Dems: Opportunity As Gay Marriage Acceptance Grows

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LIZ SIDOTI | May 2, 2009 06:57 PM EST | AP

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FILE - This April 28, 2009 file photo shows gay rights advocate Matthew Arnold-Lloyd of Albany, N.Y., right, meeting nose to nose with an unidentified man opposed to gay marriage during a rally outside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y. Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base. (AP Photo/Mike Groll, File)

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base.

In recent weeks, Vermont and Iowa have legalized same-sex marriage, while New York, Maine and New Hampshire have taken steps in that direction. Polls show younger Americans are far are more tolerant on the issue than are older generations. For now at least, the public is much more focused on the troubled economy and two wars than on social issues.

In addition, over the past decade, public acceptance of gay marriage has changed dramatically.

A Quinnipiac University poll released last week found that a majority of people questioned, by a 55-38 percent margin, oppose gay marriage. But it also found that people, by a 57-38 percent margin, support civil unions that would provide marriage-like rights for same-sex couples, indicating a shift toward more acceptance.

With congressional elections next year, Republicans, Democrats and nonpartisan analysts say the changes benefit Democrats, whose bedrock liberals favor gay unions, and disadvantage Republicans, whose conservative base insists that marriage be solely between a man and a woman.

"This is not a sea change. This is a tide that is slowly rising in favor of gay marriage," creating a favorable political situation for Democrats and ever-more difficulty for Republicans, said David McCuan, a political scientist at Sonoma State University in California.

Democrats have a broader base filled with more accepting younger voters, as well as flexibility on the issue. Hard-core liberals support gay marriage, while others, including President Barack Obama, take a more moderate position of civil unions and defer to states on gay marriage.

Conversely, the GOP base is older, smaller and more conservative. Republicans have no place to shift on the issue but to the left, because the party has been identified largely with its rock-solid opposition to gay marriage and civil unions. Also, the GOP has no titular head setting the tone on this or other issues.

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In recent months, proponents have used state legislatures and court challenges to legalize gay marriage, mindful that the majority of the public still isn't supportive and successful ballot measures would be less likely.

Because of high court rulings, gay marriage now is legal in Iowa, Massachusetts and Connecticut. A Vermont law allowing gay marriage will take effect in September. New Hampshire and New Jersey, where same-sex couples can enter into civil unions, are considering gay marriage legislation. So are Maine and New York.

Political insiders no doubt will pay close attention to developments in Iowa and New Hampshire, early presidential voting states, to see how the issue plays out in the run-up to the 2012 presidential election.

Despite the changes, gay-marriage opponents are buoyed by a voter initiative in California that blocked the state from allowing gay marriage, and by the 29 states where voters have approved state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage.

For years, the GOP and its conservative base has used its opposition to gay marriage to drive Republican turnout in elections and marginalize party moderates. Measures defining marriage between a man and a woman that were on ballots in a slew of states in 2004 were widely credited with boosting the number of conservative voters, giving Republican George W. Bush an edge over Democrat John Kerry.

But there's been conflicting evidence since then over just how much that contributed to Bush's victory.

What's certain is that opposition to gay marriage for decades has been a potent tool for the GOP in rallying social conservatives. They are critical to the party's grass-roots organizing and small-dollar fundraising.

But as more states accept gay and lesbian unions, there is a debate inside the party over how it should position itself on the issue. The dispute is just one part of a broader struggle within the out-of-power GOP over its identity and whether it should focus on rallying conservatives or attracting supporters from across the political spectrum.

Some prominent Republicans are backing away from cut-and-dried opposition, and some party operatives say it's only a matter of time before others follow suit because the country is changing.

Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman of Utah, a Mormon who is a potential presidential candidate, backed a 2004 constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. But he says he favors civil unions and extending some legal rights to gay couples.

Last month, John McCain's chief campaign strategist, Steve Schmidt, told the Log Cabin Republicans: "Even though a majority of Republicans remain opposed to it, we must respect dissent on the subject within the party and encourage debate over it, and should not reject out of hand and on specious grounds ... that the party might be in the wrong on the question."

The shifting landscape is emboldening the gay-rights' movement, a pillar of the Democratic Party's left flank.

"We are at a tipping point moment," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a leading advocate of gay rights. "The lingering minority that continues to think that the way to win is to hold GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender) people up as a wedge could not be more out of touch."

___

On the Net:

Log Cabin Republicans: http://online.logcabin.org/

Human Rights Campaign: http://www.hrc.org/

Quinnipiac University Polling Institute: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x271.xml

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
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- ChicagoBob I'm a Fan of ChicagoBob 23 fans permalink
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This is very interesting.

Without Bush providing access to the bully pulpit for the Christian right, we are learning there is indeed a great deal of acceptance for equality in the country. Christian right = small minority. It is good we do not have to listen to them, and their hate, so much these days.

This is good, very good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 05/03/2009
- GrowBag I'm a Fan of GrowBag 4 fans permalink
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I love watching The Flat Earth Society squirm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 05/03/2009
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 42 fans permalink
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Laughing out loud!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 05/03/2009
- dengal I'm a Fan of dengal 6 fans permalink

funny

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 05/03/2009

A wise man once said

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And dont criticize
What you cant understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly aging.
Please get out of the new one
If you cant lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin."

Out of the road, conservatives. Thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 AM on 05/03/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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Since the Democrats have a substantial majority in both houses of Congress, President Obama and Congress could pass legislation to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, and to legalize SSM anytime they want. If President Obama and the Democrats in Congress wanted to legalize same sex marriage, they could do it by the end of next week, and there is nothing Republicans could do to stop it.

Given that we have a Democrat President and Democrat-controlled Congress, this is the best opportunity in history to legalize SSM.

SSM advocates should be writing to the President and their Congressmen imploring them to pass legislation immediately. Griping about Republicans is a waste of time; they have no power. Make the Democrats in Congress and President Obama take a stand.

Why hasn't Congress passed a bill legalizing SSM? Why hasn't President Obama pushed for this legislation? Any ideas?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 05/02/2009

Starts with an "R" and rhymes with "secession"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 05/02/2009
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Starts with a "C" and rhymes with "Howard Ice."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 AM on 05/03/2009
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Because Obama has the most laser-accurate political instincts of any Democrat since FDR. And Obama and Congress realize that a bill legalizing SSM would could detonate a major firestorm and destroy much of the support that Obama and the Democrats now have. Obama and the Democrats are way too smart to appease the small but intensely loud group of gay marriage elitists who constantly whine to the media.

Obama and the Dems would much better spend their time and effort advancing the Employee Free Choice Act, since this would be infinitly more viable and affect millions more positively than gay marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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There is no state denying anyone the right to join a union.

There are many states denying a basic civil right to citizens.

You are make a false choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 05/03/2009

Always thrilled to meet someone who calls himself a liberal but thinks by basic civils rights are "elitist". Tell that to the little lesbian in my town who got beaten with a baseball bat by a group of young homophobic boys. If you don't think the two are connected, you are so beyond wrong. In fact, by calling us "elitists", you might as well have helped put that baseball bat in those boys hands right along with the right-wing bigots who spout homophobic hate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 05/03/2009
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 42 fans permalink
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Setting your insults aside John. Obama can do more than one thing at a time. So enough already....a very tired and worn out line of bull.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 AM on 05/03/2009
- Jezreel I'm a Fan of Jezreel 62 fans permalink
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Spot on analysis, John...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 AM on 05/03/2009
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IMHO they should be pushing for both. This is not a zero-sum game!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 AM on 05/03/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 253 fans permalink
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apparently you dont follow politics closely.

The Dems cant unify on passing the Employee Free Choice Act, or the Bankruptcy/Foreclosure Relief Act.

Many Dems are Dems in name only. O is governing from the Center.

AND even if they weren't, it seems there are other issues in front of it.

I dont even know why I am bothering to answer this -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 05/02/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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As I said below, I think SSM will eventually be legal in all 50 states.

I think the president and members of congress know legislation to legalize SSM and/or legislation related to additional gun control laws would not pass. Conservative Democrats could not support the legislation without political risk.

From a political standpoint, President Obama is extremely popular and there is no reason for him to propose legislation that will likely fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 05/03/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

because he does not want a defeat this quickly

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 05/02/2009

Since you posted this same exact comment twice I'll post my same exact reply twice:

It's called "wanting to win in 2012".

Gay marriage is an inevitability, but before it goes national I think it's going to take another generation or two. Every generation is more accepting and tolerant. Most people my age have no problem with homosexuality. The kids growing up now will be even more accepting, and their kids will be way more accepting. When all of these people can vote, bam, it's over.

It'd be nice if everyone could have full civil rights in the next 4 or 5 years, but unfortunately I don't think it's very likely. What we'll see is a steady increase in individual states making it legal. There are a few more ready to go right now. It's going to be gradual.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 05/02/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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Except for waiting until 2012 part, I agree with the rest of your comments. I can't predict the future with certainty, however, I think SSM will be legal in all 50 states at some point. I don't know if it will be 5 years, 10 years, or whatever, but I think eventually it will be legal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 253 fans permalink
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I see two to five years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 AM on 05/03/2009
- Usama I'm a Fan of Usama 25 fans permalink
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Gay marriage is NOT equal to interracial marriage. Race is a benign characteristic with no genetic distinctions- race doesn't even medically exist except as a medical risk factor. 'Race' does not shape behavior. Gaydom is all about behavior. But since the most power advocates for gay marriage are white men, its no wonder it keeps resurfacing and gaining support.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 253 fans permalink
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hypothalamus anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 05/02/2009
- YR I'm a Fan of YR 6 fans permalink
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Just let it go. Everyone should have equal rights, including people of color who are homosexual. Not everyone, gay or straight, is wild about marriage. But those who are should be entitled. What does it profit you to keep them from living their lives? "Gaydom" is all about sex the way "Straightdom" is. Sexuality is a part of the human condition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 PM on 05/02/2009

Homosexuality is also a "benign characteristic"....it's no more relevant than the color of someones hair. Yes, it is about "behavior", but it's a harmless behavior that has zero negative effects, so....who cares?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 05/02/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

i don't need to cover that life style with health care coverage paid for by my business.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 05/02/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

agreed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 05/02/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 227 fans permalink

Of course you agree, because he's wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 05/03/2009
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 42 fans permalink
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Gay marriage concerns all Americans. It is about the personal freedom. Liberty, the inalienable right to choose that which is within the zone of privacy where the government does not belong. It matters not that the desire to enter into a same sex marriage is born out of choice or genetics. This freedom belongs to us all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 05/02/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

i draw the line when it costs me money

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 AM on 05/03/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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To those saying "well we should all just have civil unions", please remember: the religious right brought this on you.

They have fought civil unions every step of the way, and continue to do so. Now some are offering civil unions as a last ditch effort to preserve marriage for just themselves.

Forget it. You might have had civil union instead of marriage for all if you'd been decent people to begin with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 05/02/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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Since the Democrats have a substantial majority in both houses of Congress, President Obama and Congress could pass legislation to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, and to legalize SSM anytime they want. If President Obama and the Democrats in Congress wanted to legalize same sex marriage, they could do it by the end of next week, and there is nothing Republicans could do to stop it. Given that we have a Democrat President and Democrat-controlled Congress, this is the best opportunity in history to legalize SSM. SSM advocates should be writing to the President and their Congressmen imploring them to pass legislation immediately. Griping about Republicans is a waste of time; they have no power. Make the Democrats in Congress and President Obama take a stand. Why hasn't Congress passed a bill legalizing SSM? Why hasn't President Obama pushed for this legislation?

What do you think?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 05/02/2009

It's called "wanting to win in 2012".

Gay marriage is an inevitability, but before it goes national I think it's going to take another generation or two. Every generation is more accepting and tolerant. Most people my age have no problem with homosexuality. The kids growing up now will be even more accepting, and their kids will be way more accepting. When all of these people can vote, bam, it's over.

It'd be nice if everyone could have full civil rights in the next 4 or 5 years, but unfortunately I don't think it's very likely. What we'll see is a steady increase in individual states making it legal. There are a few more ready to go right now. It's going to be gradual.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Simple:

Congress isn't wholly behind it, and neither they nor Obama want expend political capital on it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 05/03/2009
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 42 fans permalink
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It all boils down to timing, politics and the winds of change. Americans who support Gay marriage must continue to press for change in every state. When the press is strong enough, Obama will lend his hand. Obama is a great politician and a very decent man.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 05/03/2009
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I married. But for very specific reasons. Property, children and the commitment that he would help with both.

We have worked together, and now with 20 years together, none all wonderful, I know that if the relationship DOES tank, not that it is, I am protected by the state laws for marriage.

I believe, that while it is insane to marry, I count myself insane, it is not just for hetero sexuals. It is for anyone stupid enough to want it.

The divorce rate has been at 50% for a very long time. This is my second marriage for that matter. Famous same sex couples have declared eternal love publicly and then broken up, publicly.

My parents divorced when I was a teen.

If they want it, any two should be able to marry, G-d help the fools.

I am such a fool, but now, I am a protected fool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 PM on 05/02/2009
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Good news- Let them have the same rights to be equal to lave and care for eath other- Insurance, Health matters anything else a straight people have- To merge lives with whom one choices for the rest of a olng productive live together as a couple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 05/02/2009
- SteveS I'm a Fan of SteveS 18 fans permalink
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Gay people have been creating families for generations. Some estimates put the number of children being raised by one or more gay parents at over 7 million in this country alone.

These families need and deserve equal protection and equal access to the benefits, rights and privileges bestowed upon other marriages (via the governmental recognition of marriage).

No gay couple has ever tried to force a religious leader to marry them. Ever. Anywhere in the world.
It is the secular government's recognition we seek.

But even putting that aside, when does one person's religious liberties override another person's basic civil and human rights? Religious liberties should be important but not allowed to infringe on another human being's civil liberties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 05/02/2009
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Notice that the fundamentalists go on about how important it is for children to have the benefits of being raised by married parents, but want to leave those 7 million kids out in the cold.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 AM on 05/03/2009
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And say nothing about all the homeless gay kids because their parents threw them out for being gay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 05/03/2009
- MarkBoston I'm a Fan of MarkBoston 18 fans permalink
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how about all the kids who were torn apart by divorcing heterosexual parents ? Where is the fundamentalists outrage over divorce ??? The breaking of a sacrament is not a sin ??? OH WAIT.. it's THEIR sin ..ooops move on folks ... nothing to look at here !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 AM on 05/03/2009
- SworldPeas I'm a Fan of SworldPeas 5 fans permalink

"Gay Marriage" is religious dogma turned in to politics. In the eyes of the government there is no such thing as "gay marriage" your either married or your not. A marriage contract could be beneficial to any two consenting adults regardless of sexual orientation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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that's why i try to say "marriage equality", which i hope will soon be redundant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 253 fans permalink
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that is what we call it in VT..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 05/02/2009
- proggirl I'm a Fan of proggirl 113 fans permalink
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At least they've finally dropped the tired old saw that gays can't marry because they're too promiscuous.
That one used to slay me. "You can't commit to each other by law, but you have too many partners."
Nice to watch hypocrisy evolve.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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gays have a higher rate of depression, and are more susceptible to schoolyard bruising, and making parents reject them, and are more likely to not already be able to get married, and they have no proven track record of marriage success.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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On June 12, 2007, Mildred Loving issued a rare public statement, which commented on same-sex marriage, prepared for delivery on the 40th anniversary of the Loving v. Virginia decision of the US Supreme Court. The concluding paragraphs of her statement read as follows:

“Not a day goes by that I don't think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the 'wrong kind of person' for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people's religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people's civil rights.

I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That's what Loving, and loving, are all about."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 PM on 05/02/2009

Thank you for this reference.

Warmly,

Paulie Sabol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 PM on 05/02/2009
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Thank you. I am always citing the Loving opinion when I argue with the "civil unions are fine for them" proponents. Mrs. Loving's eloquence is exactly what every American needs to be listening to and ruminating on; how do we want to treat ALL the citizens of our nation? Good on ya here for posting this quote!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 AM on 05/03/2009
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All I need to do to wonder when gay marriage will be allowed all over the United states is look at my clock and watch the time ticking down.

Time is never on your side conservatives

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 05/02/2009
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I don't think it really matters whether you agree with gay marriage or not, I think all that matters is that America separates church and state, why are we still arguing about this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 05/02/2009
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I agree marriage is a religious thing and should not be a part of the government to begin with. There should be no arguement. Civil Unions for all from the governement and if you want to be married then you need to go to your church if you belive in God.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Then you should fight for that.

I'm content to continue to work on equal marriage rights - which will come about far sooner than your fantasy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 05/02/2009

This is ridiculous. Millions of Americans are married without any involvement from a church. Marriage is not only a religious term, and it never will be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 612 fans permalink
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"I agree marriage is a religious thing"

No, it's not. In some countries around the world civil marriages vastly outnumber the religious ones (Japan being the prime example.) And the more people will be educated, the less they will want to be religious. The US has religiosity levels comparable to Iran and Saudi Arabia. Not at all in line with Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan etc., where religiosity has been steadily declining over the last 50 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 05/02/2009

Historically, despite the right's efforts to re-write history, marriage was initially a civil contract and didn't have a thing to do with religion. The churches took it over for political reasons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 AM on 05/03/2009
- 9liberal I'm a Fan of 9liberal 33 fans permalink
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AMEN!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 05/02/2009
- 9liberal I'm a Fan of 9liberal 33 fans permalink
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AMEN!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 PM on 05/02/2009

There is no rational reason for gay marriage to be illegal.

It hurts nobody. It hurts nothing. There is not one single negative consequence.

You can not morally justify denying civil rights to Americans solely due to something as irrelevant as sexuality. It's absurd.

Gay marriage will happen in this country within our lifetimes. Every single generation is more tolerant than the one preceding it. It's absolutely inevitable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 612 fans permalink
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Unfortunately, ha.tred isn't rational...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 05/02/2009
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Fortunately
we don't have to listen to Canadian Socialists!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 05/04/2009
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Will gays demand to be married in the churches that do not condone the life choices or these marriages that do not hurt anything or have negative consequences? I suggest that gays will force the some churches to marry them or face lawsuits. So your statement is absurd.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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not gonna happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Your suggestion is absurd.

Point to a church that has been forced to marry an atheist. Find a Catholic church forced to marry a Muslim, or a Mosque forced to marry a Jew.

You won't because churches marry as they choose. Churches don't even have to marry their own congregants.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 253 fans permalink
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that is just silly. where do you get this stuff?

try turning R us h off for awhile..

better for your blood pressure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 05/02/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 203 fans permalink
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1) Absurd.

2) Why would they want to?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 AM on 05/03/2009
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 42 fans permalink
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What a gross thought for this gay person. I hate churches. They seem to be the last place you will find God.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 05/03/2009
- bannorhill I'm a Fan of bannorhill 33 fans permalink

No rational reason other than 64% of American voters given the opportunity have voted against it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Irrelevant. Civil rights are not generally decided by popular vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 PM on 05/02/2009

That isn't a reason. We, as American citizens, absolutely do not have the right to deny civil rights to other American citizens.

Slavery was always wrong, even when a majority supported it. This is about ethics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 05/02/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 203 fans permalink
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Democracies protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority.

If we are free, we're all free. If one is not free, none are free.

If civil rights were really subjected to majority whim, then you could lose your rights too one day when the tide turns. And that may well be the karma you are making for yourself!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 05/03/2009
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