Bruce Gessen, Jim Mitchell: The Architects Of The CIA's Waterboarding Program, Reports ABC News

ABC News:

As the secrets about the CIA's interrogation techniques continue to come out, there's new information about the frequency and severity of their use, contradicting an 2007 ABC News report, and a new focus on two private contractors who were apparently directing the brutal sessions that President Obama calls torture.

Read the whole story: ABC News

Comments

[AliMB]

Part I

ABC and Brian Ross should exercise caution with CIA-related pieces, particularly after erroneously parading John Kiriakou as an expert on the interr0gation of Abu Zub.aydah. While this report appears mostly accurate, there are some points that merit clarification.

First, it is important to know that ABC is not leaking the names of Jessen and Mitchell; their IDs have been public for sometime now. I particularly remember a righteous Vanity Fair piece from 2007, and a Mark Benjamin article (Salon) that preceded it by a month.

VF writer Katherine Eban intentionally focused on their identities and background, describing how thru a 10-month investigation she came to learn of their role in reverse-engineering SERE training (the SERE community is very small, making the identification easy). Eban also noted that at a 2003 CIA-sponsored "Science" conference they "were named on the attendance list as CIA contractors". Nonetheless, I believe ABC's decision to am.bush them and broadcast their images is borderline unethical, particular considering that they are individuals who cannot offer anything of value i.e. they are prohibited from speaking in detail.

Second, emphasizing Jensen and Mitchell's lack of interr0gation experience is misleading. One would believe that the aforementioned pair were conducting the interr0gations alone (which they were not). They simply helped devised the 'enhanced' techniques and advised in their application. As various sources indicate, after AZ was captured an entire CIA interr0gation team was dispatched to a secret CIA facility in SE Asia.

[AliMB]

Part II

How many 'professional interr0gators' were sent is uncertain. However, what is clear is that the CIA had very little experience interr0gating high-level terr0rist det.ainees; operational inexperience wasn't isolated to the contracted SERE psychologists. As the Agency began collaring terr0rists worldwide, it entered uncharted territory. That renders the 'expert' commentary with 20/20 hindsight particularly frivolous.

Third, ABC uses retired AFCol. Steve Kleinman as a source, even though he lacks objectivity on this issue (a solid conjecture based on his other statements). Kleinman has previously argued that "I think [Mitchell and Jessen] have caused more h.arm to American national security than they'll ever understand".

Finally, this piece repeats the misleading notion that KSM was waterb0arded 183 times. In fact, KSM only experienced 5 waterb0arding sessions (as stated in the 2007 ICRC report, hardly a CIA ally). The '183' number is taken from a declassified OLC memo, but it refers to "pours", not sessions. This clarification is important because there is strong evidence that the CIA program was administered in a professional manner under meticulous observation.

In sum, this clip didn't provide any new information. It appears that ABC simply rehashed the VF article as a means to release images of the CIA contractors in question. Unfortunately for ABC, broadcasting their 'no-comments' didn't contribute anything to the debate.

[citizensrus]

Right wing talking point: THE BIG LIE #354666
"Waterboarding is not torture"

[wyldthings]

I guess most of you think we are dealing with criminals. The men they water boarded were fanatical Religious Lunatics. I will hold ABC and it's reporters personally responsible for these men's safety and the safety of all members of his family. Do you remember Mr. Berg from Pennsylvania or Daniel Pearl. These people have no moral compass. They will not hesitate to torture these men or anybody in their family. I guess some journalists won't get it until we get a video of Al-Queda beheading one of these men 12 year old daughter.

[citizensrus]

One prisoner who was tortured was just a taxi driver in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We have committed the same crimes as Hiter. We have scapegoated a relgion and an identity and rounded up a people without trial, without lawyers, without any rights. How wrong is this?

[psnyder]

Judging from much of the reaction at the ABC site to this story, the branding of the Republican Party as the party of torture, craven fear, and our-ends-justify-any-means proceeds apace. I delight in watching conservatives sink as they cling to the anchor they believe is a life preserver.

Our national security is enhanced, not threatened, by abjuring torture. Torture is for weaklings and bullies who believe implicitly in the excellence of their own impulses and in their inalienable right to inflict pain on others. It is a crime, regardless of the rationalizations or the degree of technical skill applied, and doctors who design torture programs should at a minimum lose their professional standing.

Many of the commenters at ABC cry "shame" and "treason" on ABC for the story. In doing so they exhibit the tiresome right-wing propensity for projection. Shame and treason are proper to torturers and those who support torture, not to those who bring it to light to exorcise it. ABC et al are fulfilling the original intent of the First Amendment's guarantee of Freedom of the Press by exposing facial government criminality.

[wdw505]

that was the uae not the US

[gbrooks]

You know, I could have told them how to torture for $500/day.*

The gov't is so wasteful.

*By demonstrating it on Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld.

[blood1]

All I want to know is how many of you did not bother to read the information in the Senate Report that was released last week. Gee, this information should be common knowledge if you read even part of the information.

So this is why most Americans support the idea that torture is okay?

Were they too lazy to read all of the documentation that was released by the White House. Shame on all of you who say you want to participate in Democracy but can't read a couple of hundred pages....the Armed Service Report reads like an Novel.

[TheHandyman]

Explain to me why I should read the document when I have friends who have friends who may or may not have read it and they told me everything I needed to know? I suppose you are going to try to tell me something about facts or truth. I don't need no stinkin' facts or truth all I need to do is say whatever my fiends told me to say and besides everybody knows that torture works cause I saw it on TV and it always works, so there!

[wdw505]

no i disagree that torture even happened in cuba

[abouttime]

Obama's Justice DepartmentMust prosecute Bush aides!

[wyldthings]

I would encourage all people on this post see the video of UAE sheik torturing a suspect. Now that's real torture. This is how the Islamic world treats it's citizen.

[wdw505]

now there you go..........waterboarding is not the same and not torture

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7402099&page=1

[pjburke]

Article:

Waterboarding IS TORTURE... Period.
Master Chief Petty Officer Malcom Nance

As a former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California I know the waterboard personally and intimately. SERE staff were required to undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was no exception. I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people. . . .
. . . . [snip]

(article continues...)

There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification...

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/
_______________________________________________________________

[abouttime]

Sadism, torture is real. Former U.S. actions perpeturate this behavior and thus those U.S. Government offials must be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of laws.

[lwfky]

As usual, the right wing misses the point. It doesn't matter if the "terrorists" of the world our worse than we are. Waterboarding is torture, torture is against our laws and those who participated in it, whether Republican or Democratic , are criminals!

[oldcabman]

Because of the (well known) ticking time-bomb scenario, we must accept that, for a completely intransigent, known terrorist with critical information, some form of torture is inevitable. Accepting this undeniable fact drove the creation of the disputed "torture-lite." Only when legal can it be condoned and thus controlled! So, if it was to be approved by authorities, then the interrogators would need to be damn careful about its lethality and highly restrictive as to the recipients.

So we did it, and WE HAD TO DO IT TO PROTECT OUR PEOPLE. And I am glad that we did, perhaps it saved my life or my family's (we are in LA.)

Now, thanks to Messrs. Obama, Holder, Ross and ABC News, when we will need to do it again, it will be hidden away, will not be limited, and those involved will truly be nameless, faceless spies. There will be no controls at all. Obama and Biden won't support it publicly, but they won't eschew the intel when it (scrubbed-up) arrives in the morning report.

In summary, the new policy of Mr. Obama amounts to just window-dressing, so much PR.

Hate Cheney all you want, go ahead and waterboard him or prosecute him, but that won't change the basic problem. Which is, in a ticking bomb scenario, we (collectively) must do whatever is necessary and however repugnant to elicit the information that will save us. Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

[lwfky]

Most military and true intelligence agents believe that the ticking time bomb scenario is "24" b.s.

[TheHandyman]

There is a word for people like you, several actually, but the polite ones would be uncivilized and barbarian. Sorry, but that is the way it is, you are a coward and afraid of your own shadow if you think that anything you just posted makes you anything ressembling a good human. I'll also be willing to bet a lot of money that you believe in Jesus and God and yet you want to do something they say is wrong. My, my, ironic, isn't it!

[wdw505]

but deep down you know he is right..........it just burns you doesn't it........you clowns all most always assume religion will be present.......guess what i don't know many of my peers that are religious and yet still they are conservatives

[abouttime]

Obama needs to act quickly and end the heinous crimes committed by the previous Executive. The CIA, Justice Department and other "officials" must be purged into jail, lest Obama has ideas similar to his predecessor.

[Alex The Bob]

I too am appalled that the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks that killed 2,974 people was waterboarded to get more information because other techniques didn't work.

Just because he answered "you'll find out " to the question of what he knew of any future planned attacks, that doesn't give the CIA the right to use advanced interrogation techniques!

I am so angry at the Bush administration would allow waterboarding on KSM and this just to protect Americans (maybe even your family & friends) from being killed! Damn them! Our outrage is completely justified!

[abouttime]

Your outrage is misplaced.
Willfully setting aside facts is ignorance, and is no excuse for a defense against sadistic behavior.

[Alex The Bob]

This article makes be so mad too!

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjNkYmU2NWVlOWE4MTU5MjhiOGNmMWUwMjdjZjU2ZjA=

No amount of American lives is worth waterboarding KSM! This needs to be a major issue that we need to deal with, because it is very important that Bush and his cronies be jailed!

Ohh, the anger!

[TheHandyman]

First of all, they didn't try any other techniques even tho they were supposed to. Second, they did not get any worthwhile information by torturing him either. Your handle should be alex the boob!

[wdw505]

maybe it is time to turn off cameras and interview the candidate one on one......no witnesses......no marks......no problem

this will be the military's solution at least on an individual level.....

[pjburke]

The military rejected -- by 4 out of 4 Generals Counsel -- the proposed "enhanced interrogation" before they were approved. The military knows better... but there were a few Cheney-corrupted renegades -- such as JTF-170 at GiTMO and numerous contractors who'd do his 'dark side' dirty work. NCIS rebelled. FBI refused to participate. CIA insisted on legal cover from OLC (after the fact).

The military doesn't want this... never did.

[wdw505]

i said on an individual basis

[Cyberoptic]

It is possible that there weren't any CIA professionals that wanted to attach their names to these bogus torture policies, so they outsourced for them. They probably used them as they did/do Blackwater.

The frantic comments on ABC's news page by the "religious right" about revealing the names of these "patriots" may be an indication that the mob is being sicced on the free press because revealing these names means that the public can see that the Cheney/Bush administration based their and our national policy on two guys that had no actual experience. This knowledge does not bode well for Cheney's assertions about the effectiveness of these torture practices.

[abouttime]

"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels"

[pjburke]

those names have been kicking around in the press since 2007... they're mentioned in Jane Mayer's book "Dark Side," and also in her columns in the New Yorker.

[cynthia3217]

Did anyone else pick up on the comment "not medically safe". Why would the CIA consult with psychologists regarding medical safety? The focus now should be on the questions: Who hired these jokers? Was there any vetting of their bona fides? Are they still on the government payroll?

[nicole473]

Good points.

[lwfky]

Are they still psychologists in good standing? And if so, is the proper regulatory body (APA?) looking into that?

[TheHandyman]

interestingly enough, both of these guys, without identifying the fact they were engaged in torture prevented the Apa from adopting a membership and ethical rule that would have forbidden APA members from participating or observing torture. When it was found out what they were doing the rule was adopted and they are now no longer members of the APA! This was all covered several times a year starting in 2006 on DemocracyNow! If you want to find out what is really the news go to democracynow.org and watch their daily broadcast. Amy Goodman is an award winning journalist of top notch quality!

[Cyberoptic]

In discussing polls another thing to consider is the wording of the polls, which we are seldom given.

If the question is, "do you support investigating the interrogation techniques which saved millions of American lives, and which investigation will threaten national security?" the answer will be one way.

If the question is, "do you support investigation into torture techniques that are threatening millions of American lives by creating terrorists and which threaten national security through damaging America's reputation throughout the world?" the answer will be another way.

The simple media entry that states Americans oppose these investigations proves nothing without knowledge of the specific questions, and the demographics of those who were asked the questions.

[wdw505]

well said

[abouttime]

Agreed.
Thanks - Let laws be enforced upon the people, (especially in Governement) for torture against humans. Polls are non-sense.
I demand justice under laws forbidding torture!

[abouttime]

The sadistic U.S. Government officials who authorized and carried out the torture programs MUST be prosecuted by the new administration -- I demand it!
Without indictments and trials and heavy sentences against those responsible, Obama will be making it clear that the U.S. will always commit similiar atrocities, with impunity.
Deterence is real, but only if laws prohibiting murder, infliction of pain and torture are prosecuted.
To do otherwise would place Obama and America as a co-conspiritors in these egregious crimes, -- and if that happens bye-bye morality and peace -- bye-bye our country of law and order!

[wdw505]

no elected high official will ever see the inside of a courtroom over this as a defendant

[nicole473]

I would not bank on that. I believe strongly that they will.