Luntz Health Care Talking Points Become GOP Message

Mastermind of conservative talking points Frank Luntz has authored a 26-page report advising Republicans on how best to frame the debate over health care reform, the Politico reported last week. Luntz advised that Republicans must acknowledge there's a "crisis" and warn against a "Washington takeover" that could lead to bureaucrats "making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare."

Conservatives are getting the memo.

Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer on Thursday warned: "We will show you three things guaranteed to happen to every American's health care if Washington takes over the system."

In the ensuing segment, Fox medical contributor Marc Siegel was asked if wait times would increase to Canada-style lengths under the administration's plan.

"We are going to be seeing those waits," Siegel said. "We like freedom here. We're not going to be able to get our our liver transplants when we are 60 years old. We're not going to be able to get our pacemakers when we're 90 years old. We're not going to be able to have dialysis...If it is a government plan -- a public option, it's going to mean rationed care. The government is not going to approve all of that because they are going to say it's too expensive."

On Wednesday, Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) and other House Republican leaders penned a letter to Obama that, while cordial, nevertheless used several of Luntz's key themes, as Media Matters noted.

"We believe it is possible, and necessary, to achieve these objectives through common sense reforms without rationing care, eliminating employer-sponsored health benefits for working families, raising taxes, or empowering government bureaucrats at the expense of patients and doctors," the letter said.

House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (Va.) definitely got the memo as well. "There's a health care crisis... when you don't have coverage, that's a crisis for you and your family," Cantor said on BIll Bennett's radio show Wednesday, as ThinkProgress noted. "The answer is not to lay it on Washington, to pump up Washington's role...We all need to be standing up and saying no to a government takeover of our system."

Alarmed Congressional Democrats met with White House adviser David Axelrod Wednesday specifically to counter the Luntz talking points. "Axelrod came to reassure us that they do have a strategy," Sen Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) told the New York Times.

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Comments

[TheThinkerCometh]

We will fight their deceptive talking points every step of the way!

[Icantbelieveher]

Why do republicans fear a public health care plan that will cover those who don't have health care insurance? Are they afraid of competition? And if it won't work, then why don't they just let it happen and then show everyone how it didn't work! Instead they are blocking it because they are afraid it will work.

[KrugnacTheMagnificent]

My main concern is that Dems will push through a public health INSURANCE plan instead of a public health CARE plan. Most people don't recognize the huge difference, and think public insurance will drive down health care costs to the levels seen in other countries.

The best system is a fully nationalized health care system.

The second best system is the status quo.

Nationalized insurance plopped on top of a for-profit health care system is a huge step backwards.

[rich misty]

It's not going to happen all at once... But it needs to start happening now. We may end up with a clunker system the first time... But with the Republican element removed from Federal Government, we can redraft or make whatever improvements needed.

[swift goat pet for truth]

The second best surely is not the status quo.

And the best healthcare COUNTRY, France, does not have a fully nationalized health care system. Nor the second, third or fouth best.

But the BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD may be fully nationalized AND currently resident in the USA.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_health_of_nations

[jinxed]

for-profit health only makes shareholders bank accounts healthy at the expenses of policyholders actual health. Big business, big pharma, and big health insurance companies are NOT the average American's friend but instead are trying to pick the bones left after following the disaster that is/was the conservative policies. Trickle down really works if you are rich because in actuality it was trickle up (all wealth up and all debt down). If you are rich, what's not to like when your tax burden is shoved off the working person.

[conscioushope]

This man does not look healthy.

He looks like a Dr. who Rushlimp would use.

[gladiator777]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba.

So if this is the case why do foreigners and many world leaders come here for health care?!
Because we suck? Why aren't they going to the better countries you have listed?

[Prakosh]

Who was the last world leader who came here for treatment???

[biglover]

If you have money which the people you are referring to do, you can get good health care. It's not the care, its the fact that most people cannot afford good health care and most employed people are on HMOs because PPOs are too expensive.

[Grunty1]

Funny. One of my manager's son's just flew to INDIA to get his kidney removed. The insurance company considered it a preexisting condition (because the Kidney existed prior to insurance coverage)

And then, the Indian surgeon discovered that the US doctors COMPLETELY MISDIAGNOSED the problem!

[sticksnstones]

" So if this is the case why do foreigners and many world leaders come here for health care ? ! "

1) Show me reliable statistics to support this claim.

2) The US is home to excellent private medical institutions where the super-rich, to include foreign nationals, may and do receive the best healthcare money can buy. These people don't worry a bit about sky-high medical insurance premiums. I doubt these institutions are being flooded with foreign nationals, as you infer.

3) We rank 37th according to your post. Deal with it instead of obfuscating around it.

[Americanium]

Your reasoning ability betrays your level of intelligence. No wonder you are so easily taken by GOP talking points.

Just one question for you rocket scientist.­. Does the average American have the financial resources of the world leaders that you claim come here for care?

Second, the last world leader who came here for care was the Iraqi leader. Where else would you have him go considering his circumstance. Oh, the last leader before that? He died, the late King of Jordan.

[KrugnacTheMagnificent]

Insurance companies are like oil companies. They merely facilitate the transfer of an underlying commodity, and tack on a surcharge for their trouble.

Right now we find ourselves in the same situation we were in with oil last year. The cost of the underlying commodity was skyrocketing, while the surcharge being tacked on by oil companies was essentially flat.

The difference is that for health care, there is absolutely no chance that underlying health care costs will stop at the equivalent of $150 per barrel and drop back to where they were 10 years ago. They will continue skyrocketing every year forever.

Medicare-for-all would be like Obama nationalizing Exxon. It might be politically smart, but if we keep buying our oil from OPEC for prices that continue climbing forever, we're not getting much benefit.

We need the same fundamental change in health care that Obama is seeking for energy. We need to transition from the for-profit health care system that is generating these huge price increases every year to a sustainable, single payer, not-for-profit, publicly owned health care system. Simply tacking a government insurance plan on top of the for-profit system won't solve the real problems.

[theone718]

Come back to reality my friend. I agree with what you are saying BUT REALITY IS RIGHT NOW we can only fight for a viable public plan. In the long wrong, as Americans far and wide see it's benefits we can move towards a SP system.

[vreeseque]

Exactly

[KrugnacTheMagnificent]

That's the problem. The "benefits" won't be realized, because public insurance will only be marginally and temporarily better than the status quo. Any administrative savings will very quickly be overwhelmed by the ongoing skyrocketing increases in health care costs, and we'll end up in the same pickle that Medicare is now in.

It's better to confront the underlying problems now and do it all at once. Public insurance is a costly bait-and-switch game that could be disastrous for the country.

What happens if people decide they like the public insurance TOO much? It's like seniors now that like Medicare, even though it's badly broken and fundamentally unsustainable. What happens if you gamble on public insurance, and then the people refuse to accept nationalized health care? We're all monumentally sc.re.wed.

[cinesimon]

your rants are all over the place.

fyi...

[rich misty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGnENTv-9A

The Republican Prophet (profit) on Health Care

[poco767c]

At least they will be in a line for healthcare instead of denied treatment due to poverty.

[2008CaliforniaFan]

Luntz may have put these 'talking points' in a memo to the GOP, BUT there is a problem...­?

When you have Cantor and Boehner talking about it and trying to make sense of it. Pleeeeaz.

There is no way these 'dim bulbs' understand it... let alone be able to speak about it.

As per Mr. Boehner...­.Does the new health care Plan come with Tanning Bed visits..? just asking.

[Icantbelieveher]

And when Boehner ends up with skin cancer from all of his tanning bed visits, will his insurance deny his claim?

[Grunty1]

What insurance? He has socialized health care already as a member of Congress.

[jinxed]

Of course not, the taxpayer pays for his health care for the rest of his life (as well as his wife's, if he has one).

[Grunty1]

They understand it just fine: we arent helping anyone.

The problem is figuring out how to fight it without saying that.,

[mightyhead]

Here's a talking point Luntz and the rest of these parasites don't want you to hear:

"The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study by the prestigious Institute of Medicine found that 18,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.

If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not. For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.

We spend about twice as much per person as Canada or most European nations, and still deny health care to many in need. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.­"

[NoOneSpecial]

EXACTLY!!!

[JanSP1971]

The republican want to keep it that way too. They forget not everyone can afford insurance, well they don't forget they don't care. We know there are thousands of republicans that can't afford it either but they don't understand that their party is not now or ever going to do anything to help them get it. All they hear is the fear and hate that the republican talking head spew, they believe they will not be able to see the doctor they choose. I don't know about them but I have no choice really under the health care plan we pay almost 50% of our pay check to have through our place of employment. All I want is the same health care that my mayor and senator have. Don't I too have the same rights as they have? I'm not asking for it to be free like theirs, just a a cost I can afford.

[gladiator777]

Ya, its rationed by time in universal health care systems, where you have to sometimes wait weeks and months before your ever seen. How is that good for people in critical condition?

[ProudLiberalDan]

We have rationing already. And people with "critical" conditions are far more likely to get treated in a single-payer system than our "system" where insurance companies deny treatments to increase profits and executive pay.

[Grunty1]

People in ERs don't wait, genius.

However, many people are forced to wait months for a proper diagnosis in America every year.

[ladyvader]

My husband took months to see a doctor for a problem with his neck. Took more months to see a different doctor for the same problem. He has had surgery on it, but it took over two years of bouncing from dr to dr to figure out the problem. Not enough specialist in the area because several have left because of malpractice insurance is too much for some doctors to pay.

So what's the difference?

[jinxed]

Let's try this again, CRITICAL CONDITIONS AREN'T TREATED THE SAME

[NoOneSpecial]

I find it hard to believe that people are this dense.

Do you really think that the only reason that a gunshot victim is given priority over a case of pinkeye in any ER in this country is because we don't have universal health care?

Stop making a complete fool of yourself.

[ProudLiberalDan]

Thank you.

We already have rationing under the "system" which we have now and which conservatives want to keep.

Health care is rationed by wealth and the ability to pay. And if you have a pre-existing condition, however slight, you are also rationed out of the "system".

Insurance companies routinely and repeatedly deny needed care in order to increase corporate profits and ensure that the overpaid CEO's get even bigger bonuses to pad their already bloated executive pay.

If you favor the current system, you favor rationing. Not only that, there are already long waits too.

Everything that conservatives attempt to scare people into fearing we already have under their preferred "system."

[tiredofthesameoldstuff]

Actually it's more then twice. Plus wait times in the US are on average with the UK and Canadian.

The US is like number 37th with the UK being 18th. Funny how the Repubs are screaming how a failure the UK health industry is when we the US are 19 spots behind. Shouldnt' we want to jump 19 spots up in how good our healthcare is rather then settle for 37th and the lowest in the industralized world?

[cinesimon]

Of course the right's real fear is that reformed health care will take the decision of hot to treat out of the hands of the insurance companies' number crunchers - you know, the all-American, free to create wealth on the backs of ill Americans - and into the hands of actual doctors: the evil socialists who care for nothing but the dirty people. THEY aren't interested in profit, only health care! Therefore, to the right, doctors have NO PLACE in health care!

To the right,. the people they lobby for are practicing freedom.

To the rest of the world who're just trying to live fulfilled and healthy lives, it's called stealing.

[richinkle]

Protecting Profit Over People : The Real Republican Response

[rich misty]

They were for profit before they were for profit.

[gladiator777]

What about all the people in countries that die because they are at the back of the line and die before their number is up? Ya, that sounds GREEEAAAT!

[RealistDem]

Does Luntz's toupee-hair come with a chinstrap?

[sueinmn]

We as a country need to change many ways. Living in constant debt, living off fast food and being consumers of disposable goods not made here. Living in constant threat of wages and no benefits, living with continued loss of manufacturing and outsourcing. Continously electing the same people to office regardless of party, they all need to go! We have become passive to allow this for way too long and we still do little about it. The French take to the streets, they take hostages, they protest loudly. What do we do????????­??????????­???? Get upset more everyday but little else. Waiting till 2010 is too far off to clean house again. We need pro active ethics charges filed, we need to let these peoeple know we are watching and no more will be tolerated. We need a collective voice and Obama has not been that. He is not a disctator, he is an organizer, a peace keeper and he does not micro manage the Senate as needed to do. We need some way to grassroots together by the millions to say NO MORE. No more pay to play, no more turning ones backs on us. No more financial raping, medical neglegance and giving away our jobs. We must act before its again too late.

[gladiator777]

Our population dwarfs canada and other european countries and look how bad the health care is in those countries. And people think it will be great here......­so sad there are so many ignorant people who think this is great, but don't realize their older family members will be the ones to really suffer.

[cinesimon]

Actually, most of Europe has excellent heath care. Certainly Canada's is far better.
Did you know that in Canada, you can loose your job and still get health care?

As for the queues so lovingly quoted by the right: whenever asked for comparative wait times for their accusations, the right avoids having to provide such evidence. Because it ain't there.

America is amongst the worst, by a long shot.

[gladiator777]

What are you talking about? In Canada many seniors are trying to change the health care system because they are getting screwed by it. I guess you haven't kept up with the news there.

[obama20082012]

Really? I know my mom is not suffering on Medicare that is provided by the government. Talk about ignorance! It's the uninsured middle class that is suffering.

[TanzaniaTeacher]

Of course there is no suffering in this country now. If you are correct in your theories why is it that the U.S. has the highest infant mortality/mother morbidity rate in any of the industrialized nations, including all of those that have goverment sponsored healthcare?

[vreeseque]

gladiator777, I am sure you were right along with Hannity and Limbaugh when they bash Obama for not talking more about America's exceptionalism. However, you think we would be worse than Canada/Europe on healthcare. That is the problems with you republicans you all are in constant double talk/hypocrisy. If you believe we are the best and brightest doesn't it stand to reason we will be the best at healthcare.

[Grunty1]

I'll take their "bad" over our "terrible"

[dbailey]

What are they talking about?!!! They have government sponsored Health Care!!!!! They have no business speaking on behalf of americans about health care because they have health care. It's been made perfectly clear that it's just an option! If you already have private care and want to keep it, go ahead. If I have no coverage at all, you bet your sweet teabag I'll stand in line and wait, just like the canadians or whomever!

[graceland9]

Good point.

[Icantbelieveher]

They always talk about standing in line for health care -- what about the people who have no line to stand in?

[swift goat pet for truth]

yes. the French can just walk in and often get same day care, regardless of the problem.

[NoOneSpecial]

Even when you do have health insurance, you often have to stand in line.

Unless it's some kind of urgent need and they can somehow manage to "work you in" over the next couple of days, my doctor office's next available appointment is always at least a month's wait.

I had two MRI's when I lived in the Seattle area. Wait time? 3 months before they could get me in.

[gladiator777]

I hope you never have a serious problem in the future, people die all the time waiting to get care, how is that good?