Church Going Americans More Likely To Support Torture

cnn.com:

The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.
The Washington Region Religious Campaign Against Torture rallied on Capitol Hill in March 2008.

More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according to the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Read the whole story: cnn.com

Comments

[sherwinski]

In order to understand this study I think you have to think about the nature of Biblical Religions in General. There are many Gods that people in the world believe in, but the Biblical God is exceptional in his cruelty, Misogyny, unrelenting violence, impatient, and absolute disregard for Human rights. This is evidenced by the stories of the Old Testament. As a believer of any religion you follow the example of your chosen Deity, and Christians are no different, their God sets the examples to which they must adhere. So it should not be a terrible shock that they believe in torture, after all the people in the Bible are tortured by God through his efficient use of fear and retribution into submitting to his will. It’s also a copout to pick and choose what parts of your religion you choose to believe, either you are a believer or a poser, you can’t pick the rosy parts of the New Testament and ignore the ugly parts. You don’t have to stop believing in God; just don’t believe a silly book written by Racist and Sexist Men who lived at a time where people knew next to nothing factual about this Universe.

[BethA]

You have a good point, perhaps not quite complete one.
I too believe the Bible is simply not the word of God, it is the word of a whole lot of ancient ideas written by way too many people with their own axes to grind and USED by power hungry organized churches who claim to interpret it FOR us. They pull out what they want and use it to control their followers. The common denominator is that people who follow these evangelical, extremists abandon thinking for themselves or gravitate towards these churches because those churches preach the hate they personally feel anyway.

What's left out of your commentary is there are also wonderful ideas in the bible and most moderate Christitans who have good hearts gravitate towards those portions that speak to humanity over hate. It is THOSE Christians who have silently let "Christianity" be taken over by the evangelical , conservatives ....and they need to speak up or risk the complete movement of their faith to the ugly side...

[awckid3]

I have yet to see this so-called moderate christian you speak of (I'm 45).

[VirginiaJeff]

You really don't think the use of fear and retribution are ever worthwhile. Would you let your children run roughshod over you rather than punish them (i.e. use retribution)? Going forward, do you want bankers to fear retribution if they misuse people's savings in order to line their own pockets? Why is that we hold our fellow men and women accountable for their actions, but we resent our Creator for doing the same?

[MalloMel]

"Why is that we hold our fellow men and women accountable for their actions, but we resent our Creator for doing the same?"

I would put it this way: "We hold our fellow men and women accountable for their actions. Why shouldn't we hold, "our Creator," accountable for the same?" I don't believe that just because he is, "our Creator," gives him an automatic free pass. If he had set a better example, then maybe the world would not be in such dire straights today.

[BruceHNV]

Sad that the only means of establishing order and keeping control you can imagine is punishment.

To you, all responsibility must be blame. All control is force. All justice is punishment.

What a dark world.

[AgnesBankhead]

these bible thumping, self righteous "christians" are a real piece of work .........

[rbtboss]

The study was made by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. I'm thinking that the most interesting thing about it is what it says about religion...and public life, specifically as regards torture. It is an objective, quantitative study concerning the Chritian religion and the public acceptance of torture.
That is, the religion symbolized by a guy being tortured to death, publically, and torture.
He's a religious figure. He said something. He got tortured to death. In public.
So, now there is a religion about it . And a societ built to a large extent around the religion. And, that society has been torturin. Is there a religionship?
Or do we have to be so stupidly politically correct about Xianity that we can't even look at it?

[Rog49Thomas]

Matthew 7:21-24 would be the appropriate text here.

[citizensrus]

I think it is an important survey. I don't think it is demonizing Christians, I think it is very revealing. I am surprised at the results, though I really shouldn't be, considering what I have seen of the Religious Right.

[rbtboss]

I'm surprised that anyone would find it revealing. To me it states what should have been obvious for a millenium, and those that don't already know it are too under the spell to accept it.

[Zanti]

Did you post these exact words under a similar situation, or am I having deja vu?

[citizensrus]

I thought God, Jesus, was the source of grace. If we are imperfect and we turn to Christ to better ourselves..how do we come up with this?
I don't understand religion.

[Zanti]

It's an important survey in that it reveals seventy-one percent of the U.S. population approves of torture at least on rare occasions. The pie chart linked from the main article gives the exact for/against breakdown.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this is a matter of religion. The figures arrived at in the poll are across the population. Whoever decided to present this as another swipe against religion should have his or her job title revoked. It's sad to see the media flush what little integrity it possesses every time a ratings-op comes up.

[bootooyoo]

Did you post nearly these exact same words under a similar situation, about a dozen times, or are we all having deja vu?

[helonias]

Hmmmmmmmm people who support nay kind of torture are not Christians in any way

[farseer]

I go to church 11 times a week, and I think torture should be used only in the very rarest instances. As, when someone has planted a nuclear weapon somewhere that is ticking, but they won't tell you where.

[rbtboss]

First step is to waterboard them until they agree that nuclear weapons tick.

[awckid3]

lol

[bigbluenat4]

And you have 24 hours to get it back...Then you call...Jack Bower, He'll find it no matter what it takes.(said in the big scary movie man voice)

[JoeSausage]

That's a script from a TV show called "24". That's not a situation that has ever happened. Never happened. If you base your beliefs on a FOX TV show, or think that government policy should be formed around a Fox TV show, then you're pathetically stupid. Maybe the best thing for America would be to sterilize anyone with a low IQ, and eventually stupid would cease to be the prevalent attitude in America.

[farseer]

I never saw the show or heard of the plot idea.

[BruceHNV]

Were such the case, torture would be of no utility.

Someone fanatical enough to plant a nuclear device which will kill tens or hundreds of thousands, or even millions, is also going to be fanatical enough to resist pain.

If they won't tell you where without torture, they won't tell you where with torture.

For someone who goes to church so much, and therefore would likely support the ideas of absolute right and wrong, it is a bit puzzling that you would assign so absolute an evil as torture to a "relative" category.

[Zanti]

According to the pie chart which CNN linked to (everyone looked at it, right?), seventy-one percent of the population believes torture is justified at least on rare occasions.

SEVENTY-ONE PERCENT OF THE U.S. POPULATION. I.e., U.S. citizens. The people. Everyone. The public. The body politic. Folks. The average guy and gal. Mom, Pop, and the rest of the extended family. Etcetera.

That's a big majority of THE POPULATION. At large. The people. The public. You 'n' me. Hello?

When nearly 3/4 of the public/U.S. population/people/citizens/average Joe and Jane/body politic thinks torture is okay at least in rare instances, HOW IS IT AN ISSUE OF FAITH VS. LACK OF FAITH?

By the same logic, we could make it an issue of Southerners vs. Northerners, or those who watch HBO vs. those who don't. And so on.

That most Americans think torture is O.K. in any context or situation is reason for concern. I wonder about those who would reduce this troubling news to yet another religion-bashing op, though I'm beyond being surprised.

[bigbluenat4]

The real problem is, Who did the polling, who were the Sample group, Where was it done, HOW was it done, what was the exact wording...Like if the Polling person asked " If it meant Keeping your CHILD from dying of another Errorist Att Ack, would you Allow some far off guy who you don't know to be T or tu red"? And the answer was "uh...um...I guess so?" They would mark that as a yes. So Context matters.

[rbtboss]

Go for it.
Christians vs non-religious is easy.
Southerners vs Northerners? I put my money on Southerners more into torture.
HBO watchers? I couldn't care less.
Dems vs Repubs? Haaa!!
Cat people vs Dog people? Hmmm.

[Zanti]

I was making a point. I....

Never mind.

[dolphy]

I guess since the church did most of the torturing they still have the spawn of the dark ages holdouts.

[didyounotice]

What kind of an article is this at a time like this? Answer: Divisive and inflammatory.

Why is okay today to demonize followers of Jesus Christ and sanctify everyone else and their own individual belief system(s)? This is simply another vain attempt to destroy one God and replace it with another--a different package and different arguments but the same objective. And need I mention the first amendment?

Persecute Christians and you make them stronger. Believe what you wish and leave others to do the same. Is that so difficult?

[bigbluenat4]

Actually, They are really followers of John. You see, jesus was a Jew, he Never mentions Gentiles, John does. John never Physically met Jesus. Besides the fact the church today is against EVERYTHING that Jesus taught.

[Zanti]

For the current critics of religion, yes. In fact, it's impossible for them.

Fact is, we have a survey which suggests that 71 percent of the U.S. population thinks torture is justified at least rarely. 71 percent--a large majority of THE U.S. POPULATION. Everyone.

So, naturally, it's presented as if it were an issue of religion. Pray for our species.

[bigbluenat4]

"Persecute christians and you make them stronger"? That is all that Christians have, Persecution, Theirs and the persecution of others. The movement was based around persecution, they were persecuted by the romans and that garnered support for them, Their message was, "everything in this physical realm is nothing, heaven is a kingdom of gold...yadda, yadda....." This garnered wide Support throughout the slave and lower class Romans. So Persecution is the Christian ideal....By the way, NO BODY IS PERSECUTING YOU!!!!

[rbtboss]

An objective study of the religious mind. It is likely to abdicate its individual responsibility to assess moral behavior and leave it up to authority sanctioned by a preacher. Not a diety, not a book, but the man on Sunday who tells them what it all means.

[Zanti]

"The religious mind." Wow. So, is that how religious folks like Gore, Carter, Obama, and the Clintons find their guidance?

Were Albert Schweitzer, Martin Luther King Jr., Harriet Tubman, William Wilberforce, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer mindless sheep, too?

Are you morally and intellectually superior to all, or just some, of the people I just named?

[quiviran]

The question is not about how the oppressors of Christianity act, it's about how Christians act. In other words "WWJD"?

[Zanti]

WWJD? Probably point out that the poll isn't about religion but, instead, about the large majority of U.S. citizens who, to whatever extent, condone torture. I think he'd want to preach to that large majority, to persuade its members to think and act more humanely.

That's what I think JWD.

[bigbluenat4]

I can see it. Any body ever been to a Catholic wedding? Talk about stress positions! wah oh! (stand,kneel,sit,stand,kneel,sit, for like two hours!)

[CoolPapa]

Of course they do.

[ssg13565]

Now explain to me again why you have to be a believer to be able to lead a moral life.

So atheists are immoral and believers are the moral beacons?

[bigbluenat4]

Well you see, if you don't believe you are going to......HE//.....That makes them morally superior.
You must listen to an invisible dude, who sees everything, He will tell you what is right and wrong. or you could read a collection of stories, that were put together in the 2nd century by a bunch of rich GUYS, and in that wonderful piece of fiction all of your questions will be answered. Like, Why did Jesus tell all of his followers to leave their families and have them go alone into the desert with him? What happened in the desert? inquiring minds want to know? if the son of God has an "O" then who's name does he scream? "ME,ME,OOOHHHHH ME!!"

[dolphy]

That's only the new testament. The the 2/3 of the book was written between 4000 to 3000 years ago.

[Yves Papa]

This amazes me in that supporting torture is against on of the basic tenets of Christianity (at least Catholicism)

[happykiddo]

this survey has to be way off. i can't see religious grandmothers backing torture.

[SteveDenver]

Then you don't know a lot of grandmothers. Some of them are mean ol' farts.

[DaBluAce]

grandmothers are people too and some people not just grandmas are just mean ol' farts

[Zanti]

You've touched on an important issue few people ever consider in our age of deifying polls and poll results: namely, what's the relationship between what people say vs. what they actually *would* do or say if a situation arose? To wit, how many people who claim to be okay with torture would give the order themselves?

While we're on the subject of polls, there's another thing few people do--compare different bodies of data. It's as if we think all the answers are there in a single survey. But what of the poll that says most Americans believe in the Bible literally vs., say, the poll that reveals most people don't even know Genesis is the first book of the O.T.? Shouldn't we critically compare one set of findings against the other?

People have got to stop reading so much into data, especially isolated pockets thereof.

[bigbluenat4]

In the first part it sounds like you might be referring to the mannity?

[SteveDenver]

Anyone who worships the image of a man nailed to a cross and loves torture-porn movies like Passion of the Christ is bound to think that mangling the human body is A-OK. Christianity is a blood cult.