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Obama says waterboarding was torture

Obama Presser

JENNIFER LOVEN   04/29/09 11:24 PM ET   AP

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects could have been obtained by other means. "In some cases, it may be harder," he conceded at a White House news conference capping a whirlwind first 100 days in office.

Obama also expressed much greater optimism now than a month ago that Chrysler could remain a "going concern," possibly without filing for bankruptcy or with a "very quick" one. Obama did not say so, but Italian automaker Fiat Group SpA is expected to sign a partnership agreement with Chrysler LLC by Thursday as part of negotiations to keep the struggling U.S. automaker alive without bankruptcy protection.

The president gave assurance that one way or another Pakistan's nuclear arsenal would not fall into the hands of Islamic extremists. He said he was confident "primarily, initially" because he believes Pakistan will handle the issue on its own. But he left the door open to eventual U.S. action to secure the weapons if need be.

The prime-time news conference was the third of Obama's presidency and the first not dominated by a recession that has thrown millions of Americans out of work.

At a town-hall style meeting in Missouri earlier in the day, as well as in the White House East Room, Obama said progress has been made in rebuilding the economy, yet more remains to be done.

"You can expect an unrelenting, unyielding effort from this administration to strengthen our prosperity and our security _ in the second hundred days, and the third hundred days, and all the days after," he said in opening his news conference.

He called on Congress to enact his ambitious all-at-once agenda, including education spending to produce a better-trained work force, greater support for renewable energy development, a high-priced system for companies to buy and sell rights to emit dangerous pollutants, a vast expansion of health insurance and new rules to rein in the riskiest Wall Street behavior.

Though Obama's most notable legislative triumphs to date have been enacted on party-line votes, he said he remains eager for bipartisan cooperation with Republicans. But, he said, "I can't sort of define bipartisanship as simply being willing to accept certain theories of theirs that we tried for eight years and didn't work and the American people voted to change."

Obama said Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter's switch from Republican to Democrat wouldn't automatically change the math on legislation because of Specter's independence, nor give him a "rubber-stamp Senate." Specter gave majority Democrats 59 votes in the Senate, pushing them one step closer to the 60 needed to overcome Republican filibusters.

But the party change would "liberate" Specter to cooperate with Democrats more than he has in the past, Obama said.

The president also said he was "absolutely convinced" he had acted correctly in banning tough interrogation techniques including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and in making public the Bush administration memos detailing their use on terrorist suspects. "Not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees ... but because we could have gotten this information in other ways, in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are."

Obama has come under heavy criticism for his actions from former Vice President Dick Cheney and other Republicans. They have urged Obama to release memos they say will show the tough methods were successful in obtaining information.

Obama told reporters he has read the documents Cheney and others are referring to but said they are classified and declined to discuss their details. In a White House exchange with House Republican leader John Boehner last week, Obama said the record was equivocal.

The news conference lasted an hour and covered topics ranging from the outbreak of swine flu _ which Obama referred to as the H1N1 virus, evidently in deference to U.S. pork producers _ to abortion and the recent flare-up in violence in Iraq.

Alongside wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the situation in Pakistan has grown more ominous in recent days as a resurgent Taliban shows signs of strength.

Obama said he was "gravely concerned," not about an immediate takeover of the country by the Taliban but because he said the Pakistani government seems unable to deliver basic services and thus gain the kind of public loyalty necessary to survive against challenges over the long term.

The president also gave his strongest public admission yet that the overhaul of the current immigration system that he once promised to tackle in his first 100 days will not happen in 2009. He focused instead on the "key administrative steps" he has directed officials to take this year that he said would demonstrate competence to opponents in the contentious debate.

Obama defended his administration's continuation of Bush's policy that the president has inherent and unchecked power to shield national security information from disclosure _ the so-called "state secrets" doctrine. Obama said that court filings came too quickly in his presidency to go in a new direction but that his advisers are already working on ways to have the doctrine modified, even while he said certain cases will require its use.

With the government now functioning as a major shareholder in financial institutions as well as, possibly, auto companies such as General Motors, Obama also said Washington has no intention of micromanaging private businesses or of remaining an investor for any longer than necessary. "I've got more than enough to do," he said.

But the president said the government does have the right, on behalf of the taxpayers, to "scrutinize what's being proposed and make sure that their money is not just being thrown down the drain."

Obama's intensive schedule marking his 100th day in office demonstrated the degree to which the administration saw both possibility and peril in the milestone _ a symbolic evaluation point since Franklin Roosevelt took office in the depths of the Great Depression in 1933.

Presidential aides have derided it as a media-created "Hallmark holiday" in which the White House participates reluctantly. But they also recognize it is a time frame by which all modern presidents are judged, at least initially, and which can produce negative narratives that dog administrations for years. So the White House heartily embraced the marker, making high-level Obama advisers available anywhere they were needed over the last week and crafting the president's day to maximum advantage.

The opening act of the Obama presidency has been head-turning, not only for the dire times in which he took office but his flurry of activity.

The reward: strong public backing despite a still-staggering economy. An Associated Press-GfK poll shows that 48 percent of Americans believe the United States is headed in the right direction _ the first time in years that more people than not expressed optimism for a brighter future.

But most of what Obama has done so far, as would be expected for little more than three months, amounts to no more than a down payment.

___

Associated Press writer Ben Evans contributed to this report.

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WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects coul...
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects coul...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BeckyJustice
Stop the frickin Fracking. NOW!
04:23 PM on 05/12/2009
This is just plain ridiculous. ""Not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees ... but because we could have gotten this information in other ways, in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are."

Can I have my vote back? Now he knows better than the experts that keep telling us, (NO VALID information was yielded by those that were tortured.) In fact, some valid info was given by at least one, beforehand, and stopped when the torture began.

Bush saw to it Sadam Hussein was executed, but Hussein hadn't invaded another country, and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. Hussein didn't install such sadistic practices by his military that the members started killing themselves because of the sadistic practices they were forced to watch or participate in. Google Alyssa Peterson, Greg Mitchell Then ask yourself why Military suicides have increased so dramatically in the last few years.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
egbegb
04:19 PM on 05/01/2009
If a slap in the face is torture, what is Life in Prison?
If waterboarding is torture, what is solitary confinement for life?
We should have a plebisite on whether waterboarding and a slap in the face
are torture. Since we have no laws on the subject and the current administration
is very focused on polls, lets have a national poll on

Face Slapping
Confined quarters
Life in Prison
Wall standing
Solitary Confinement for life
Death Penalty
Sleep deprivation
Waterboarding
The ducking stool
handcuffs
no television
no Rush Limbaugh

and write a new law that declares these things one way or the other.
Unfortunately, you cannot apply a new law to the past and no where in the
past can I find any reference that says waterboarding is torture.
09:59 AM on 05/01/2009
This is Obama's OPINION.

FIrst, It is far from settled that waterboarding is torture.

Second, even if it is, the Geneva Convention is between signatories and dictates that in conflicts with non-signatories, signatories to the convention must abide by it until the point it is obvious the non-signatories are not abiding by it. At that point the signatory is no longer constrained by the convention. Even the most left leaning observer would have to agree that beheading of civilians alive, torturing our coalition military members and desecrating their bodies is a fairly blatant indication that the non-signatories are not following the convention...not to mention the over 3,000 civilians lost on 911.

However, for those who still think it was torture and illegal then, to be consistent, you must call for the prosecution of President Obama and his advisors for their recent recent actions of ordering the execution of three Somali teenager Pirates with no record of murder, being held in U.S. custody (in a lifeboat tethered to a U.S. Warship) in order to save one American life. After all these actions were far worse than making a few known mass murderers temporarily uncomfortable to save thousands of American lives.
12:48 PM on 05/03/2009
The deaths of the Somali pirates was NOT an execution. Execution is a sentence handed down after a person is found guilty of an offense deemed worthy of death by either the people, king, etc. This occurs sometime AFTER the crime/offense occurred. This is the definition of execution. This situation is not comparable to execution.

These three pirates were killed during the commission of a crime that put others lives at risk. This was more like bank robbers who have taken a hostage being killed by the SWAT team.

By the way,
I have NO idea what you mean by comparing the Somali pirate incident to torture. How is it legally comparable?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Buddy McCue
08:42 AM on 05/01/2009
Claims have been made on this thread that torture saves lives, at least in theory or in strictly-defined hypothetical situations.

But in the real world example that we are living through, qualified people know that our abuses have actually done the opposite: they increased the number of casualties among our own.

Last June, the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing on detainee interrogation. Testifying before the committee, former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora had this to say about it:

"There are serving U.S. flag-rank officers who maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq -- as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat -- are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo."

Watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly82Kc1H6Fw
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
08:08 PM on 04/30/2009
Re: jspgiunta’s ridiculous scenario: You are driving in your car with your infant son or daughter. You stop at a traffic light and someone carjacks you, dragging you out of the car, speeding off with your child strapped in the back….


Guilty people tend to put forth hypothetical scenarios in place of the actual facts in existence. Why not just use the known facts to make your point? The picture you have painted is like comparing apples to corn. Sure, both are edible, grown on farms, sold in the produce section, are nutritious, and generally liked by most. Those similarities in no way support a general statement such as apples and corn are the same.

The POTUS holds the most powerful office in the land and (before Bush 44) the most respected office in the world. He swears to uphold the laws of the land, the Constitution and any treaties to which he signs his name on behalf of every citizen of this country. There is a well documented process which is to be followed to introduce new laws, legally modify existing ones and amend the Constitution.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
08:19 PM on 04/30/2009
The extent to which The Bush Crime Syndicate, legal clown brigade included, went to "explain and justify" their behavior is, on its face, farcical. They seemed to have followed the often heard statement, urging one to ask for forgiveness and not permission. They are asking for the forgiveness of the justice system and the American people. They were legally obligated to ask for legal permission. Carefully crafting correspondence between a few legal minds of questionable morality and integrity doesn’t count. Otherwise, why wouldn’t all of us simply get a few attorneys to put into writing that we could legally do anything that we wanted to do?

Scenarios where criminals are caught who could provide information that would save lives, especially in the world of drugs and gangs. These criminals and others mark people for death all of the time; yet, the police don't torture them into confessing. According to your (il)logic, they should, right?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
08:21 PM on 04/30/2009
I am still replying to jspgiunta's comment but it is buried way too deep. So, I am going to post my entire response below my initial comment, so that the entire thread is in one place.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
08:07 PM on 04/30/2009
Right right wing psychos ALWAYS have an exception or excuse for everything that suits their end? healthcare is socialism, corporate welfare is capitalism, torture with a doctor present is enhanced interrogation. The GOP is WACKED OUT!
03:06 PM on 04/30/2009
You are driving in your car with your infant son or daughter. You stop at a traffic light and someone carjacks you, dragging you out of the car, speeding off with your child strapped in the back. The guy realizes what he's done and abandons the car somewhere with your child still in it. Because you gave such a good description to the authorities, he is caught an hour later by the police. He hates cops, and stubbornly refuses to tell them where he left the car. It’s cool outside now, but the temperature that day is going to shortly rise to near 100. There isn't a whole lot of time before your child will succumb to heat stroke and die in that locked car. I am there with the cops and can guarantee you in ten minutes, after waterboarding this guy, I'll know where your child is. Would you like to discuss the philosophical ramifications of the situation with me, or ask how soon I can start?

Now put yourselves in the shoes of the people tasked with protecting our country from another 911, while dealing with a terrorist who had already resisted standard interrogation techniques, and was smugly telling you there was more to come. What exactly are YOU going to do?
03:27 PM on 04/30/2009
Snap back to reality and decide that trying to win the lottery
is about a 30 million to one shot and probably not a very good retirement plan strategy.
03:51 PM on 04/30/2009
I can only assume, by your response that you think this is some how far fetched. I also noticed you didn't answer either question. Here's another one for you: What do you think the odds were that eight years ago 19 terrorists would have hijacked four planes and fly three of them into buildings, killing over 3000 Americans? Don't know about you, but I wouldn't have gone to vegas with those odds.
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Cunningham
I intend to live forever, or die trying. GrouchoM
03:38 PM on 04/30/2009
I would congratulate and thank the person who broke the window and called the police when he/she saw a child locked inside a car.
04:09 PM on 04/30/2009
Well, you've obviously proven you're not a parent. If you are, and you leave your child's saftey to luck, you should take your self out of the gene pool, before you have anymore kids.
02:19 PM on 04/30/2009
If I could have waterboarded Casey Anthony to find her little daughter Callie. I WOULD HAVE to save her life. It would be worth her sweet life in exchange for my sleepless nights. Selfish= worried how I would feel..........UNSELFish= helping others at my expense. Thank you George for what you did for us !!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PartyofLogic
Proudly progressive
02:33 PM on 04/30/2009
comparing an abused child to a terrorist? strange and completely wrong. Thank you George? For sinking our country to the most base level possible and for stomping all over our Constitution while you were at it? Sorry. The ends here could NEVER justify the means.
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Cunningham
I intend to live forever, or die trying. GrouchoM
03:18 PM on 04/30/2009
The ticking-time-bomb scenario isn't real. It's a fiction created by Hollywood and GOPer pro_pan_gan_dists. Who do you want to tor_ture next to avoid the dea_th of some sweet child? The neighbor you don't like? The brother-in-law you don't trust? The Sunday School teacher? Get real.

I cu_rse George Bush for what he did TO us.
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01:36 PM on 04/30/2009
If Abu Ghraib was wrong then why is waterbing right?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fredisfred
01:56 PM on 04/30/2009
Good question. I find it interesting that a lot of repubs admit that the events Abu Ghraib were just plain terrible, but on the other hand torture at Gitmo was AOK in their book.
02:16 PM on 04/30/2009
and to expand...if Abu G and waterboarding are wrong, why is b0mbing innocents in pak.is.tan right?
This administration has b0mbed pak.is.tan over 60 times.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
09:14 PM on 04/30/2009
i have heard some gop talking heads explain the difference between abu gharaib and the other torture sessions that took place at gitmo as being the abu gharaib soilders were just doing it for fun, rather than bush/cheney who were doing it to save thousands of american lives.
05:10 PM on 04/30/2009
Because American lives we'ret at stake at Abu Ghraib.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Buddy McCue
08:27 AM on 05/01/2009
You seem to be saying that waterboarding has saved lives. If you make extraordinary claims like that, then the burden of proof is upon you and you alone.

Can you provide any evidence whatsoever that this is true?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
11:18 PM on 05/07/2009
i would be willing to at least RECONSIDER my position on torture when the evidence of the lives saved is finally made public.....i won't hold my breath!

if cheney says lives were saved, then they MUST have been saved, right!?
11:55 AM on 04/30/2009
If Obama could look me in the eye and promise that he would never resort to torture, even if his own family were in mortal danger....

Of course, I'd have to make sure he wasn't crossing his fingers behind his back.
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01:33 PM on 04/30/2009
This aint 24. Stop living in TV land.
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01:38 PM on 04/30/2009
'24' is fiction.
05:11 PM on 04/30/2009
Yeah, but 911 wasn't.
11:48 AM on 04/30/2009
Mr. President,
Stop using the words "mistake" and "techniques" You are just trying to cover both sides of the aisle. The more you use these words, you will slowly(and surely) lose the respect of the people that put you in the White House. I dont think Bush/Cheney is worth that. Just do the right thing and you cant go wrong. Why is that so hard to do?
11:57 AM on 04/30/2009
I seriously doubt that most people haven't noticed that Obama speaks out both sides of his mouth.
Even supporters here have defended how he speaks about torture because "he needs to distance himself from the situation." Such integrity.
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01:35 PM on 04/30/2009
Jack Bauer isn't real. Obama is.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fredisfred
01:54 PM on 04/30/2009
I seriously doubt you understand that the DOJ doesn't exist solely to do the White House's bidding. There's supposed to be a distance between the two, derrrr....
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
karela
11:36 AM on 04/30/2009
Here's a fascinating article about the man who was in charge of interrogating 500 spies for England during WWII. England was being bombed daily and people were dying while these spies had the information needed to save lives. The guy's nick name was Tin Eye. He not only got the information, but he also turned dozens of these spies into double agents who worked for him. And he expressly forbade any form of physical violence at all. It's in the London Times on Line and it makes for interesting reading! This guy was not nice and he didn't, unlike Churchill, take this stance on a moral basis. He insisted on it because it worked and the other way didn't. Here's the link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/ben_macintyre/article729216.ece
11:37 AM on 04/30/2009
Pass it on to Obama. He's going to need all the help he can get.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fredisfred
01:59 PM on 04/30/2009
Pass it on to yourself. Unlike your pal Bush, Obama already knows you don't torture people to get information.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Badfickle
01:08 PM on 04/30/2009
Very interesting article. Thanks
11:06 AM on 04/30/2009
Ronald Reagan's Justice Dept. prosecuted a Texas sheriff and 3 deputies for waterboarding prisoners in 1983, securing lengthy prison terms for all parties.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/138600/reagan%5C%27s_doj_prosecuted_texas_sheriff_for_waterboarding_prisoners

So why did Ronald Reagan's Justice Dept. have the integrity to prosecute torture when the Obama administration doesn't?

(And for those who want to play "pass the buck" and say it's up to Holder...if Holder won't do it, then he should RESIGN).
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Badfickle
11:18 AM on 04/30/2009
St. Ronnie did even more than that.

"The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention . It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.

The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called "universal jurisdiction." Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution."

-----May 20th 1988 message to the senate concerning the U.S. ratification of the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment..

It seems Reagan would want Bush jr and his friends prosecuted.
11:24 AM on 04/30/2009
I used to despise Reagan and in some ways I still do. But it's ironic that in some of the most important areas (human rights, regulating the banks, etc) Reagan was far more progressive, and had more integrity, than Obama does.
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Cunningham
I intend to live forever, or die trying. GrouchoM
03:21 PM on 04/30/2009
Yet Raygun operated the School of the Americas and propped every petty despot he could find. St. Ronnie was no saint.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fredisfred
11:20 AM on 04/30/2009
"if Holder won't do it, then he should RESIGN"

I agree.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Badfickle
10:58 AM on 04/30/2009
Do you remember the first Gulf war? Do you remember the Iraqi soldiers surrendering by the hundreds?

That's the best way to win a battle. When the enemy surrenders there's less fighting fewer casualties on our side. It's cheaper and the surrendering soldiers will likely give up intel.

Why did they surrender?

Because they knew they would be well treated. They knew we followed the Geneva Convention. They knew they would get three squares a day.

If we let this torture stand do you think they will surrender the next time around? He!! no. They will fight to the last man. Their superiors will use this as a propaganda tool against us and they will not surrender and our soldiers will die because of it.

This torture will cost American soldiers lives.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fredisfred
11:06 AM on 04/30/2009
Exactly. This is one of the reasons you don't torture your enemies when you capture them. It's one of those simple lessons the Bush Administration never bothered to learn, nor cared to. All they were interested in was obtaining false confessions that Saddam was linked to 9/11, so Bush could save face. Further proof that the previous Administration didn't care a fig about the troops, they were nothing but pawns to be used. Just look at the treatment Veterans received under Bush & co.
11:15 AM on 04/30/2009
"This torture will cost American soldiers lives." Indeed.

Torture is not only morally repugnant, it's known to be ineffective in eliciting useful information. And it has a powerful negative effect on enemies who would otherwise surrender or defect to a superior ethical system.

I blame Bush et al for the policy of torture and how it impacted the image of the US in the world, but above all I blame the American people for allowing it.

Electing an anti-torture president, Barack Obama, is a good first step - but we have much to atone for. Much.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Heavy
10:14 AM on 04/30/2009
I like Turley's remark about bank robbery being a "technique" for withdrawing money from the bank.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VictoriaP
Do Your EFFING Jobs, DC Politicos!!
09:11 PM on 04/30/2009
Ditto, i really chuckled when Turley said it. Heck, why don't all of us just hire a bunch of attorneys to write memos and give us cover for the crimes that we plan to commit in the future.