High-Speed Solar Train Considered For Arizona

azstarnet.com:

The idea of a high-speed train that runs on solar power is still in its early stage, but the project's creators are pitching the idea to area cities and potential investors.

The idea is to start a train system that connects Tucson and Phoenix in a first phase. In the future it would extend north to Grand Canyon and south to Nogales. The cost for the first phase alone is estimated at $27 billion.

Read the whole story: azstarnet.com

Comments

[American50]

Just another way for big brother to monitor and limit our comings and goings like europe
"Socialistic Government"

[OkieMon]

great idea....30 years ago solar panel efficiency was 5%....commercially available for houses today is 20% with 30% in the labs.....when nano solar films take over this will be 50% and rising to the theoretical limit of 90%.....plus using some of the electricity from solar to generate hydrogen for use in fuel cells results in limitless energy 24/7......

[KillTheMessenger]

Solar cell efficiency 30 years ago was approx. 15%. Best in class efficiency today is 40%. And if you gave money to Nanosolar... you have my condolences.

:-)

[escribacat]

That would be so cool. We need one here in Colorado too. There is a major traffic problem between Denver and the ski areas. It's a parking lot on weekends. We get plenty of sun here -- this would be fantastic.

[Motes]

I sure hope they test out the aerodynamics of this proposal as looking at the picture that they give they are going to have some significant issues in how the air will get compressed when a 220 MPH train goes by with that overhang holding the solar panels. The mechanical reliability of those panels/overhang will scare me.

[KillTheMessenger]

You are looking at an artistic rendition, not at the real engineering design. I do agree that the design shown is close to impossible. Of course, one wouldn't do it that way, at all. Per mile the design requires no more than 10,000 square meters of solar panel area if we take research's numbers as a zero order estimate. That means we would build one hectare (2.5 acres) of solar area per mile next to the tracks.

[MGhamma]

Pretty cool.

[WilliePilgrim]

I'd prefer a slow speed solar powered train that used open cars on which people could camp or hang out as the wind cools us down and as the train under the power of the daytime sun would cross the magnificent desert on a prepared trackway,minimizing its impact, and stopping during the night so passengers could stretch out and enjoy the spectacular night skies.

[katekid]

get a mule

[EvilCartman]

Phoenix and Tucson? two dumb cities filled with surban sprawl wasting water and resources. A swimming pool in every backyard. Arizona should go back to covered wagons.

[ranchomerced]

The stupid trolly they put in here currently wasting money has to be subsidized at almost $9.00 per ride, per passenger now; What is this rathole going to cost? Nobody will ride it. A major money looser.

[Spiritof1982]

Your meant "loser." English first, then doomsday prophesy.

[DRaymond]

Sorry, but this just isn't a practical city pair for a high speed train link. In particular Tucson only has a population of about half a million, roughly similar to Fresno CA.

For less than double the price of the Tucson-Phoenix link California is proposing a system that will connect Los Angeles to San Francisco with Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, Sacramento, and San Jose included on the way and then an extension to San Diego. That is several times the served population at well less than double the cost.

Of all the new corridors (as opposed to upgrading existing corridors) the California project makes the most sense.

[markinaz]

The GOP rules here in AZ. This will never see the light of day.

[hark]

I meant T. Boone Picken's argument that batteries CAN'T move heavy trucks.

[KillTheMessenger]

T. Boone is an old man with only one agenda: to rescue his failed natural gas fuel station business while scamming billions of dollars out of the US government. He makes good use of the ignorance of the public which will buy a canard like battery operated trucks without even thinking for a second about electric freight trains.

[hark]

The price tag just sounds astronomical for the return.

What we ought to do instead is build up our rail infrastructure and put the trucks on the rails and get them off the highways. That will clear them for pollution free electric cars to run without the trucks clogging the way and beating up the roads and bridges. The rails are much more efficient for moving freight, and the trains could be powered by electricity. So that strikes down T. Boone Pickens's argument that batteries can move heavy trucks - you don't need batteries by doing it this way.

Imagine driving on highways without all those trucks. Imagine how much we'd save on road and bridge maintenance.

[research]

Go that one wrong.

120 Miles * 1800 Meters per mile * 6 meters wide = about 1 million square meters.

at 20% eff that's about 200MW peak.

at 6 hours peak equivalent average yearly power, that's only 50MW for a train that needs 100MWatts.

One run requires 100MWH

One day of sun produces 3000 MWH.

So that's 30 runs.

I was wrong!

It may be a good idea.

[hark]

There are 1609 meters in a mile.

[research]

It's an approximation. I'm not sure the railway is 6 meter wide either. But thanks, I can use all the calculating help I can get. Obviously.

[research]

120 Miles * 1800 Meters per mile * 6 meters wide = about 1 million square meters.

at 20% eff that's about 200KW peak.

at 6 hours peak equivalent average yearly power, that's only 50KW for a train that needs 100MWatts.

One run requires 100MWH

One day of sun produces 3 MWH.

Sorry, the math does not even come close.

This reminds of the music man, and the Simpson's episode where they build a monorail instead of fixing the school.

This is the kind of suggestion that people who want to discredit solar would bring up.

Rooftop solar is the way to go, 3 cents per KWH at 2$ per peak Watt.

See my profile for proof.

[KillTheMessenger]

1 million square meters times 1kW/m^2 solar constant is 1GW. 20% of that is 200MW. Averaged over the year one gets approx. 50MW. More than enough for a train which needs about 5-15MW.

Research, you are wrong by three orders of magnitude. And a mile is approx. 1.6km, not 1.8km. Only nautical miles are 1.825km, but then, we are building on land, not on water.

"Sorry, the math does not even come close."

No, your math does not. Theirs does.

[research]

Dang it, thanks, I should never do math on the fly.

I was approximated, but missed the 1k factor, again.

The article says the train need 100MW
"The train would require 110 megawatts of electricity "

So you still only get 50 MW average.

That's for only one way trip per day.

Still doesn't fly.

[LDnearthesea]

Waiting for the Repug trolls to pooh-pooh this: here's their lame reasons #1 no one takes trains, #2 everyone drives cars #3 waste of tax dollars #4 money should be spent on freeways. So, lots of people take trains, lots of people want more public transportation to get out of their cars, widening freeways is a waste of tax dollars, and more money should be spent on public transportation.

[RegularEinstein]

#5 Trains are for communists. #6 God hates trains. Anytime repugs hate an idea they always throw in the commie or anti-god slant to stir up the masses.