Buffalo Plane Crash First Officer Rebecca Shaw Paid $16,000 To $20,000 A Year

Fox News :

Federal investigators hammered Colgan Air executives about the pay of their pilots -- in 24-year-old Shaw's case, she made between $16,000 and $20,000 a year, according to testimony -- as well as whether they were discouraged from getting second jobs and felt pressure by the company not to call in sick.

Pilot fatigue also is being examined as a factor in the Flight 3407 crash.

Read the whole story: Fox News

Comments

[Peter007]

Being a pilot for a major airline is a great job. Flying a large jumbo jet is easy. The planes almost fly themselves. The working hours are about 30 hours a week. There is really little to do on a flight from LA to NY other than look out the window. The pilots are paid for their experience and capabilities. Problems and emergencies can happen and experience and training is required. The pay is great for the amount of work involved.
Unfortunately, many pilots want to fly the majors and since you are paid for your experience, those with little experience must pay their dues.
To pay every pilot the same would not be fair to those with 30 years experience. To deny young inexperienced pilots a chance to fly would be to insure that in 15 years we will have no experienced pilots.

[noralou]

This is disgusting. How is a Wall Street CEO worth so much more money than someone who is flying a plane with 50 people on it? I know that this poor girl was the co-pilot, but one of her functions was to be there to take over if something happened to the pilot. $16,000 -- 20,000 a year? You get what you pay for. This woman was woefully underpaid for her responsiblities.
SHAME on the airline industry. This goes hand in hand with the fact that garbage truck drivers make more than school bus drivers. We show what our priorities are with how we reimburse people for their skills.

[WarisHell2009]

IN Europe most employers can fire you if you are working more than one job. They want you fit and full attention for the job they are paying you. Thats why they pay more and that is why we get 5 weeks mandated paid vacation per year.

Its criminal the way the USA is going.

Glad I left 20 years ago.

People say, why didn't you stay and try and change it. LOL

Every suggestion I ever made people called me a socialist

[Indubio]

The real tragedy here is that the two people flying this plane have the images splashed across the internet and in the end they will get blamed for the crash. Yes, I am sure the NTSB will point the finger and Colgon and Colgon and perhaps Continental will do the usual corporate mea culpa , pay a modest fine, and promise to make changes. It's a load of crap. The pictures that should be splashed across the internet are the corporate executives of Colgon; people who were mentioned in this article but who will remain largely anonymous. The families of these two victims will pay the price for Colgon's management policies. I'd love to see the NTSB place the blame square on the shoulders of those responsible...the only question is are those shoulder's corporate executives or the flying public that demand low airfares> One could argue that all the airlines are doing is giving the flying public what they demand.

[Openyermind]

Truer words are rarely spoken...

[justanotherbusdriver]

How true,

it's awesome everyone on HuffPo seems to think pilots are underpaid but how many people are going to do research to avoid buying a cheap ticket on an exploitative scab airline the next time they make travel plans?

[wornsmooth]

There are MANY issues involved here, but I will mention only that which you indirectly touched on. That is the "free market" and the "free hand" that Adam Smith refered to. This is EXACTLY what a country gets when it is run on this ideology in almost every aspect of the economy. The philosophy assumes that management has both long term thinking and a prudent approach to it's business. Being a professional pilot since 1976 and for various airlines since 1981, there is little evidence of either the above.Short term profits, employees as "units' and overly optimistic forecasts are as common to this industry as any other.
We will have chickens come home to roost over and ovcer again.

[fleaba]

Just about every friend I had who worked for the airlines in the 80s has taken the early retirement. If you wonder why the airlines are a mess, then check out how much people get paid.
Flying on a lawn dart with a pilot who makes on 20K a year is a recipe for disaster.

[woody307]

Let us talk about this in terms that the industry uses. Continental Airlines is the CONTACTOR. They use Colgan Airlines more or less as their sub- contractor. The CONTRACTOR is responsible for the SUB- CONTRACTORS that they use. In this case, Continental Airlines is responsible for the overall performance of the sub- contractor that they chose and in this case......­Continenta­l did not do their job of oversight. In the end, Continental Airlines is responsible for allowing this tragic air crash to have occurred.

[Indubio]

Do keep in mind that Colgan is FAA certified. Ultimately, yes, Continental is responsible but the fault of this tragedy is entirely Colgan's.

[stuinsf]

You are correct- and Continental will try to blame the sub, and the sub will say that they follow the minimum regs (and blame the dead pilots), and we will all wait for another one of these to happen, and it will, unless we start demanding that the FAA start enforcing the regs, and we start screaming for better minimums.

But as long as the ticket says Continental, or United, or Delta (they ALL do it) Continental needs to have their feet held to the fire.

Was there any improvement after the Lexington crash? Of course not. The FAA had less than minimum staffing at the control tower at that one.

[Hnorc]

You get what you pay for.

[doctorbabble]

Michael Moore talked years ago about how little money pilots make. Since he is not always a reliable source, I looked into it. I have not flown since.

[formerprosecutor]

Maybe we should start tipping the flight crew so they can get a motel room

isn't that just sad(?)

[Openyermind]

No, the sad part is, some of them don't get enough time off to even get a motel room. I've known a few of them that sleep in their planes on occasion. For example, they get 6 hours off and then have to be back at work. That's not enough time to even get a room, much less fall asleep and then get back to the plane the next day.

[randyjet]

That is what we call a stand up overnight. You are limited to 16 hrs on duty, and that so called rest period is actually part of your duty day. Then you can fly after you have 9 hrs off. Plus this article LIED about how much the average captain at Colgan makes. It is around $40,000/yr.

[Indubio]

The sad part is that the entire airline industry survives because they can offer cheap plane tickets. Cheap tickets are what people expect and if the tickets aren't cheap most people wouldn't fly because they couldn't afford to. When I was going to college in upper New England in the late 1960s through early 1970s, I couldn't afford even commuter airfares between Boston and new York so I took the bus. Bus travel these days is relegated to migrant workers and the poor. As always, people want cheap but they don't realize that cheap comes with a huge price and I'm not just talking comfort. In fairness to air travelers however, the FAA and the airlines spend huge amounts of time convincing people that air travel is safe and statistically, it is safe. What they d on't say is that they expect a certain amount of dead passengers because the amount of money it would take to improve safety would simply be unsustainable in a deregulated environment offering the lowest possible fares. if people want greater safety and comfort the market has to be regulated. It's quite remarkable that more planes don't crash and I suspect that is entirely owing to the diligence of the people who keep the jets on the move (not the airline corporations or the FAA).

[Barbi520]

This is the sickest country on the face of the earth. Pilots, untrained, making minimum wage. People dying because we are the only industrialized country in the world without universal healthcare (and have been the only one for decades), middle class wages stagnant for decades while criminal CEOS make hundreds of millions for defrauding consumers and bringing the financial system of the whole world to its knees.

None of this could have happened without the stupidest electorate on the face of the earth who bought the lies of evil Republicans hook, line and sinker. It is truly a disgusting place to live. Americans are stupid and apathetic. They also have no mercy nor sense of justice. That's why we have the country we have..

People who can see torture and after a few 24 hour episodes of propaganda say yeh. torture is okay.

uck

[TAC]

"None of this could have happened without the stupidest electorate on the face of the earth who bought the lies of evil Republicans hook, line and sinker."

That about says it all...

[formerprosecutor]

you forgot to add; the fact we pay entertainers mind boggling sums (icluding sports figures) while we pay teachers peanuts (like the pilots). Child care workers (caring for the "thing" we love most) peanuts. We have parks but unsafe bridges. More bars than cops (figuratively). Our children know morw about video games than math or chemistry. the list is endless. We have taken our freedoms and sqaundered them on instant gratification.

you were so right; what is so disheartening, is that unlike other countries, we made these CHOICES. we have the opportunity to make our own values; and now more people vote for American Idol than the President. We are truly decadent.

[Indubio]

I often exchange ideas with Britons and it's funny but they claim the UK electorate is the dumbest on Earth. I think it's a toss up but do keep in mind that the electorate's ability to make decision is predicated on information and since the game of government and the media today seems to be the keep the electorate ignorant how can anyone reasonably expect the average American to be well informed? I'm not trying to make excuses but enlightenment takes information and getting it requires effort often a great deal of effort. I have felt for decades that the goal is to work voters to a frazzle so they have no interest in sweating the details of citizenship. Hey, the Chinese government last week told its citizens to not worry about earthquake safety standards and leave it to the government to do the right thing...they didn't do the right thing before the recent earthquake but never mind...they will do it now. This seems to be the attitude of our society. It's someone else's responsibi­lity...I'm busy or tired or???

[thepathforward]

IMO this sadly may be one of those classic aviation accident scenarios of multiple discrete failure elements leading to one major incident- Seeming:
- Inadequate training for non-normal flight regimes (icing, stick shaker/pusher response, gear/flap operation under icing, stall recognitio­n/recovery­, etc.)
- Ground training for stick pusher response but no hands on flight training for same
- Not recognizing unusual pitch attitude on EADI/lowering airspeed/impending stall prior to automatic stick shaker/pusher operation
- Breach of 10,000 ft. sterile cockpit rules with off-curren­t-operatio­ns extraneous conversations, and possible consequent failure to properly focus leading to compromised situational awareness. Does the airline routinely and proactively review CVR recordings to check on sterile cockpit compliance?
- Lack of knowledge of proper flap and landing gear operation in known icing
- Crew apparently not recognizing their personal aviation limits in serious icing conditions and diverting accordingly
- Not discerning the seriousness of fatigue/illness relative to piloting and emergency response, and possible lack of particular airline’s regulations regarding same-recall that in the last serious commuter crash in Lexington, KY, fatigue was a major element.
- Unbelievable inexperience of FO in icing conditions (on a Newark to Buffalo route) and fear of same- not knowing what to do in those conditions to quickly assist Captain in emergency situation.

And interject the other aviation concerns that Capt. Sulley Sullenberger noted to Congress in Feb. ’09:

http://transportation.house.gov/Media/file/Aviation/20090224/Sullenberger.pdf

[formerprosecutor]

THnaks for the expert weigh in; which is exatly what I hope for on HP;
I was especially interested that you noted the failure to realize personal limitations.

I guess the consequences would have been they would have been fired; but the other people MIGHT be alive. I am sure they never thought that would happen.

this tragedy is just oppressive

[thepathforward]

Yes this whole thing is very “oppressive” in terms of the terrible grief that the families and relatives of the passengers and crew are going through.

In my opinion, this accident was probably preventable. We must learn from this accident. Training, competency testing, regulations, hiring practices, advanced simulator training for non-normal situations, pilot rest, etc. show a need for improvement, especially for the regional carriers. The worst thing that can happen after this tragedy is to have the event closed with simply a final NTSB report, without the FAA stepping in and proactively addressing the issues brought to light in this incident, and implementing the needed changes and additions. And that includes the points that Capt. Sulley Sullenberger brought up before Congress regarding the direction the airline industry (and that includes the professional air traffic controllers) is presently going in relative to being able to continue to attract the best and brightest in the field, and providing them with the appropriate compensation and benefits for their (high) skill levels, with the lives of so many hinging on their skill, proficiency, and professionalism each day.

And it truly is an alarming and “oppressive” thing to think that a person flipping burgers may have an annual compensation close to that a First Officer with (along with the Captain) fifty or more lives depending on them on each flight. And IMO that’s exactly what Sulley was warning about when he was speaking to Congress-hopefully they listened.

[pickwickianmom]

I long to lay in a meadow at night in summer and enjoy the stars without the distraction of constant jet traffic. They are the pop-up ads of star-gazing.

I think we may fly too much, really.

[formerprosecutor]

move to the dakotas

[missette]

This is just another result of the "pro-life," unfettered capitalism mentality that held office over the last eight years. Once again, when the choice was one between good pay and high safety standards and more money in the hands of the grubby CEOs and other execs, life got the short end of the stick. We all know the abortion issue was just a wedge to keep the ignorant in line. When a copilot of a plane makes the same or less than a manager at a fast food joint, life has become cheap indeed. And sorry Colgan with all your excuses, but you're busted!

[Indubio]

It hasn't just been the last 8 years. Wake up! This has been the rule for the past 28 years including 8 years of Bill Clinton.

[iamvalid]

The FAA, FDA, FTA, and the list goes on forever.

If there are any politicians listening, I would ask you this?

Is there anyone in your agencies with an iota of competence. You start wars halfway around the word and let banks drive our country to the brink and what you act like you are special.

You can't even stop a company from barraging you citizens with unwanted calls while you do nothing. NOTHING. Why don't you just go pass some more laws against your citizens?

[paixa3]

I think the headline is somewhat mis leading. The aeroplane could have been saved? That is a stretch of imagination. With a better trained crew, the chances would have been better to be sure.

But commuting from Seattle to crew within a few hours is INSANE.

[formerprosecutor]

I think they real commercial pilots weighed in earlier; the consenus was that de-icing was not started soon enough and the pulled up instead of down