Vatican Blocks Caroline Kennedy Appointment As US Ambassador: Report

Daily Telegraph:

Vatican sources told Il Giornale that their support for abortion disqualified Ms Kennedy and other Roman Catholics President Barack Obama had been seeking to appoint.

Read the whole story: Daily Telegraph

Comments

[Eskay]

Surely, since we do not limit our choice of ambassadors by the religious preference of the host country, we should stop selecting Catholic candidates. Let's instead submit a non-Catholic person to be the ambassador to the Vatican, maybe a noted American who is Jewish, for example. Let the Vatican-- staffed by men who are likely sons of former blackshirts and brownshirts-- decide on how best to respond.

If no better candidate is found, how about former Secretary of State Albright. After all, her Jewish parents fled Germany during the Nazi era.

[patianneb]

If the Vatican doesn't want an American ambassador chosen by the President, fine. We have better uses for the money.
Besides, I strongly object to our caring about diplomatic relations with a city/state/entity whose leader protects and advances pedophiles, Nazi sympathizers and others of truly questionable BEHAVIOR.
Separation of church and state, period.

[muypolitico]

The vitriol this bit of news has generated here is remarkable.

Liberals often complained about the Bush administration's unwillingness to respect the legitimate interests of other states. The Bush gov. was lambasted for trying shove its values on other societies and countries.

How ironic that now liberal posters here in HP want practice the same thing, except this time it is shoving things down the Vatican's throat. The actors may be different, but the gist of the policy is the same.

[jwcmass]

I think what you fail to understand is that this is the US ambassador to the Vatican, not the other way around (the Papal nuncio to the US)

If the US tried to interfere with THAT choice, your "outrage" would be justifed.

But essentially, the Vaticanis trying to tell the US who should be representing US interests to the Vatican.

It would be like telling the Jordanians that their ambassador is unacceptable because he is Muslim.

The other thing you fail to realize is just how dependent the Vatican is on US CAtholic donations just to survive.



THe one being arrogant here isn't the US-- it's the Vatican.

They did the same thing a year or two ago with a French ambassador who was gay.

No protests, though with the regimes in Central America in the eighties that murdered priests and nuns, and even an archbishop.

Funny that.

[muypolitico]

I guess I did not make my point clear. While Bush and his cronies were in power, liberals complained about the need to make the U.S. respectful of international law again. Well, as per IL, the receiving state can turn down a ambassador for any reason with no obligation to explain.

It does not matter whether the rejection is based on substantive criteria or on a trivial one (e.g. disliking the persons haircut), it is a discretion the belongs solely to the receiving state.

We can agree all you want on how the Vatican is stuck in the past and has arcane positions on things like condoms. But it does not change the fact that it has, like any other country, a legal prerogative pertaining to the acceptance or rejection of another state's appointed ambassador.

[billygore2000]

Make her the ambassador to Italy and let her thumb her nose at the Vatican.

[Cogs]

I'll bet they are more than willing to take money from the Kennedy family.

[joewalters]

America does not answer to the Pope!

[jwcmass]

More importantly, one nation doesn't get to tell other nations who their ambassadors can and cannpt be and attempt to dictate foreign policy.

Perhaps a quiet word in the ear of the nuncio (the Vatican's word for ambassador) about revoking tas-exempt status for religious affiliations that interfere in the inner workings of the US government just might get their attention.

Oh, and I repeat what I said earlier, I would send a survivor of cleical child sexual abuse-- send THEM a not so subtle message-- and if no one is availabe, send them someone like Christopher Hitchens or Bill Maher-- They'll be bending over backwards to get Caroline Kennedy.

And in the meantime--the papal nuncio should be asked to leave the US.

I don't remember reading about them rejecting an ambassador from Nazi Germany. (or even speaking out publicly against the genocide against the Jews.)

[choadius]

Although I can see the humor in nominating an Ambassador to the Holy See that is not pro-life, the Vatican is simply not going to accept them. Bill Clinton managed to find a pro-life Democrat for this position twice.

[jwcmass]

While I don't think it would be productive to do this (and I happen to be pro-life, although if I were President, I could make a big fuss about having an ambassador fro the Vatican who agreed to having women as priests and a married clergy, etc.)--

Obama would well be within his rights to reciprocate and insist on a Nuncio from the Vatica who was pro-choice, and reject one that was not. Sauce for the goose is spice for the gander, after all.

The Vatican would howl if the shoew were on the other foot, but they REALLY couldn't complain could they. After all, the US would simply be doing the exact same thing the Vatican is doing.

The Vatican has already donme this to France (their ambassador was homosexual).

It's only a matter of time before SOME nation reacts in this manner.

It will be interesting to see how they react.

They don't seem to realize that the days when they can control how people think are over.

[Pulemerci]

Is this really news? The Church is against abortion. Ms. Kennedy is pro-abortion. She is a poor choice for this post.

[jwcmass]

First, How does anyone know exactly what Ms. Kennedy's position is? Unless she has stted it publicly (I may have missed it).

She hasn't cast a vote on it in any legislative body, since she hasn't been in one-- and one can't just assume she was supporting Obama BECAUSE he is pro-choice (well, I suppose the Vatican can do anything).

This is what I swould now do, were I in Obama's position-- name Caroline the Ambassador to Italy, and name one of the vitims of the scandal as Ambassador to the Vatican. Force them to have to look in the face of their own hypocrisy.

If they refuse to accept that, then leave the post vacant untilthey do, and expel the Vatican nuncio from the United States.

Two can play hardball, --the Vatican had no problem accepting an ambassador from Germany during the Nazi regime.

[swo68]

"First, How does anyone know exactly what Ms. Kennedy's position is? Unless she has stted it publicly (I may have missed it)."

Ya, you missed it. She and her staff released position information when she was making a fool of herself trying to get that senate seat. She's very pro-choice. (For the mother, anyway. She's totally against rights for unborn children.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/11/vatican-blocks-caroline-k_n_185897.html?show_comment_id=23016972#comment_23016972

[ObjectiveRealist]

We disagree with many countries about a great number of subjects but we have diplomatic relations with most of them.

Biology is clear: first trimester abortions cause no suffering to the brainless entity removed. I think the Vatican has overestimated the Biblical support for their queer position on that procedure, which was common in that and many other cultures for thousands of years. Like most of the choices YHWH reportedly frowned upon, punishment was rare. Why is abortion suddenly important, since the late 20th century, but as common as starvation and malnutrition still are, those forms of real, undisputed human suffering are not deemed worthy of the Vatican's ponderous wealth? The pontiff pontificates on poverty and suffering, sure, but have you ever heard of one putting his money where his mouth is?

[swo68]

"Biology is clear: first trimester abortions cause no suffering to the brainless entity removed."

First off, that "brainless entity" is human life. Second, shall we use "no suffering" as a the standard for stopping human life?

[ObjectiveRealist]

1. Turned Christ's teachings of peace into a tool to enforce cultural hegemony within the Roman military empire
2. The Crusades
3. The Inquisition
4. Now, opposition to medical research on embryos, without even firm _theological_ support.

Does the Catholic Church perceive the Bush family as a challenge to its own status as most colossal force for evil in human history?

[billygore2000]

I don't know what it is you are having this morning, but I wouldn't mind some, myself.

[ObjectiveRealist]

I'll give you a hint. It would cost you about $150. What do you suppose it is?

[ObjectiveRealist]

A mass of undifferentiated cells is _not_ a life.

[Kanye East]

if you notice, all those are linked by wh.ite people. and i'm sure a little wh.itey like you missed that.

[billygore2000]

ObjectiveRealist may not be little or white and could be transgendered. And if you are under the illusion human history was better in Asia or Africa or the Americas, say, around 1216 CE, please seek professional help.

[NevaforLeadership]

If Caroline wants to be an ambassador, I would like to see her appointed to a country of significance; not the Vatican, the only claim to fame of which is being a "country" that collects international taxes via all those collection plates.

Despite her grandfather's dodgy record there, maybe the Court of St. James.

Her talents would be wasted in a "country" that survives by proselytizing archaic, myths and rules and regulations from primitive paganism.

[billygore2000]

You and the pope both come down too hard on paganism. After all, this language we speak came from pagans. And for that matter, who isn't the descendant of pagans?

[alanposting]

could it be, cause she is not into little boys.?

[Liberalforsure]

Honestly, who cares what the Vatican thinks? They need to get their own pediopholic house in order first!

[Warmglobe]

I think it's because "You Know" means something bad in Italian

[ObjectiveRealist]

As Italian and Spanish both derive from Latin, my guess is that it sounds like "uno" which would be a problem for self-styled monotheists whose holy book of words opens with creation of the universe by a council (of elohim, IIRC) referring to themselves with the Hebrew plural personal pronoun, "in our image we created people" (gender-neutral Hebrew pronoun for "mankind" by the way). The real Bible is not nearly as patriarchal as the Roman Catholics mistranslated it.

[billygore2000]

Thank you for your enjoyable outburst of linguistic knowledge.

[noleftturns]

poor little rich girl. no one wants to play with our princess kennedy

[cgk]

why so nasty?

she's got tons of accomplishments to her name, has worked tireless for many causes, is a lawyer, has written many books. And you have done.... what?

also - the vatican not wanting to "play" with you (your words) is probably an honor these mdays.

Again, why so nasty?

[NevaforLeadership]

Sounds as if you have a jealousy issue you need to work through.

[jwcmass]

Look, I have no association with the Kennedys, and have never met Caroline.

BUT, to refer to someone as "princess" who's had to endure losing her father (in a very public way--that is constantly brought up) the way she did (and at the age of 6) --then an uncle (the same way).

While an adult, she still lost her mother at a young age, and then had to endure her brother's death -- also tragically young.

All that isn't worth ANY amount of money to me, thank you very much.

Hell of a way to "spoil" a child (and young adult) .

I'm not saying she merits a position in office, but for crying aout loud, let's cut out the name-calling.

There aren't many people who have endured what she has had to

Pray no one in your family ever has to.

[kinoptikation]

She needs to start FROM SCRATCH if she plans to make it into the political realm... name will no longer hack it

[cgk]

enough already. She has done plenty.

Do you know anything about ambassadorships? Lots of private citizens get roles in such positions as the vatica, great Britain, etc

Get that enormous chip off your shoulder and go do something with your life. She has done plenty (including being very helpful in getting Obama elected)

[alanposting]

Oh I get it, you mean like Palin.