Dems: Opportunity As Gay Marriage Acceptance Grows

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LIZ SIDOTI | May 2, 2009 06:57 PM EST | AP

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FILE - This April 28, 2009 file photo shows gay rights advocate Matthew Arnold-Lloyd of Albany, N.Y., right, meeting nose to nose with an unidentified man opposed to gay marriage during a rally outside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y. Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base. (AP Photo/Mike Groll, File)

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base.

In recent weeks, Vermont and Iowa have legalized same-sex marriage, while New York, Maine and New Hampshire have taken steps in that direction. Polls show younger Americans are far are more tolerant on the issue than are older generations. For now at least, the public is much more focused on the troubled economy and two wars than on social issues.

In addition, over the past decade, public acceptance of gay marriage has changed dramatically.

A Quinnipiac University poll released last week found that a majority of people questioned, by a 55-38 percent margin, oppose gay marriage. But it also found that people, by a 57-38 percent margin, support civil unions that would provide marriage-like rights for same-sex couples, indicating a shift toward more acceptance.

With congressional elections next year, Republicans, Democrats and nonpartisan analysts say the changes benefit Democrats, whose bedrock liberals favor gay unions, and disadvantage Republicans, whose conservative base insists that marriage be solely between a man and a woman.

"This is not a sea change. This is a tide that is slowly rising in favor of gay marriage," creating a favorable political situation for Democrats and ever-more difficulty for Republicans, said David McCuan, a political scientist at Sonoma State University in California.

Democrats have a broader base filled with more accepting younger voters, as well as flexibility on the issue. Hard-core liberals support gay marriage, while others, including President Barack Obama, take a more moderate position of civil unions and defer to states on gay marriage.

Conversely, the GOP base is older, smaller and more conservative. Republicans have no place to shift on the issue but to the left, because the party has been identified largely with its rock-solid opposition to gay marriage and civil unions. Also, the GOP has no titular head setting the tone on this or other issues.

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In recent months, proponents have used state legislatures and court challenges to legalize gay marriage, mindful that the majority of the public still isn't supportive and successful ballot measures would be less likely.

Because of high court rulings, gay marriage now is legal in Iowa, Massachusetts and Connecticut. A Vermont law allowing gay marriage will take effect in September. New Hampshire and New Jersey, where same-sex couples can enter into civil unions, are considering gay marriage legislation. So are Maine and New York.

Political insiders no doubt will pay close attention to developments in Iowa and New Hampshire, early presidential voting states, to see how the issue plays out in the run-up to the 2012 presidential election.

Despite the changes, gay-marriage opponents are buoyed by a voter initiative in California that blocked the state from allowing gay marriage, and by the 29 states where voters have approved state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage.

For years, the GOP and its conservative base has used its opposition to gay marriage to drive Republican turnout in elections and marginalize party moderates. Measures defining marriage between a man and a woman that were on ballots in a slew of states in 2004 were widely credited with boosting the number of conservative voters, giving Republican George W. Bush an edge over Democrat John Kerry.

But there's been conflicting evidence since then over just how much that contributed to Bush's victory.

What's certain is that opposition to gay marriage for decades has been a potent tool for the GOP in rallying social conservatives. They are critical to the party's grass-roots organizing and small-dollar fundraising.

But as more states accept gay and lesbian unions, there is a debate inside the party over how it should position itself on the issue. The dispute is just one part of a broader struggle within the out-of-power GOP over its identity and whether it should focus on rallying conservatives or attracting supporters from across the political spectrum.

Some prominent Republicans are backing away from cut-and-dried opposition, and some party operatives say it's only a matter of time before others follow suit because the country is changing.

Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman of Utah, a Mormon who is a potential presidential candidate, backed a 2004 constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. But he says he favors civil unions and extending some legal rights to gay couples.

Last month, John McCain's chief campaign strategist, Steve Schmidt, told the Log Cabin Republicans: "Even though a majority of Republicans remain opposed to it, we must respect dissent on the subject within the party and encourage debate over it, and should not reject out of hand and on specious grounds ... that the party might be in the wrong on the question."

The shifting landscape is emboldening the gay-rights' movement, a pillar of the Democratic Party's left flank.

"We are at a tipping point moment," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a leading advocate of gay rights. "The lingering minority that continues to think that the way to win is to hold GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender) people up as a wedge could not be more out of touch."

___

On the Net:

Log Cabin Republicans: http://online.logcabin.org/

Human Rights Campaign: http://www.hrc.org/

Quinnipiac University Polling Institute: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x271.xml

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
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Making the GOP own intolerance is never a bad thing.

http://www.pufferfishblog.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Making the GOP own intolerance is like making the snow own white.

It's pretty natural.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 05/02/2009
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One obstacle to this is that the Democrats can't stop appeasing intolerance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 05/03/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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Gay marriage is currently legal in every state!

Some news media members and others mistakenly use the terms "gay marriage" and "same sex marriage" interchangeably. While gay marriage is legal throughout the United States, same sex marriage is not legal except in four (4) states.

State marriage license applications do not inquire as to an applicant's sexual orientation. In addition, state and federal statutes related to marriage contain no prohibition on marriage based on sexual orientation. As such, gay persons can legally obtain a marriage license and get married. (Among other combinations, a gay man can legally marry a bi-sexual woman.)

The Defense of Marriage Act (DMA) defines marriage as, "a legal union between one man and one woman." Similarly, the Texas Family Code requires marriage to be between a man and woman, and specifically precludes issuance of a marriage license to persons of the same sex. As such, same sex persons, irrespective of their sexual orientation, cannot legally marry. In sum, gay persons can legally get married, however, same sex couples cannot (except in four (4) states).

Before you jump me, please note I merely stated the law and did not state my opinion related to SSM. Do not assume I am for or against SSM, or speculate on my political affiliation (if any).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Thank you for a perfectly useless post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 05/02/2009
- kforce I'm a Fan of kforce 18 fans permalink

LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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waste of bandwidth

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 05/02/2009

Waste of dial-up...lol.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 05/02/2009
- Pyfagorus I'm a Fan of Pyfagorus 151 fans permalink
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Wow, so I guess gays should in fact be *celebrating* that they're not legally prevented (and never have been) from entering in loveless marriages of convenience with unattractive persons of the opposite sex, most likely for purely economic reasons or else to provide a cover for their true orientation!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 PM on 05/02/2009

Whewww...Good one!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 05/02/2009
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Senator Craig springs to mind.... why do they not get this?
Good post Pyfag.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 05/02/2009
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Imagine the anguished lives of all those poor spouses going through endless years of sleepless nights blaming themselves for what they see as a failed marriage. It was instead a doomed cruel farce. The devestating effects of one group subverting another are felt by both.

Let each genuinely be loved by the one who loves them and don't allow the government or churches to deem one okay and one not okay. There are real people affected by real laws and hateful churches' politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 05/02/2009
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A gay person marrying a straight person is not Gay Marriage. It's the result of marginalizing gay people for centuries. It may be legal, but it sure isn't fun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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great! i'm thrilled to share my ilfe honestly and with love!

wait... i have to marry a girl? ew!

no offense, girls!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 05/02/2009

Gay marriage has not been accepted by main stream America and never will be - only the Liberal media pushes this propaganda

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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and there I thought the Nile was a river in Egypt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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this train is leaving without you...

ha tr ed is keeping you and your family down and you dont even know all the opportunity's you've missed because of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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Just a few decades ago:

"Interracial marriage has not been accepted by main stream America and never will be - only the Liberal media pushes this propaganda"

Same ha.tred, different target...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 05/02/2009
- Sparhawk I'm a Fan of Sparhawk 14 fans permalink

being black is the same as being gay? Not even in the same ball park. Nice Strawman though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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Just a few decades ago:

"Interracial marriage has not been accepted by main stream America and never will be - only the Liberal media pushes this pro.paganda"

Same ha.tred, different target...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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"Interracial marriage has not been accepted by main stream America and never will be - only the Liberal media pushes this propaganda"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 05/02/2009
- grey sells I'm a Fan of grey sells 3 fans permalink
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I am a 66 year old early baby boomer. As such, I am a member of the only demographic that does not support validation of same sex loving relationships. I, however, support the legal position that same sex relationships should enjoy the equal protection under the law.. My proposal is that all marriages be civil marriages. The special privledges that clergy are granted by the State to soleminize marriages on behalf of the State be revoked. All applicants to marry must apply to civil authorities for a marriage license which would be granted on meeting certain health standards, etc. and be granted to those who profess their love to each other and willing to accept the responsibilities of a long term loving relationship. If people of religion wish to have a church of their choice soelmnize thier civil marriage in a church, that is their choice. So rabbis, ministers, priests and inmans, etc. may conduct whatever cermonies they wish to conduct for the coouple and their families and friends to honor this importnat life experiece milestone. This way everyone is equal and we respect those who wish for formal religious validation of the their vows.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 05/02/2009
- elmoor I'm a Fan of elmoor 12 fans permalink
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Civil Unions for all is the only thing that makes sense. Government has no business in anyone's religion and 'marriage' is a religious ceremony.

But can't you just hear Republicans on that idea! Immoral Left taking away their right for 'opposite marriage'!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 05/02/2009
- mollymac I'm a Fan of mollymac 19 fans permalink

Actually, marriage is not a religious institution at all. It is a legal and binding contract. If you want a religious ceremony you are entitled to do so. But the millions of people who have civil ceremonies are just as married as those in a church. This is what a lot of people believe but it is only a contractual agreement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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suddenly churches want to own the word "marriage" now that gays dare try to touch it.

did you ever care that straights of beliefs, or lack thereof, that you don't "agree with" were getting married?

the solution is not your 12-line description of marriage, the solution for all is one word: "marriage".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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If and when gay marriage does become legal, my brother and I have decided to marry each other. We will be the first same-sex, same-family couple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:38 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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EWWWWWWWWWWWW you really like each other that much?

TMI

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 05/02/2009

It's when. Not if.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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I highly doubt you'll be the first. And also, you do not need to be married to be a couple, as I'm sure you both already know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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"We will be the first same-sex, same-family couple."

Same-sex maybe, but certainly not same-family. You southern religious conservatives have a very proud tradition...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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We're from New Jersey.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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are you that gay couple from Sat nt Live?

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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"We will be the first same-s.ex, same-family couple."

Same-s.ex maybe, but certainly not same-family. You southern religious conservatives have a very proud tradition...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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This is the typical argument of the religious bi.gots, as showcased by a commenter here:

"The laws of nature trump the laws of man."

Unfortunately for you, homosexuality exists among animals, and therefore, by your own logic, it's "natural."

Can you hear the noise of your silly argument crashing and burning?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:38 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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Many animals also eat their young. Is it natural for humans to do the same?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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how does it feel to know that the iceberg you are living on is shrinking...daily.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Funny how a few minutes ago you were posting about the laws of nature.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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Non sequitur. You can't pick and choose your definition of "natural." If it happens in nature, it's natural.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 05/02/2009
- Pyfagorus I'm a Fan of Pyfagorus 151 fans permalink
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Right... because a contractual agreement of mutual benefit between two consenting adults is on par with having your own baby for lunch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 05/02/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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Humans can think. We know what causing harm to others means, so we don't kill our young. Besides humans are altricial which means they have a shot gestation period and our young are born completely dependent, so humans are wired with a maternal instinct. The species that tend to eat their young are precocial, meaning a long gestation period with the young being fully independent just hours after birth. Now mating is a biological imperative, and a mammal is only going to want to mate with the gender it is attracted to. The two arguments are not the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 05/02/2009

That was probably the silliest comment I've seen from that character today.

Marriage isn't even a law of nature. Marriage is a man-made concept. As such, we can easily redefine it. It has already been redefined in many places, and it will happen throughout the rest of the country in time.

The truth is these guys don't have a rational explanation for their beliefs, they're just bigots, plain and simple. There's no way to rationally justify denying civil rights to American citizens just because of their sexuality, there's no way to rationally explain how people sharing a loving relationship is harmful just because they're of the same gender. Just like how there was never a rational reason to justify slavery, or jim crow laws, or not letting women vote. There is no reason not to allow gay marriage, and I think they know that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 PM on 05/02/2009
- mollymac I'm a Fan of mollymac 19 fans permalink

It's all about dominion over others.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 PM on 05/02/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 217 fans permalink
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Way more natural than Ms. California's boobs!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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How very tolerant and progressive of you to make fun of a young girl's b00bs. I'm sure the National Organization of Women is proud.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 05/02/2009
- mydwyf I'm a Fan of mydwyf 20 fans permalink

None of us have any idea what 'nature' is. All we can say for sure is that, both within and beyond the limits of our sensate bodies, there is NOTHING except FREQUENCY SOUP. Our bodies are designed to resonate with very specific, very limited frequencies of that soup. (This is difficult to explain but immediately apparent upon ingesting lysergic acid diethelmide.) The 'natural' argument is inane as a result. Since everything that we perceive 'out there' is mediated by our own frequency reception apparatus, it is entirely possible that 'animal' behavior is modified by our observation of it.

Or maybe the 'animals' are tuning into the same-sex frequencies generated by human beings . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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Some perspective:
'Well, I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land where you can choose same-race marriage or opposite marriage.And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a white man and a white woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be - between a white man and a white woman. Thank you very much.'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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well said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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between a rich man and a pretty girl

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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As there seem to be some confusion about the definition of marriage, I thought I'd point out that it comes from the French word for husband - mari; thus "to marry" = to give a husband to. Man or woman, it doesn't matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 05/02/2009
- Sparhawk I'm a Fan of Sparhawk 14 fans permalink

In context of the origin of the word, it means "to a woman:

marry (v.) 1297, from O.Fr. marier, from L. maritare "to wed, marry, give in marriage," from maritus "married man, husband," of uncertain origin, perhaps ult. from "provided with a *mari," a young woman, from PIE base *meri- "young wife," akin to *meryo- "young man" (cf. Skt. marya- "young man, suitor"). Said from 1530 of the priest, etc., who performs the rite.

No reference to a Man marring a Man ... You really should take everything in the context it was giving instead of cherry picking...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 PM on 05/02/2009

in my heart and in the eyes of God, I will never accept gay marriages.This is a farce. I am thankful I live in the state of Texas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 05/02/2009

Nobody cares if you accept gay marriage, people care that the law recognizes it. And it will. In time, gay marriage will be legalized nationally, and there's nothing you hicks can do about it.

(By the way, we don't miss you guys all that much if you decide to secede, but would you mind if we keep Austin?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 05/02/2009
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ROFLMAO!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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Ah, Texas, always behind the rest of the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 05/02/2009

its not always a bad thing to be behind. and this is one of those times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 05/02/2009
- AgentMuu I'm a Fan of AgentMuu 2 fans permalink
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You must not go to Austin very often

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 PM on 05/02/2009
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I tried to once, but I couldn't get off the freeway without paying for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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well, nobody's above the law. you'll have to come around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 PM on 05/02/2009
- Patricia84 I'm a Fan of Patricia84 21 fans permalink
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Also slave owners in the South said just the same about blacks being free.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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and how many lives were lost for that godly belief???!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 05/02/2009
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The entire Pageant episode seems as if it were taken from a Tom Wolfe Novel. A gay so obnoxious and affected as to make your average drag queen look like a trucker. And a Christian beauty contestant with breast implants. One wonders what the Good Book would have to say about those?

But what the Prejean/ Hilton contretemps has proven is that Ms. Prejean emerged is the clear victor, and Hilton has made himself the most despised individual in the country. And he has, ironically, but without question, done the cause of gay marriage much harm. The gay community, if fact, has told Hilton to shut up.

And the Right has a new, if less than eloquent, Rockstar.

I myself support civil unions. And I believe that this is the true direction of the country. If you want to call me a Bigot, fine. I would say that you're part of Team Hilton. Who so far is losing big time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 05/02/2009
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"The entire Pageant episode seems as if it were taken from a Tom Wolfe Novel." And one of his lesser ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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Forget about Hilton, Michael Musto is the new leader of the Gay Marriage Movement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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like you would know such a thing.

and you are leader of... the reactionaries?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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as if you would know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 05/02/2009
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Well, I didn't vote for him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 05/02/2009

What's with the right and idolizing people who have proven themselves to be intellectual dimwits? A beauty contestant who can't form a coherent sentence? Joe the Plumber!? Sarah Palin!?

It's a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 05/02/2009
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I agree with you here that Democtrats/Liberals have been extremely lucky with phony-as-a-three-dollar-bill clowns such as Joe the Plumber, or laugh-a-minute pols like Moose Mama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 05/02/2009
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Birds of a feather and all that... The collective IQ of the right-wing is about 70...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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it's pitiful. the country club Reps must be cringing... I'm laughing though.

the REPs provide lots of comic relief and I'll take it where I can get it these days.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 05/02/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 90 fans permalink
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Hilton was a marginal pop culture fluff writer to begin with. He's not a standard bearer--he never came close to that position.

The real misstep is for self-deluded reactionaries to glom onto this spectacularly shallow and plastic giggle queen as a likely spokesmodel. It reeks of desperation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 PM on 05/02/2009
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 266 fans permalink

I'm surre Hilton is all broken up over your opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:29 PM on 05/02/2009
- GayGrandpa I'm a Fan of GayGrandpa 69 fans permalink

IF NOT NOW when? Not getting any younger here! And thank you for your support.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 05/02/2009

It will definitely happen. I can tell you that most people in my age group (early to mid 20's) have no problem with gay people or gay marriage. I honestly can't think of one person I know my own age who is opposed to gay marriage.

On this issue, every single generation has been more accepting and more tolerant than the preceding generation. The kids growing up today will be more tolerant than my generation, their kids will be even more tolerant. When all of these kids can vote, gay marriage will happen with ease

This also doesn't account for older people who change their opinions.I remember my grandmother when she was still alive, she was in her late 70's, once said something to the effect of "Well, if that's what makes them happy, who cares? They're not hurting anyone." She definitely grew up in an era when homosexuality wasn't tolerated at all, and she was able to come around. I think a lot of other people will too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 05/02/2009
- Voltage I'm a Fan of Voltage 10 fans permalink
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My Mom, too. In her 70s she often played BINGO with a gay couple. When referencing them she'd lean over and whisper, "So, I was sitting beside the fegallahs yesterday and..."

She wasn't judging them, it was just her era's way of talking about them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 05/02/2009
- Isis N I'm a Fan of Isis N 13 fans permalink
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Exactly. I'm in the same age group, and I'm all for equal marriage for all!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 05/02/2009
- elmoor I'm a Fan of elmoor 12 fans permalink
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I'm so grateful for your generation... it makes me happy about our future.

Just remember that money is not the end-all to end-all, ok.? We screwed that one up big time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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the more the laws change, the more the people who are law-abiding can do the right thing without rejection, whether they believe in equality right now or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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soon grandpa- try and hang in there. we love you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 05/02/2009
- GayGrandpa I'm a Fan of GayGrandpa 69 fans permalink

Thank you all ever so kindly! I have been in a relationship for three years plus and we have every intention to get married (hopefully) in 2010...no one can tell me that God is not in this...both my lover and I believe we were made for each other...and our only ambition in life is to love each other and to help others...that is our dream and by God it will come true. This is America...after all!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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Come to VT, sweetie, we'd be so very happy to host your honeymoon with the fall leaves changing color- very romantic!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 05/02/2009
- grey sells I'm a Fan of grey sells 3 fans permalink
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Good on you and your partner. Follow your dream. I am straight but am glad you are happy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 05/02/2009
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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i know a few gay grampas, many more gay dads. seems many kids prefer to ilve with the gay dad rather than the mother. i'm sure many kids prefer lesbian mom to str8 dad too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 05/02/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 90 fans permalink
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The panic is building. Can you feel it? It's palpable.

Even Dobson threw his weeping eyes into his hands and ran away. They're losing this fight, and they're beginning to smell it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:48 PM on 05/02/2009

If conservatives study history, they will know they are destined to lose. Conservatives of every era have opposed every form of social progress and civil rights struggles, and they've always lost. Every single time.

They didn't want slavery to end. They didn't want women to vote. They didn't want African Americans to vote, go to the same schools, they didn't want the civil rights movements to succeed. By definition, conservatives will ALWAYS lose, because being a conservative means holding onto traditional "values", keeping things the same or making things how they used to be, and society is constantly progressing. They can delay progress, but they can never stop it.

I think they must realize this at some point. In the end, they'll lose on gay marriage just like how they lost on every other civil rights issue in American history, and in a few decades down the road nobody will give a second thought to the fact that gay marriages exist, and conservatives will be trying to stop some other random group of people from having a civil right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 05/02/2009
- AgentMuu I'm a Fan of AgentMuu 2 fans permalink
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I wonder what the next discriminatory issue will be? First gender, then skin color, then sexual orientation. What's next? Purebreds versus people of diverse backgrounds? Innies versus outties? Coffee versus tea?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 05/02/2009
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Exactly. And since that's been the case forever we have the right to mock and laugh at them. After all, they'll be the ones eating crow once it's all said and done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 05/02/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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"If conservatives study history"

If conservatives studied history, they probably wouldn't be conservative... ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 05/02/2009

Obama is someone who is against gay marriage - and he constantly talks about "our ideals and values" ad nauseam.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:36 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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Obama was NOT against gay marriage back in 1996- BEFORE he was running for Prez.

Googleit if you dont believe me :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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What will the anti gay bigots still living say decades from now about these times?

Will they lie and say they were never against equal marriage rights?

Will they say they were mistaken?

Really, will more than a few hold onto their bigotry even then?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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In a decade, we'll all be remembering how the gay marriage fad fizzled out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 05/02/2009
- JohnButrus I'm a Fan of JohnButrus 4 fans permalink
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Are you saying that all people who defend marriage as currently defined in state and federal law are per se anti-gay?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 05/02/2009

Canada has legalized gay marriage. Not one negative consequence has resulted. Several US states have gay marriage, has do several other nations. Not one negative consequence.

Maybe conservatives should stop trying to interfere in the private lives of others and stop trying to deny civil rights to their fellow citizens. The truth is you might be opposed to it for some bizarre religious reason, but your lives and your own marriages won't be effected by it in any way whatsoever...so move on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 05/02/2009
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Doc,

I am a Canadian resident where marriage is equal...not civil unions...marriage.


Churches ARE -- at PRESENT -- only involved with the sanctioning of a marriage IF a couple chooses.

The Government IS in the business of dispensing marriage licenses as well as legislated the rights/benefits and legal responsibilities that go along with it. Not churches.

In my country, all marriages are equal and legal and all recognized as such by society at large.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 05/02/2009
- Anonani I'm a Fan of Anonani 57 fans permalink
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No offense, sincerely, but you have stated and restated that point. Canada is obviously more progressive that the United States....so stipulated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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thanks for reminding us that sanity reigns just north of the border, a few hrs from my house :)

So it's not such a big leap, folks...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 05/02/2009
- Lee Andrew I'm a Fan of Lee Andrew 346 fans permalink
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I started my "Twitter" account today in case LGBT persons (and/or supporters) are interested.

http://twitter.com/expateuv

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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You can call it whatever you want but it will never be a marriage and you all know it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 05/02/2009
- Idea1013 I'm a Fan of Idea1013 84 fans permalink
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Tell me doc, how does my desire to marry my partner and receive the legal benefits of such a union affect your life or lifestyle?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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It would effect me very little but that's irrelevant to my point. You simply can't declare that a union between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, is a marriage because it isn't and it never will be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 05/02/2009
- Mattie I'm a Fan of Mattie 52 fans permalink

Idea1013 I wish you and your partner much happiness,and hope the day comes very soon, where you will have all the rights that my husband and I have had for the last 27 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 05/02/2009
- lizr I'm a Fan of lizr 257 fans permalink
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come visit us in VT! A honeymoon among the changing leaves would be delightful and we'd love to have you tie the knot here -:)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 05/02/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 23 fans permalink
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I prefer the legal marriage license to your approval.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 05/02/2009
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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absolutely.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 05/02/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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I actually support the government getting out of the marriage business altogether.

Let's have civil unions for everybody and let whatever combination of sexes enter into them and leave marriage to the churches.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 05/02/2009
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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what definition of marriage are you using?

do you even know what a marriage is?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 05/02/2009

Yes it will. The eyes of the law are what matters, not the eyes of a handful of religious fanatics.

You must live a stressful life with so much hatred and anger in you, over such trivialities. Try to lighten up and live your own life. Stop worrying about other people, especially people that are not harming anyone or anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 05/02/2009
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I don't know anything of the kind, Doc.

The law recognizes my marriage and that is what is needed for people to have equal rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 05/02/2009
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