Obama Legal Team Wants Defendants' Rights Limited

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MARK SHERMAN | April 23, 2009 08:29 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule long-standing law that stops police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, another stark example of the White House seeking to limit rather than expand rights.

The administration's action _ and several others _ have disappointed civil rights and civil liberties groups that expected President Barack Obama to reverse the policies of his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush, after the Democrat's call for change during the 2008 campaign.

Since taking office, Obama has drawn criticism for backing the continued imprisonment of enemy combatants in Afghanistan without trial, invoking the "state secrets" privilege to avoid releasing information in lawsuits and limiting the rights of prisoners to test genetic evidence used to convict them.

The case at issue is Michigan v. Jackson, in which the Supreme Court said in 1986 that police may not initiate questioning of a defendant who has a lawyer or has asked for one, unless the attorney is present. The decision applies even to defendants who agree to talk to the authorities without their lawyers.

Anything police learn through such questioning cannot be used against the defendant at trial. The opinion was written by Justice John Paul Stevens, the only current justice who was on the court at the time.

The justices could decide as early as Friday whether they want to hear arguments on the issue as they wrestle with an ongoing case from Louisiana that involves police questioning of an indigent defendant that led to a murder confession and a death sentence.

The Justice Department, in a brief signed by Solicitor General Elena Kagan, said the 1986 decision "serves no real purpose" and offers only "meager benefits." The government said defendants who don't wish to talk to police don't have to and that officers must respect that decision. But it said there is no reason a defendant who wants to should not be able to respond to officers' questions.

At the same time, the administration acknowledges that the decision "only occasionally prevents federal prosecutors from obtaining appropriate convictions."

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The administration's legal move is a reminder that Obama, who has moved from campaigning to governing, now speaks for federal prosecutors.

The administration's position assumes a level playing field, with equally savvy police and criminal suspects, lawyers on the other side of the case said. But the protection offered by the court in Stevens' 1986 opinion is especially important for vulnerable defendants, including the mentally and developmentally disabled, addicts, juveniles and the poor, the lawyers said.

"Your right to assistance of counsel can be undermined if somebody on the other side who is much more sophisticated than you are comes and talks to you and asks for information," said Sidney Rosdeitcher, a New York lawyer who advises the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University.

Stephen B. Bright, a lawyer who works with poor defendants at the Southern Center for Human Rights in Atlanta, said the administration's position "is disappointing, no question."

Bright said that poor defendants' constitutional right to a lawyer, spelled out by the high court in 1965, has been neglected in recent years. "I would hope that this administration would be doing things to shore up the right to counsel for poor people accused of crimes," said Bright, whose group joined with the Brennan Center and other rights organizations in a court filing opposing the administration's position.

Former Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson and former FBI Director William Sessions are among 19 one-time judges and prosecutors urging the court to leave the decision in place because it has been incorporated into routine police practice and establishes a rule on interrogations that is easy to follow.

Eleven states also are echoing the administration's call to overrule the 1986 case.

Justice Samuel Alito first raised the prospect of overruling the decision at arguments in January over the rights of Jesse Montejo, the Louisiana death row inmate.

Montejo's lawyer, Donald Verrilli, urged the court not to do it. Since then, Verrilli has joined the Justice Department, but played no role in the department's brief.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule long-standing law that stops police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, another stark ...
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule long-standing law that stops police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, another stark ...
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- punk I'm a Fan of punk 51 fans permalink
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In other words, Obama isn't a "progressive" or a "liberal." He's a conservative, blue-dog democrat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 04/24/2009
- rwext I'm a Fan of rwext 8 fans permalink

one could only hope

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 04/24/2009

It is in society's interest to arrest, prosecute, convict and imprison criminals.
Less intelligent criminals will be the first to be tricked by sharp detectives into giving incriminating evidence. I won't miss them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 04/24/2009
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What? And who gets to decide their guilt before due process, the king? Oh wait we got rid of him over two hundred years ago...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 04/24/2009
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 94 fans permalink

Deciding guilt has always been the job of the jury or judge, not the police.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 AM on 04/24/2009
- rjmiller I'm a Fan of rjmiller 15 fans permalink

However, it's also in society's interest to protect people from giving false confessions because they aren't intelligent enough not to. The law isn't to protect criminals from confessing, its to protect innocent people from being tricked/coerced.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 AM on 04/24/2009
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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Wow, what a self-righteous attitude. Sounds positively Republican. Are you unaware that confessions are elicited from innocent people?

Try substituting the word "people" for "criminals" in your sentence,

"Less intelligent criminals will be the first to be tricked by sharp detectives into giving incriminating evidence."

Do you favor jailing innocent people because they are unsophisticated, credulous, slow-witted, or easily manipulated?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 04/24/2009
- veracity I'm a Fan of veracity 74 fans permalink

I woke up at 6 am this morning, hoping to do a quick e-mail or two before going to work.

Then i read that Mr. obama is taking up right-where George W. bush left off - ASSAULTING the US Constitution, WHITEWASHING war crimes, and in fact taking up Bush's
in-your-face DEMANDING the 'right' to TORTURE prisoners - and keep those TORTURES _SECRET_ in the US "beyond oversight" imperial cia gulag -

- EVEN AS female Army privates have LIFETIME felony CONVICTIONS,
for FOLLOWING ORDERS to "abuse" - NOT TORTURE! - prisoners.­...

and, today's news, Mr. Obama wants to implement STASI-gest­apo-KGB-co­mmissar POLICE INTERROGATION rules.

the fact that mr. obama gets these awful ideas from his damn NEO-CON advisors just makes it all the more disgusting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 04/24/2009
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 94 fans permalink

You are yelling for no reason. Obama is trying to keep the police out of falsely accusing and tricking people into "false" confessions without the assistance of an attorney. That's all. You are sounding ridiculous for nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 04/24/2009

The way I read the article, it seems that he is doing exactly the opposite. What am I missing?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/24/2009
- Shashi0224 I'm a Fan of Shashi0224 93 fans permalink

President Obama STOPPED the torture of prisoners.
Your use of inflammatory language is unnecessary and illustrates a certain bias.

It's not mr obama....i­t's President Obama.
He doesn't have neo-con advisors.

Really, try to get some facts and keep things in a bit of perspectiv­e......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 04/24/2009
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"The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule long-standing law that stops police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, another stark example of the White House seeking to limit rather than expand rights."

I'm confused. What, exactly, does the Justice Department do? I've always thought that the Justice Department gave legal advice on cases/issues directly involving the President or legal advice on cases that deal with national security. In the case mentioned in this article, I'm confused why the Justice Department has the right to comment. It's a case going before the Supreme Court that has absolutely nothing to do with the President or anyone he is responsible for overseeing, such as those in the armed services.

I've been trying to research the Justice Department and its role in legal decisions, and I'm not finding out much. Someone here a lawyer? Can you explain to me why the Justice Department would comment on the above case?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 04/24/2009
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I am speechless. The Justice department has many different agencies; the prosecutorial arm is the United States Attorneys (federal prosecutors) that try the cases investigated by the FBI, Treasury, DEA and many other LE agencies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 04/24/2009
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Hello! I haven't seen you around for a while, Formerprosecutor. Glad to see your commenting.

Now...the agencies you mention are all federal. Right. That's what I thought the Justice Department handled. Why are they commenting on this case?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 AM on 04/24/2009
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 94 fans permalink

So limiting the police from interrogating a person without an attorney is limiting our rights? Would you like to be interrogated consistently for hours without an attorney? What rights are we losing by HAVING an attorney present?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 04/24/2009
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That is not what is happening in this issue

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 04/24/2009
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/07-1529.htm

The US has filed an "amicus curiae" or "friend of the Court" brief. The are not a party to the case, but as the government will be affected by the outcome, the government has an interest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 04/24/2009
- thirteen13 I'm a Fan of thirteen13 3 fans permalink

Oh, it's okay to look to the past when it comes to the rest of us but look forward when it comes to elected officials and lawmakers. What are they going to do with with my right to remain silent, torture me?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 AM on 04/24/2009
- StevieRae I'm a Fan of StevieRae 12 fans permalink
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Kudos for Obama. If he isn't pleasing some of his constituen­ts/influen­ce groups all of the time, he's doing the right thing!

However, like the Romans screaming death for the christians in their coliseum "sporting" events; today, too many people are walking around with a hanging rope ready to throw it over the nearest tree branch.

Getting lathered up in these types of emotional battles is always easier than dealing with more complicated issues like our economic survival, social security, healthcare.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 AM on 04/24/2009

Agreed. Consider the alternative of having McCain in the White House. We knew that our man Obama would be a captive of certain interests and would not solve all problems. True to form, he's handing the country to the bankers and impoverishing our children. But in so many other ways he's great. I'm glad I sent him money and worked for him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 AM on 04/24/2009
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So...he's less bad than the other guy? We should be satisfied in our mediocrity?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 04/24/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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I want my money back.

I cannot explain what a political COWARD I now find him to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 04/24/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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At least when the GOP ran things, we had HOPE....ma­ybe there was something better...

now, we know the truth. Average Americans will never be more than votes and tax dollars to them....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 AM on 04/24/2009
- 2garen I'm a Fan of 2garen 12 fans permalink
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This is not right, but the reason so many get all riled up and want revenge is because there are hate mongers out there that spew hate, violence. People see all the things that do not make any sense and the system tries to say this is normal. People are stressed to the max, scared and have been lied to for so long it is very difficult to see clearly.

As a Christian the reason so many are ready to throw us all under the bus just look at how many so called Christians have spewed hatred, judgement,and the opposite of Christs teachings. I am not happy that my spiritual beliefs have been hijacked.

When we look at the misinformation given about healthcare, ss and economic survival how can they really be critical thinkers when lobby groups and media control a vast amount of the informatio­n.Groups named citizens for healtcare reform and they are only fronts for insurance companies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 04/24/2009
- StevieRae I'm a Fan of StevieRae 12 fans permalink
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You're so right about media control. Sadly to our ultimate suffering is the fact that so many don't understand and appreciate how they're being manipulated.

Added, I think the Tofflers had it right. The advent of complex changes and the speed in which they would come about would render most hapless and incapable of absorbing. Survival would become one of mastering one's own level of coping.

Obviously most peoples' lens are quite narrow and we're seeing that played out in this blog.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/24/2009
- rwext I'm a Fan of rwext 8 fans permalink

follow the money.... Obama is right.... only lawyers will benefit by getting more $$$ because they would be involved when they don't have to be..... basically this would be the same type of laws we have that require union electricians to install light bulbs and extension cords , or union carpenters to set up posterboard at trade shows

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 AM on 04/24/2009
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you are so silly. 80% of criminal defendants have court appointed counsel; they get paid a meager salary, regardless of their caseload

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 04/24/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 40 fans permalink
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Morning prosecutor.

Off topic here, but I don't know about where you practiced law, but our public defenders here are pathetic. I actually feel sorry for some of my defendants because I don't feel they are receiving adequate representation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 04/24/2009
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No, court appointed lawyers for poor defendants do not get paid much anyway, and not by the defendant, its about the fundamnetal right to due process that keeps us from arbitrary prosecution by the government­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 04/24/2009
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4/24/09
8:58am
Alexandria, VA

I guess you won't understand the value of having an attorney present until you have been falsely accused of a crime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 04/24/2009
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Incorrect. Lawyers already are involved at this point -- after arraignment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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And you have to ask WHY this is such a priority for the Obama administration? what is wrong with waiting for the attorney? how does that hurt the criminal justice system?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 AM on 04/24/2009
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Many crimes are resolved based on confessions. Justice's position is that police questioning is not necessarily coercive simply because the right to counsel has attached at arraignment. So long as the defendant is properly Mirandaized, the fact of arraignment, at which the right to counsel attaches, does not render questioning coercive, the evil Miranda and Edwards sought to remedy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 04/24/2009

Who knew the great O would trurn out to be such a n/azi

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:35 AM on 04/24/2009
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Well, welcome to my world. First, there are a whole bunch of jurisdictions that have interpreted the Courts decision in Michigan v Jackson very differently. There has always been a tension between those that would like the 6th amendment, right to counsel, attach at trial versus those that want that right to attach the minute a LEO asks someone their name. This tension has been accelerated in the last eight years for reasons we all know., i.e. in the name of security , corners have been cut. Of course , circumventing the 6th amendment has yielded results. Of course, the outcome determinative policy is considered “success” by the government. Some agencies have become so used to this behavior, they are astounded when anyone complains. This issue revolves SOLELY around those that have requested a lawyer AND then make “voluntary” statements without their lawyer present. When the Court first took on this question, the issue of competency, not to waive their rights, but whether we can be assured that 1) the accused understands that anything they say AFTER they have asked for counsel will be used against them. Many people believe that if they have asked for counsel, anything they say after that cannot be used against them. As it stands now, the answer would be :probably not. “Properly not” is not clear . At least not clear enough to have a consistent policy., and consistent enough for a precious Constitutional right.(to be continued)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 04/24/2009
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When can a defendant make a statement, after they have asked for a lawyer? How voluntary is “voluntary”? How can an agency determine how competent a defendant is at that point? How far does their responsibility go in determining, not whether the defendant understands Miranda, but understands that after he has asked for an attorney; he still needs to shut up. This question is NOT about waiving Miranda , but what happens AFTER the defendant evokes his 6th amendment rights and either is convinced to make a t statement or does so voluntarily. This question of how “‘voluntary “ is voluntary. Interrogators can still talk to the accused. We all know that LEO’s can lie to suspects, and use other tactics to create an atmosphere of fear and make offers of “redemption”. That is how the game has been played for many years. How sophisticated the defendant/ suspect is a huge factor at this point. The least sophisticated a defendant is , the more likely they will be to LISTEN, and then talk. This is what the Court addressed, and evidently will do so again. Of course, justice has their agenda: they want as much access to a suspect as possible. Defense attorneys and civil rights organizations want Miranda to be interpreted broadly. The goal is to have an across the board understanding, obtain solid convictions, and uphold the word and spirit of our Constitutional civil rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 AM on 04/24/2009
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well said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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good post. if the goal were to have an across the board understanding, then that makes more sense... but the article above states obama is wanting to overturn a law... or maybe an interpretation of the law in Michigan v. Jackson... it sounds like the obama admin will argue why someone who has been arrested, and has asked for counsel, should be subjected to questionin­g... now, the point about whether they offer up any information or not has been clearly addressed in miranda... "anything that you say can be used in a court of law"...

it just seems like a no brainer, if you invoke your right, then others should honor your right...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 04/24/2009
- veracity I'm a Fan of veracity 74 fans permalink

wow. Obama really covets that "IMPERIAL CROWN, weapons, and New Palace" that the Slave Traders promised the African slavery kings.. if, you know, they would just round up a few thousand new slaves from the interior, to hand over to the slave ship captains.

yech.

It is AMAZING that someone as 'smart' as Obama, is following the SAME _loser_ Neo-Con talking points - the kristol/ka­gan/safire­/sulzberge­r/rosentha­l/libby/wo­lfowitz
http://newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
PNAC "INVADE IRAQ NOW!"
http://newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
PNAC neo-cons who will FOREVER be the measure of the George W. Bush presidency - as his (OBAMA's!) main (if not ONLY) source of policy advice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 04/24/2009
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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Have you been prescribed some medicine and forgotten to take it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 04/24/2009
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"The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free
is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities­." Lord Acton

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/24/2009

People you are misinterpreting the article in your haste to find anything to criticize him with. Remember he is a Constitutional Law Scholar.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 AM on 04/24/2009

Scholar
noun: a person who attends a school or studies under a teacher

BFD

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 AM on 04/24/2009
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"legal scholar" has an entirely different meaning

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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has obama written any scholarly texts? curious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 AM on 04/24/2009
- thirteen13 I'm a Fan of thirteen13 3 fans permalink

Where in the constitution does it say that people who break the law are not to be prosecuted?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 AM on 04/24/2009
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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Where in the above article did you glean this meaning?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/24/2009
- SorenB I'm a Fan of SorenB 18 fans permalink

With apologies to the Princess Bride...I don't think "misinterpreting" means what you think it means!

Read the amicus brief against the Obama Legal Brief:

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/thompson-et-al-brief-4-14-09.pdf

"I voted for Obama and all I got was this lousy bailout!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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Obama FAILS once again...

this just shows you where this guy's priorities lie... right to counsel is a basic right... and individuals shouldn't be badgered if they invoke their right to counsel...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 AM on 04/24/2009

Sorry I agree with Obama on this one too. If you commit a crime? I think you lose the right to enjoy silence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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What??? if you are arrested, that doesn't mean you committed a crime... geez.

you must be from another country...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 04/24/2009
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allegedly commit a crime, big difference­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 04/24/2009
- Dynamohum I'm a Fan of Dynamohum 59 fans permalink

So, let me get this right, you believe is someone accused of a crime is actually innocent asks for counsel, yet the police interrogate him without a lawyer present and go out the accused for oh say, 48-60 hours straight and keep badgering the person and feeding them different scenarios, that, by the way, the police are speculating about. You think that it is ok for an exhausted innocent person be badgered into a false confession to close the police file? Give me a break.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 04/24/2009

What about innocent until proven guilty??? There are many false confessions acquired by police through intimidation. Usually of minors, alchoholics, the mentally impaired and the just plain terrified. This rule is geared toward the suspect. Not those proven guilty. The cops get it wrong...al­ot...at the start of an investigation. Don't forget their goal is to clear cases not necessarily do justice.

Forensics are considered a much stronger evidence base for conviction than a confession­...why do you think that is ...genius? Cause many confessions are coerced. This law sought to empower suspect's self incrimination rights. Take a look the work of the INNOCENCE PROJECT. See how many poor fools falsely convicted of CAPITAL CRIMES were victims of police intimidation that provoked self incriminating statements (misunderstood or misstated) or out right false confessions later recanted ....but in places like Texas ...it was too late...dam­age done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 04/24/2009
- SorenB I'm a Fan of SorenB 18 fans permalink

Remember it's "Innocent until PROVEN guilty".

Only in the fascist countries is it the other way around.

Unbelievab­le...

"I voted for Obama and all I got was this lousy bailout"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 04/24/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 40 fans permalink
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"right to counsel is a basic right'

And it still is under this decision. Quit being so dramatic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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if you have right to counsel, and the police are able to detain you, you be able to have an attorney present every step of the way... what's the point of having that right if you cant exercise it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/24/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 73 fans permalink
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*you should be...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/24/2009
- take10 I'm a Fan of take10 60 fans permalink
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Just wait until you arse is beaten to a pulp by over zealous cops, then let's talk about being "so dramatic!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/24/2009
- Pema I'm a Fan of Pema 43 fans permalink
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its an erosion of our liberities, it may be small but it always starts that way. its called the slowly boiled frog. stand up!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 AM on 04/24/2009
- rwext I'm a Fan of rwext 8 fans permalink

How??????? the defendant still has the right ,,,, they actually have the right to speak , the aclu types acutally want to limit this .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/24/2009
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