Diplomat Claims Bush White House Destroyed His Memo Opposing Torture (VIDEO)

Philip Zelikow, a longtime diplomat who worked as counselor to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and was the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, has been forthright in his opposition to the harsh interrogation techniques used under the Bush administration.

Zelikow disagreed with the legal reasoning employed by Bush's Office of Legal Counsel to justify the use of harsh interrogation techniques such as waterboarding. And he claims that copies of a memo he circulated to detail his opposing views were destroyed by the White House.

Writing in Foreign Policy's Shadow Government blog, Zelikow details:

"At the time, in 2005, I circulated an opposing view of the legal reasoning. My bureaucratic position, as counselor to the secretary of state, didn't entitle me to offer a legal opinion. But I felt obliged to put an alternative view in front of my colleagues at other agencies, warning them that other lawyers (and judges) might find the OLC views unsustainable. My colleagues were entitled to ignore my views. They did more than that: The White House attempted to collect and destroy all copies of my memo. I expect that one or two are still at least in the State Department's archives."

He also described his views in an interview with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow:

ZELIKOW: Many years earlier when I had been a law student and had been a practicing lawyer, I had worked, actually, on issues of treatment of prisoners and that whole body of constitutional law. So when I saw the memoranda, I was struck by the fact that, even aside from the policy problems, the legal reasoning seemed deeply unsound to me, and I wasn't sure that the president and his advisers understood just how potentially questionable and unreasonable many lawyers and judges would find this reasoning. And so, I thought it was important to just say, hey, there is another view here of this law, and a lot of people would regard the views in these memos as, to say the least, outliers...

It was my job to fight this with every ounce of energy at my disposal, using the legal means in front of me. Frankly, that's the same way they should have approached their job, is work within the institutions you've got, the institutions our country gives you.

They weren't committing an act of obstruction of justice by trying to destroy copies of the memos, and they did not succeed in destroying copies -- all the copies of these memos. Just because they disagree with an alternative view doesn't mean that my view was right, but it was important to register the fact that, hey, folks need to understand, if they didn't already, a lot of lawyers might believe that this is a radical, indefensible, unreasonable interpretation of the relevant law.

They heard that argument. They chose to move on. We continued the fight to change the policy. And ultimately did change the policy, with help from Congress and the courts.

WATCH THE INTERVIEW:

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Comments

[Beninn]

I suspect that this is 'Poppy' Bush's doing, and that a deal has been cut with the present administration and the establishment masters.

The deal is to separate the son from Cheney, lay it all at Cheney's doorstep. Cheney's not long for this earth anyway, given his health.

It sure would explain the reunion of Bushies in Dallas last week (a 'reunion' after 90 days out of power, and no Cheney or his acolytes?) and the (cough) debate ("a moderated 2-hour amicable conversation") George W. Bush is to have with Bill Clinton in Toronto next month, which to me looks like a representative of the Ex-Presidents' Club welcoming its newest member into the fold, legitimizing him as someone with gravitas (among the topics for conversation, "What challenges do you see facing us in the years to come?").

It looks to me like Obama and Democrats have decided to let Bush walk, give the people some show trials and hearings, prosecute mid-level grunts like Bybee and Yoo (only if necessary, if the unrest grows), and imply that Cheney was the mastermind behind it all, because he'll certainly be dead sooner rather than later.

[Beninn]

Philip Zelikow is no 'diplomat'; he's a 'fixer'. He's 'Michael Clayton' (George Clooney). Unlike the fictional 'Michael Clayton' who did it for money, Zelikow did it because he is a "true believer".

Zelikow supported the war and occupation of Iraq, but for reasons never put forth by the Bush administration: That Saddam was going to nuke Israel. http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23083

Zelikow provided PNAC with the means to achieve its ends. http://www.hks.harvard.edu/visions/publication/terrorism.htm

When Zelkow witnessed it going wrinkly, that a desperate Bush administration authorized the use of torture to find a connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein when no WMDS were found, no nukes, no nothing, Zelikow wrote a memo objecting to the OLC's memos that torture was legal. It was a CYA-maneuver, should news of the torture ever come out and should the OLC's memos ever get out and become a problem. I see the retrieval and destruction of all copies of the memo as an "Oh no you don't, Zelikow; we're all in this together. If we go down, you go down, too".

[oregonrain]

Let me guess , I bet as a child , he used the "dog ate my homework" excuse too .

[cocolola]

His opposition to torture is vital. It's inconceivable that he doesn't have a single copy of the document stashed away.

[Cinnamonape]

Gotta be on his computer hard drive...or in his sent mail files. Or even in his printer memory. Unless he intyentionally trashed all his documents by destroying his hard drive it's not that easy top make the "doc" go away.

I also wonder if he realizes that he was destroying a mandatoril­y-preserva­ble "Presidential Record". When Sandy Berger tried this stuff (destroying his own notes of a meeting that had been archived) he was heavily fined and lost his Security Clearance and convicted of a misdemeanor. Perhaps whoever ordered the destruction wanted to use this as a hammer over Zelikow's head...but iot was a crime ordering it, as well. Who ordered the destruction, who received the memos, who gave them back for destruction-rather than preservation?

[hip dibler]

Hey republicans,

tell me again how great the bush admin. was, i forget.

[nettyspagetti]

At least someone in the Boosh admin has a conscience

[twintwine]

Or Zelikow knows how to maneuver.

[Brookyln35street]

OUTRAGEOUS!!!! Wow, the former VP, should not being saying anything. He is strong and wrong.

out⋅ra⋅geous
 
–adjective
1. of the nature of or involving gross injury or wrong: an outrageous slander.
2. grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency: outrageous behavior; an outrageous remark.
3. passing reasonable bounds; intolerable or shocking: an outrageous price.
4. violent in action or temper.
5. highly unusual or unconventional; extravagant; remarkable: a child of the most outrageous precocity; a fancy dive performed with outrageous ease.

[LinkSync]

While I applaud the efforts Mr. Zelikow made to curtail the concept that torture was in someway legal, I also wonder at his lack of any further more public action.

Perhaps he didn't realize that "legal" torture is completely against everything the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, require of us all as citizens of a nation dedicated to the proposition that all living people enjoy those rights.
For a lawyer in his position I find that to be unlikely though I will admit it is possible he didn’t realize the true import obtained by those documents he saw and countered with his own.

Public officials, especially those sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution must rise to the Higher Standard required of each of us by our founding documents.

That after all is the first function of any such official.
And really it is the first function of any citizen.

To act counter too our founding documents for any reason is to be a traitor.
This then easily obtains the status of High Crimes.

To know of such by the very officials we all depend upon to defend our Constitution as a first function and not make it public is to me itself a kind of crime, perhaps a misdemeanor.

Perhaps Mr. Zelikow knows this in his heart which is why he blinked as he did at certain points in the interview?

[Bloggerrogr]

I saw the interview as I'm certain you did also. I take him at his word. He is one of the quiet, strong type who persevere, and this makes the outrage even more pointed.

For What It's Worth.

[twintwine]

His personality type based on his interview performance does not reveal fact. It's not bad to interpret one's personality, but this is turning out to be a question of justice, where interpretation of evidence needs to play a central role.

[Beninn]

Philip Zelikow is a 'fixer'. He's 'Michael Clayton' (George Clooney). Unlike the fictional 'Michael Clayton' who did it for money, Zelikow did it because he is a "true believer".

Zelikow supported the war and occupation of Iraq, but for reasons never put forth by the Bush administration: That Saddam was going to nuke Israel. http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23083

Zelikow provided PNAC with the means to achieve its ends. http://www.hks.harvard.edu/visions/publication/terrorism.htm

When Zelkow witnessed it going wrinkly, that a desperate Bush administration authorized the use of torture to find a connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein when no WMDS were found, no nukes, no nothing, Zelikow wrote a memo objecting to the OLC's memos that torture was legal. It was a CYA-maneuver, should news of the torture ever come out and should the OLC's memos ever get out and become a problem. I see the retrieval and destruction of all copies of the memo as an "Oh no you don't, Zelikow; we're all in this together. If we go down, you go down, too".

[Eidolas]

Did he handwrite his opinion? No saved drafts, eh?

[eagleclaw]

This is the same clown who sabotaged the 9/11 Commission Report.

He is just trying to save his ass from the frying pan. He is in this up to his eyeballs.

Destroyed all copies???? Yeah right.

[gladys46]

Republicans are defending t o r t ure !!!

[KillBillV2]

The s_h!t is really hittiing the fan now, huh repubs?


Heh!

[gladys46]

What's very unfortunate for us, for our entire nation is that they did this sh^t in our names !!!

[sadsac]

Headline should read, "Dude...Why the Long Face?".

[eptfan]

Yes, as Bob Creamer argues in his post today, the use of torture must be banned. There needs to be a clear rule prohibiting it. But more is needed. Rules are not enough. Additionally, and this is where Zelikow's article and experience become critical, there needs to be in place systems, "institutions" as economists use the term, structures, or practices that make it extremely difficult for a proposal such as " let's try ... waterboarding..." to work its way through the chain or process of decision-making. There needs to be an internal filter that catches suggestions that conflict with basic norms.

Zelikow is the co-author of perhaps the best book on high level governmental policy making - Philip D. Zelikow and Graham T. Allison, Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis. Using it as a template to read and understand books like Mayer's The Dark Side, or Sands' Torture Team provides insights that confirm the wisdom of James Harrington way back in the 17th century in his masterpiece Oceana: “’Give us good men and they will make us good laws’ is the maxim of a demagogue. . .but ‘give us good orders (structures), and they will make us good men’ is the maxim of a legislator and the most infallible in politics.”

[rwext]

You shouldn't use Bob Cramer, The criminal husband of whackjob Jan Schakowsky as a credible reference any more than Drew Peterson as head of a women's shelter

[dwillisno1]

What does Creamer's credibility have to do with the argument? He is not talking about data or information where he requires you to trust his credibility. Argue with his idea or be quiet. BTW, I always find more credibility when people who make non credible remarks about others, spell their names correctly.

[Tomlastliberalleft]

This is a great example of life imitating art. Anybody out there remember a character Marty Short use to do on SNL? I’ll eat my own hat if this guy is not “Nathan Thurm.”

[Dr. Sam]

DICK CHENEY’S DAMAGE TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY—WHAT EVERYONE SEEMS TO HAVE MISSED
Beyond the question of release of classified intelligence documents by the Obama administration, there is a related issue everyone seems to have missed—Dick Cheney’s irreparable damage to our national security. Cheney extols the virtue of tortue as a means of obtaining needed information—a kind of end justifies the means argument. After all said and done, we will at some point try to bring many of these detainees to American justice. That, indeed, has created an undenyable dilemma for the Obama administration: how to bring detainees to justice without denying them a fair opportunity to defend themselves as allowed in our system of justice. Because the most damning evidence against them might have been obtained by duress and torture, would such evidence be admissible in a credible court system? If they are not, would you let these criminals go free? Even the little information that might have been obtained would prove useless under the strict rules of American jurisprudence. The Republican approach is to keep detainees at Gitmo indefinitely. Such an approach would keep the dark clouds of the Bush-Cheney years continually hanging over our head like the mythical sword of Darmocles. I feel able to argue that torture of detainees has not only sullied our reputation abroad but has made America less secure!

[gladys46]

That man has crippled our system of justice ... his bottom line seems to be no due process, to r ture any suspect and if they live though it ... let them eat cake !!! If they live, what judge can possibly accept confessions, etc obtained from a t o r tured person! Just how credible could such info derived therefrom be !?? What message does this send to our nation's law enforcement agencies ... beat it out of them and hope the doctors who mend them back together keeps silent !

This is all absurd & unfortunate !