Obama, Reid Oppose Torture Commission

New York Times:

Senate Democratic leaders, joining forces with the Obama White House, said they would resist efforts by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other prominent Democrats to create a special commission to investigate the harsh interrogation methods that the Bush administration approved for terrorism suspects.

At a meeting of top Democrats at the White House Wednesday night, President Obama told Congressional leaders that he did not want a special inquiry, which he said would potentially steal time and energy from his ambitious policy priorities, and could mushroom into a wider distraction by looking back at other aspects of the Bush years.

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[FrozenNorthObserver]

Judging by Ob am a's handling of this so far I would not be surprised if he made Che ney head of the investigations.

[Rule Of Law]

Here's what I've read so far:

Obama's (still!) smarter than you and me. So's my Mensa member, alcoholic uncle, but I wouldn't want him leading the free world.

Obama has a plan and he's biding his time for the right moment! We just don't know what it is, or when it will be implemented--if ever.

And Obama is an honorable and moral man who will return the country to the rule of law. Even though he has supported the Bush regimes stand on warrantless wiretapping, lawsuits refused in the name of national security, and now this bit about defendants and their rights to attorneys being present.

I'd say 100 days is enough for anyone to show their real beliefs, and we've seen what his are now. The rest is just wishful thinking and justification.

[Jude55807]

Obama was largely lifted up by the anti-war crowd because we believe in his moral leadership to end the unjust war and close this dark chapter of American's history.

I still believe in him, and he may be doing it for reasons not yet known. I think if we remind him of his convictions that are still widely popular, we can get him to prosecute and finally put to end the mistakes of the past so we can go forward as a moral nation.

However, I fully expect him to take charge and lead with the same conviction of his morals that help get him elected. I am also upset he is not going to ban assault rifles.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30389664/

[lyleholstein]

http://www.pubrecord.org/torture/854-doj-prosecuted-texas-sheriff-in-1983-for-waterboarding-prisoners.html

DOJ Prosecuted Texas Sheriff in 1983 For Waterboarding Prisoners

In 1983, the Justice Department prosecuted a Texas sheriff and three of his deputies for waterboarding prisoners to get them to confess to crimes.

The deputies were sentenced to four years in prison and Parker pleaded guilty to extortion and federal civil rights violations and received a 10-year sentence.

Yet nowhere in the four "torture" memos released by the Justice Department last week that authorized the CIA to waterboard detainees do the attorneys who drafted the legal opinions mention the federal case U.S. v Parker et al, in which San Jacinto County Sheriff James Parker and three deputies" Carl Lee, Floyd Allen Baker and John Glover"were found guilty of torturing at least six prisoners between 1976 and 1980 in a rural part of the state 60 miles outside of Houston.

[AirForce Vet]

The agenda put forth is ambitious, which I applaud, and should be at the forefront. Just putting the agenda on the front high burner of the stove doesn’t automatically mean that the torture issue, which has now been placed on the low burner at the back of the stove, is no problem. If you only watch the front high burner and not the low burner, you may have an eventual big problem. If we try to place the torture matter into a box and if that which is wrong is not righted according to our laws, all that energy anticipated would have been expended trying to contain the matter of torture. The word retribution has been used frequently. I don't subscribe to retributions that are based on vengeance, reprisals, payback, retaliation, or revenge. If we don't subscribe to retributions based on the penalty of criminal laws (punishment), then we need to throw away the criminal laws and get rid of the penal system, as we know it. People who break the law are punishable (retributions). I agree that we should investigate and prosecute the matter of torture and inhuman methods based on laws not out of vengeance, reprisal, payback, retaliation, or revenge.

[2garen]

will someone explain to me if we do not address this how will this be prevented in the future? What will stop this from ever happening again?

[oregonrain]

I agree, and, how can we go forward , if , we dont address past mistakes ? We only prosecute other countries for torture? I find that logic hypocritical. I keep hearing the phrase "rule of law" , what the hell does that appy to , or whom?

[OliverTwist]

Most progressives and maybe even most Americans don't trust Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, and other top Senate Democrats and Republicans and they don't trust theSenate intelligence committee.

The repeated use of the word "retribution" by President Obama and Senate leaders to descibe the simple enforcement of international and US law regarding torture needs to be countered by the accusation of the crime of obstruction of justice.

Whoever has acted to bring about torture or to obsruct the investigation and prosecution of torture needs to go down.

Otherwise we will none of us or our children ever be safe from the terror of torture by our own agents gone bad.

[gladys46]

Can you provide any supporting links where President Obama "repeatedly" uses the word "retribution" !?? If so, I might understand what the heck you are talking about !!!

[Snuffleupagus]

I bet if YOU really cared about getting to the truth, you could find them all by yourself without any help at all gladys.

Here you go........­.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/21/at-cia-obama-defends-release-of-memos/print/

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4950424.shtml

[OliverTwist]

Lets start with this:

"This is a time for reflection not retribution," Obama said. "We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past." about 4/16/09

[OliverTwist]

On April 19th:

Rahm Emanuel restates President Obama's position as follows:

STEPHANOPOULOS: "What about those who devised policy?"

EMANUEL: "Yes, but those who devised policy, he believes that they were -- should not be prosecuted either, and that's not the place that we go -- as he said in that letter, and I would really recommend people look at the full statement -- not the letter, the statement -- in that second paragraph, "this is not a time for retributio­n." It's time for reflection. It's not a time to use our energy and our time in looking back and any sense of anger and retributio­n."

Today, April 24:

Senator Harry Reid reenforces his agreement with President Obama regarding the use of the word "retribution".

[bygollymissmolly]

Another misleading HP headline:

Obama, Reid Oppose Torture Commission

The truth is

Obama, Reid Oppose Torture Commission RIGHT NOW

They feel that now is not the time for this and I agree. Why? Because as soon as they set up something like a torture commission or appoint a special prosecutor, all the information we are now getting on the crimes committed by the Bush Crime family will dry up. Remember what happened when Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed to look into the outing of a CIA agent. All information immediately dried up and all we were allowed to know was what little bit Patrick Fitzgerald agreed to let us know. We still don't know the full extent of the involvement of Bush-Cheney, et al.

I think that President Obama is playing his cards right. He is releasing information under FOIA requests and letting the public get a complete picture of what the Bush Administration has done to this country. Once we have a complete picture, then will be the time to prosecute. If Obama were to go right to prosecution now, the righties would scream "partisan politics" or "witch hunt". The more the truth is exposed the less they will be able to pull that trick once again.

[OliverTwist]

On the other hand it is apparantly Obama who is forwarding the word "retributi­on."

If what you propose were true I would expect him to use the word "justice" and he isn't doing that.

Too bad.

[gladys46]

You don't read very well ... huh ! Nowhere in this article will you find a quote from President Obama using the word "retribution" ...those are quotes from Harry Reid !

Is there something wrong with repubs ... they can't they read with comprehension !!!

[Snuffleupagus]

bygolly, some people here defending the Obama refusal to deal with torture sound just like Republicans with their bizarro-world logic trips.

.........B­UT NOT NOW

PS this is not a card game we are playing. Real human beings are still suffering while you use fear tactics about Republicans screaming witch hunt. So what? Is that all it takes to get you to suspend your morality and to start advocating that people allow torturers like Bush and Cheney to escape justice?

[holeybuybull]

If the US isn't going to prosecute the torturers who committed these crimes because of the "just following orders" defense, that wasn't considered valid at Nuremburg, the US is going to have to void the convictions of all the Nazis and Japanese that were convicted of war crimes, apologize to those convicted, pay restitution, and reanimate those that were sentenced to death. The fact that torture methods are even being "debated" is ludicrous. For those of you living in an egocentric world, total exposure and prosecution for the perpetrators of these programs will allow you to travel worldwide without fear of reprisal from America's enemies. It is the only way to restore our moral standing.

[osage]

THE GREAT REPUBLICAN LYING MACHINE EXPOSED

By ALI SOUFAN
Published: April 22, 2009

"FOR seven years I have remained silent about the false claims magnifying the effectiveness of the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding. I have spoken only in closed government hearings, as these matters were classified. But the release last week of four Justice Department memos on interrogations allows me to shed light on the story, and on some of the lessons to be learned."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss

[gladys46]

All should know that Che ney speaks of some phantom unreleased memos merely to engineer controversy ! Actual documents have already shown timelines that would totally debunk actionable intel being gained from Bush's reign of t or ture ... statements have already been recorded by witnesses who used other professional interrogation means which gleaned intel which was actionable !

Bush legacy: Reign of T o r ture

[ProgressiveChange]

Indeed ... an honest retrospective on the Fascists who steered the ship for 8 years would be an extraordinarily courageous act ... and there does appear to be a political courage deficit in the Senate and White House these days.

We must be content with the Change We Cannot Believe In ... rather than the Change We Can Believe In.

[gladys46]

Rubbish ! What other law enforcement agency is better equipped to investigate a 6-7 yr. t o rture programme but the Department of Justice !! The President has deferred these horrible charges to that able bodied entity !

Where have you people been all these years while this was on-going, saying nothing ... and please don't rely on now just hearing of this to rture programme, the entire world has been well aware and much has been written during GW's reign of t o rture:

Read some:

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Press/Others/misc_digest_2007_4.txt

[kburlz]

So is O still Okay with the DOJ investigating? I'm having a hard time figuring out where O stands on all this.

[ThunderclapNewman]

Read the story then.

[kburlz]

I did. It doesn't say anything about the DOJ, smartypants.

[Snuffleupagus]

Better yet read this one.
http://www.truthout.org/042409B

Did you have a hard time figuring out that Obama supported the stimulus bill and its trillion dollar price tag? No because he made it clear to you and to all of us.
Did you have a hard time figuring out that Obama wanted more troops in Afghanistan and an expansion into Pakistan? No, because he was clear on that issue.
Have you figured out that we are not leaving Iraq any time soon? Of course you have because he has also been clear on that.

You might be having a hard time figuring out his torture stance for very good reasons.
He is trying to placate honorable Democrats who want the appropriate response to torture, while he in point of fact works very hard to protect Bush from prosecution.
If you are able to suspend your emotional desire for Obama to do the correct and obvious by prosecuting torture crimes, and just look objectively you will know the score.
The news is not good.

[OliverTwist]

I agree.

His apparant use of the perjorative word "retribution" rather than the appropriate word "justice' says it all.

Too bad.

[dirtyice]

Mr Obama and Mr Reid +congress had better stop their stalling and perform the will of the citizens who elected them. They have no right or reason to obstruct justice and continue supporting the criminal actions of Bush & Co.
The politics of "one lies and all the others swear to it" was voted out of office in Nov. 2008.

[espresso4me]

How can we as a nation move on unless we move through what was condoned and practiced under the leadership of the former administration? Do we simply push it aside and tsk tsk the euphemistically "harsh interrogation techniques"? It would be a travesty of justice to not investigate and hold the architects of torture responsible and accountable for their actions. How can we half-heartedly dismiss the past so we can move more quickly into the future?

[bichn]

I don't want an independent commission either. I think an independent or special prosecutor would be better. The 9/11 Commission was very careful to not be too hard on the Bush Administration. I want the facts to be examined and if there are crimes (duh) I want them prosecuted. Principles are only principles if you stand by them when it is inconvenient. Obama doesn't want this to distract from his legacy but unfortunately for him it is part of that legacy. And if he has anything to do with blocking any investigation and/or prosecution his legacy will be negatively impacted. I believe it was MLKjr who said "the time is always right to do what is right." Like it or not how Obama handles this will be one of those defining moments he likes to talk about. Will he turn it into an opportunity to lead? Sweeping it under the rug will surely backfire. Here's hoping he steps up.

[blueskybigstar]

I did a search this morning because I remember a report on NPR about the airport in Florida being owned by close friends of the B administration where the perpetrators of the event went to school to learn to pilot. People need to be aware that the same air craft that delivered the prisoners to Guantanamo have been delivering things to America.

I came up with these sites give more information. Will these things ever be prosecuted? If I had my druthers, I want everything investigated back to IranContra or further because IranContra is still happening.
http://www.madcowprod.com/
http://www.madcowprod.com/10092007.html
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Jan05/150105CIA.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/witness_list.html

and even this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCiiB1_OGUE

[ThunderclapNewman]

WooWoo!!