Conyers, Sanchez, Paul: Obama Torture Decision Wrong (AUDIO)

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04/17/09 01:32 PM

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Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.), chair of a judiciary subcommittee that has been investigating Bush Administration misdeeds since Democrats took control of Congress, is disappointed in President Obama's decision not to prosecute CIA officials who tortured detainees, as long as the torture was deemed legal at the time by the White House.

"I still believe that we need to hold people accountable when they break the law and I personally would have liked to have seen some accountability for the actions of people in the last administration," Sanchez said Friday on the Bill Press Show.

"I know it's a difficult line to walk, but I don't think that you become a better democracy or stronger democracy by ignoring these kinds of things," she said.

Listen:

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) also told Press he disagreed with Obama's decision, saying that he was sure a number of Obama supporters would be disappointed with the president. (Perhaps he's been reading the HuffPost comments section.)

"That's endorsing disobedience to the law," he said. "I think some of the people who helped Obama get into office might be a little bit disappointed. And they might be disappointed about Afghanistan and marijuana laws and state secret laws and not prosecuting people."

Listen:

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Paul said such decisions undermine the point of an election. "If it gets fuzzy in any way, a new administration ought to at least investigate and find out -- let us know what really happened. That's the purpose of switching administrations; to clean house and at least let us know what happened. When policies don't change and the potential crimes that were committed aren't even looked into seriously, I think that gives a lot of disenchantment to the people who have wanted some change."

UPDATE: Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich.) agrees:

"As Americans digest the awful revelations in the Bush-era OLC opinions, our nation faces a critical choice - what will we do to ensure that abuses like those described in these memos are never again ordered by our leaders or justified by our lawyers? To me, the answer is obvious. We must have a full investigation of the circumstances under which these torture methods were created, approved, and implemented, preferably by an independent commission as I previously proposed. And if our leaders are found to have violated the strict laws against torture, either by ordering these techniques without proper legal authority or by knowingly crafting legal fictions to justify the torture, they should be criminally prosecuted. It is simply obvious that, if there is no accountability when wrongdoing is exposed, future violations will not be deterred.

"I believe a Commission is the best forum to resolve the difficult issues raised by the ever-increasing documentary record of Bush Administration interrogation abuses. To take just one example, today two former Bush Administration officials again took to the papers to justify these practices by claiming that the interrogation of Abu Zubaydeh had been a clear success and had led to the disruption of terrorist plots. Yet just two weeks ago, former Bush Administration officials who monitored this interrogation told reporters that 'not a single significant plot was foiled' as a result. The American people deserve a non-partisan answer to such fundamental questions.

"Finally, I do not understand the statements by the President and the Attorney General yesterday on the issue of potential prosecutions to address the senior officials and government attorneys who crafted and approved these programs. Further, yesterday's statements did not address the legality of any conduct that exceeded even the minimal boundaries established by the OLC memos, or any interrogations that occurred before legal guidance was provided."

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Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.), chair of a judiciary subcommittee that has been investigating Bush Administration misdeeds since Democrats took control of Congress, is disappointed in President Obama's...
Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.), chair of a judiciary subcommittee that has been investigating Bush Administration misdeeds since Democrats took control of Congress, is disappointed in President Obama's...
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- greginwva I'm a Fan of greginwva 2 fans permalink
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What do the Independents or center of the road people think?Those are the people who decide who sits in the oval office.My guess is,they are tired of the ugly politics weve seen for at least the last 16 years.I know im tired of the wacko's on both sides.The far left of my party cheers Spain for grandstanding on this issue while McCain in SC over the summer was met by silence when he told a group at a GOP forum that we should never torture.We no longer torture.Th­ats good enough for me.I dont give a fiddly what the rest of the world thinks about what a scared president did to a couple dozen people,including people who helped to kill or wanted to kill Americans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 04/17/2009
- zelduh I'm a Fan of zelduh 3 fans permalink
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What about the innocent people that the US tortured? Did you think about them at all?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/17/2009
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The Congress could not get Carl Rove to honor a subpoena! Where was the anger and outrage! Now Bush is gone and the cowards crawl out of the darkness. Pres. O has been left a terrible mess, and I believe he is trying to do what is expedient and keep a level of calm in the country. I can only imagine 24 hour news coverage of Bush, Rove and the CIA...depr­essing is an under-statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 04/17/2009
- gaja I'm a Fan of gaja 13 fans permalink
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I support Obama, but he's wrong on this count. I hope Congress stands up and prosecutes these people. What do you think would have happened if the GOP had won the election? We're not just talking about Obama's administration - we're talking about America's future. Bush and Cheney willingly admit that the military did wide sweeps of people in the area. A lot of innocent people were tortured and died. Now Dick's runnin around still trying to convince people that they got "intelligence" from their efforts. He needs to be prosecuted and every one of those officials and contractors who knew they were breaking the law and went ahead anyway - need to go to jail. Otherwise, we could get much worse next time around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 04/17/2009
- Melizzy I'm a Fan of Melizzy 18 fans permalink

If the Republicans had a brain, they would consider going after this full throttle to distance themselves from Bush and Cheney. This will forever be hung around their necks if they don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/17/2009
- gbrooks I'm a Fan of gbrooks 74 fans permalink
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If Obama won't do it, can't we the people do it?

If we can't rely on our elected representatives to do the right thing, why can't we do something about it? That is something that I would donate to given it's tremendous importance in the future of our country in so many ways. Consider the fact that you'd have most of the people who voted for Obama on board and that I could easily rally the Ron Paul grassroots, we hated what that administration did just as much as you guys.

I refuse to believe that we have to rely on the gov't to do something about this. I'm hardly a legal scholar, but there's got to be some people out there who know how we can go about this.

Who knows Obama might be afraid of Cheney's roving gangs or something.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 04/17/2009
- harriscrl3 I'm a Fan of harriscrl3 191 fans permalink

No he simply doesnt want low morale and distraction in the intelligence community. We are still at war. Intelligence folks you dont just go out and bring in new ones you need them focus on their job not worried they are going to be tried for war crimes. As far as prosecuting Bush and Cheney Obama has made no definitive statement on that score all he said is I prefer to look forward not back. That doesnt mean if evidence that cannot be ignored come up he wont appoint a special prosecutor this is about the people in the intelligence community.

Carol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 04/17/2009
- TEHelms I'm a Fan of TEHelms 11 fans permalink

I have now emailed both my Senators, my Congressman and the President to appoint a special prosecutor to raise this investigation above the political level and follow the evidence to where it leads...ev­en to President Bush. No man is above the law and certainly laws were broken.

I understand why Obama is reluctant to prosecute CIA agents since they reached out to their superiors and in turn they went to the Justice Department where they were cleared by...(excu­se my pun) the tortured language of the Bush attorneys. Now we even have one of those attorneys, Bibby, as a Federal Judge.

But, this has to be followed as history will not be kind to anyone who condoned, approved, wrote or excused torture by agents of this country.

WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVES AND THE WHITE HOUSE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 04/17/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 221 fans permalink

Other than perhaps Ron Paul, no Rushpublican has a leg to stand on, after cheerleading t0rture for years. We Democrats need to hold Obama's feet to the fire to ensure that justice is done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/17/2009
- cactusgal I'm a Fan of cactusgal 110 fans permalink

Yes indeed, Grunty. To do anything less would make us Rethuglicans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/17/2009

exactly!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 04/17/2009
- Gumby123 I'm a Fan of Gumby123 15 fans permalink
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The thing is, I would not doubt that there's some Democrats who would get burned along with the Repubs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/17/2009
- cactusgal I'm a Fan of cactusgal 110 fans permalink

Let the sh*its fall where they may

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 04/17/2009
- Gumby123 I'm a Fan of Gumby123 15 fans permalink
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If they did go through with an investigation, not only would there be trouble for the leaders in the Bush admin but also for many in the Democratic leadership during that time. Maybe Obama shut this down because the political fallout is too great for him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/17/2009
- zelduh I'm a Fan of zelduh 3 fans permalink
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If Democrats should be caught up in it, so be it. If there is no punishment for wrongdoing, what will stop them (whether Republican or Democrat) from wrongdoing again?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/17/2009
- Gumby123 I'm a Fan of Gumby123 15 fans permalink
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Maybe that's Obama's dilemna, he's concerned about major political backlash from his own party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 04/17/2009

Great - don't worry about people being TORTURED. Worry about your political fallout.

Unbelievable.

I am so sick of politicians worrying about their own hides.

They need to DO SOMETHING.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 PM on 04/18/2009

II have writted the WH and said that with POTUS condoning torture and other horrible acts and deeds it will be very difficult for me to support him again. No matter how many good things he does this is one we will not forget. And the world will see again that the good old US of A talks out of both sides of the mouth. We will NEVER have credibility again. Sad day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/17/2009
- impik I'm a Fan of impik 19 fans permalink
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Let me see: He'll fix the economy, fix the health care system, bring the troops back from Iraq, invest in education and energy, close Guantanamo and ban torture, and you won't vote for his re-election? I almost envy you. I'm sure that whatever Republican president that you and the likes of you will sit in The White House, will be much better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/17/2009
- lostinNJ1 I'm a Fan of lostinNJ1 3 fans permalink
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We are first and foremost a nation of laws. Without that, nothing else matters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 04/17/2009
- dems08 I'm a Fan of dems08 184 fans permalink
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Well said impik!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 04/17/2009
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 63 fans permalink
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You are ASSUMING that he's going to accomplish all of that stuff. Just like I was ASSUMING that he was going to try to enforce the law. I was evidently wrong. Why are you so sure you are right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 04/17/2009

He doesn't condone torture. We are upset that he is not prosecuting those responsible. Are these the same thing to you? Just curious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 04/17/2009

What's the difference? Letting someone get by with it versus condoning it?

If you let a murderer get by with murder, are you not condoning it? If you let a thief get by with robbing someone, is it not condoning it?

Definition of condone - excuse: excuse, overlook, or make allowances for; be lenient with; "excuse someone's behavior"; "She condoned her husband's occasional infidelities"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

By not prosecuting or taking a strong stand against torturing human beings, you excuse it, overlook it, make allowances for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 04/18/2009
- voltage356 I'm a Fan of voltage356 17 fans permalink
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If congress feels this way about it, then issue Subpoenas to hauled them in. What did the people send you there for a tea party get off your behind and do the people business, and stop depending on President Obama to do your jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/17/2009
- ljc I'm a Fan of ljc 110 fans permalink

Congrss issue subpoenas? Ha. Been there, done that. Bush people don't show up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 04/17/2009
- voltage356 I'm a Fan of voltage356 17 fans permalink
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LOL that's the point congress wants some else to do their work for them. Why are they even there? Oh MONEY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 04/17/2009
- impik I'm a Fan of impik 19 fans permalink
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"And they might be disappointed about Afghanistan and marijuana laws and state secret laws and not prosecuting people".

1. Obama was clear during his campaign that he'll do exactly what he's doing in Afghanistan. Anyone who's disappointed, wasn't listening.
2. Obama never promised to change marijuana laws. Anyone who's disappointed, wasn't listening.
3. When anyone of his critics now will sit in his chair and read the intelligence briefing he's reading every day - Then we'll see how righteous they will all be and how easy it will be for them to just throw CIA agents under the bus, especially when they were following orders from the president and the justice department.
5. Obama banned these terrible methods in his first or second day in office, he ordered the closing of Guantanamo, and he released those horrifying memos for the world to see - something that no other president would even dream to do. Yet, his biggest supporters give him very little credit for all that.

If his supporters will continue to attack him after almost every move, easily forgetting all the great things he already done in only 90 days - In four years they will find themselves with some Republican a@@ as president and they will have no one to blame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/17/2009
- ljc I'm a Fan of ljc 110 fans permalink

Great comment. I agree 100%. President Obama knows what he is doing. This isn't over yet. Why didn't Congress investigate this before. They knew all about it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/17/2009

1 Obama was clear about making Afghanistan a priority, but he was not clear about the big increase in war on Pakistan.

2 Hmmmmmmmmmm?
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/17/225516/066

3 Nuremberg defense, Bush talking point and lame rationalization. Torture is wrong, we all know that.

4 This point is so top secret, it has been redacted by the Obama justice department­.....for your protection.

5 The ACLU fought tooth and nail for this PARTIAL release, Obama fought back, and we the people won a small victory. As for GITMO....
http://uk.reuters.com/article/burningIssues/idUKTRE51O3TB20090225

Maybe it is time we all started thinking well beyond the false two party trap, so we don't end up with some a@@ who will support torture and war, against the will of the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 04/17/2009

Wow, nice response Snuffleupagus. Looks like you did your research.

I especially like this idea: Maybe it is time we all started thinking well beyond the false two party trap, so we don't end up with some a@@ who will support torture and war, against the will of the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 04/18/2009

So why didn't Paul and Sanchez step up to the plate when all this was going down on their watch?

Of course, as usual they want someone else to carry the ball so that their hands remain clean. I get so sick of others demanding others to do something while they do NOTHING!

Anyone thinking this is an easy fight are not being honest with themselves. President Obama has being fighting an uphill battle for everything he has asked for, from the recovery bill to his budget and most of the fight have been coming from his own party (btw we all knew Republicans would be against anything the President put on the table).

As some have said they don't work for the Executive Branch and can do what they want --- so have at it! Get off your arses and have Congress do it's job!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 04/17/2009

agreed!!!

perhaps the pres. is looking to the general public for a go-ahead? sadly, i don't think many americans care right now with everything else that's going on. wasn't there a poll saying that

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/17/2009
- poiuyty I'm a Fan of poiuyty 3 fans permalink

Actually, Ron Paul voted against just about everything Bush wanted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 04/17/2009

Ron Paul has been talking about this a long time - the people in Congress would not listen. Very sad.

"What if we finally decide that torture, even if called enhanced interrogation techniques, is self-destructive and produces no useful information and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0I9t11_dGw

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 04/18/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 167 fans permalink

Agreed. At the VERY LEAST we need a truth commission to uncover who the torturers and their helpers were. And we need to get these people out of Government. Period.

IMHO we need to prosecute. "I was following orders!" just doesn't cut it for some crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 04/17/2009
- Whinger I'm a Fan of Whinger 46 fans permalink
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Only cowards hide behind weasel words!

You're not the man I thought you were President Obama, your decision is plain wrong!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 04/17/2009

Mr. President, you MUST at the very least talk to constitutional scholars from both parties to determine that the things that Bush Admin did to the constitution should be investigated and charged.

You cannot ignore this. It is not about retribution, it is about criminal activities that were committed by the President and his staff. If you do not go after them, it will happen again in the future. We must stop it now.

Please turn it over to eric Holder for examination and or read what many scholars have said about the criminal matters and trashing of the constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 04/17/2009
- zelduh I'm a Fan of zelduh 3 fans permalink
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It is not about retribution (as the president said it); it is about punishment. If we do not punish the wrongdoers, then we gave them permission to do these things in our name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 04/17/2009
- bbbear I'm a Fan of bbbear 23 fans permalink
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Exactly! However, since Obama taught constitutional law he knows what must be done...and he knows not following the dictates of the rule of law is criminal behavior..­. Yet he, like Dubya, Nixon, Reagan, et al, seem to believe the POTUS is not only above the law, but that he makes the law....
Obama's grandmother warned him to keep Ego at bay. But Alas, methinks Obama has failed to keep EGO out of his equation..­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 04/17/2009
- MJJM I'm a Fan of MJJM 6 fans permalink

How come Congress cannot get Rove to show up???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 04/17/2009
- obamagal I'm a Fan of obamagal 50 fans permalink
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I found the title to be somewhat misleading. Sanchez and Conyers are democrats. The only republican is Ron Paul. He's certainly not mainstream republican (as it is defined today) and he was against the war.

Now if someone like Boehner or Pawlenty had made a statement in support of prosecution, then the heading would have been appropriate, imo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 04/17/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 221 fans permalink

[Now if someone like Boehner or Pawlenty had made a statement in support of prosecution]

But that would never happen, as they spend years cheerleading t0rture.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 04/17/2009

Hardly likely any Republican who went along with Bush is going to support Prosecution since they would be advocating charges against themselves. But then, moral indignation isn't a strong suit of members of the GOP. Their only concerns are that they may be required to give up a few more dollars of their ill gotten gains for taxes or that Companies will be regulated again. Neither of which should be of concern to anyone making less than $250,000.0­0

The really hilarious part was, only about 1 in a hundred had any idea of what the original Boston Tea Party was all about. They dumped the tea into Boston Harbor in protest against the British East India Company who was being given hugh corporate tax cuts that enabled them to put smaller companies out of business We switched to coffee. Sort of a 1773 version of Goldman Sachs, etc.

So, what are all you poor GOPers gonna do? Give up Police? Decent roads? Schools? etc.? Well, if you don't want those making $250,000+ (Since they have been getting cuts in Taxes for Decades, while people making less than that have had ours raised, time after time) to have to pay a few dollars more in Taxes, then I guess you will have to throw the Police, Decent Roads, Schools, etc., in the Boston Harbor because the poor people in this country are so tapped out giving to the rich that we just can't afford it anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 04/17/2009

Torture was done under the now infamous "USA Patriot Act", in Title VIII: Terrorism criminal law.

Find out who voted for it here: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml

Scary, isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 04/18/2009
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If they tortured people unlawfully, they should be prosecuted.

People must be held accountable.


It sends a bad message to do otherwise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 04/17/2009
- ljc I'm a Fan of ljc 110 fans permalink

Is there lawful torture?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 04/17/2009
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