Washington Post:
In an era when college students commonly take longer than four years to get a bachelor's degree, some U.S. schools are looking anew at an old idea: slicing a year off their undergraduate programs to save families time and money.
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Employers want to see 4 year degrees and a Emplyoyee working towards a Master's degree. If you are concern about students' cost then lower the cost of tuition.
Let make college free!!!
let(s) do...:)
It will be a cold day in Hell before the United States has free post-secondary education.
Perhaps lowering the level of greed and consider the future of the country for a way to allow people to afford the time and money. Hmm?
all they have to do is forgo a lot of the classes that dont apply to the field of study. Those required classes that make the college extra money. I am sure if they reduce the time , they will increase the cost per credit hour to reflect this. Universities are about making money more than making students educated. They are not about to give up any money, or any kind of major annual increases that they depend on every year to increase the Deans salary and personal perks.
But I do know that Jr. Colleges are not only adding a lot of non- degree related classes to the requirements, but they continue to increase the amount of required, non credit accumulating classes every year to degree programs. This keeps the current students in school longer, and makes a lot more money for the school.
yeah, lets pump those kids out into this horrific job market faster.
Right, to "save undergraduates time and money." The true reason is to increase profits: get more students through school in a shorter amount of time and charge them more per year. Same thing is going on in our supermarkets. Smaller package, same price as older, larger package. Leave it to our upper educational system to lie about their intentions.
Colleges and universities recognize that tuition cannot continue to rise in the current economy. Parents have no equity in their homes and loans have dried up. Colleges also recognize that on average, students have considerable free time in each term and that if they are properly prepared, they could take a heavier course load and finish sooner. Colleges also recognize that they have limited housing, real estate, administrative funds, and a limited pool of prospective students. So, if they do not take tuition from student A for his fourth year, but do take it from student B in his first, how does the school make more money? Further, if a student has the extra $40Gs to attend a 4th year, could he not just go ahead a spend it on a master's, or be eternally grateful to the alma mater for saving him the expense?
I don't know about all this leisure time you're referring to... both my kids attended college full time at night while working full time during the day. They NEEDED their summers off from school so they could catch a breather (but they still worked). Not everyone attends college without other responsibilities to take care of. I think that is more the 'average' scenario than what you said above. Especially in these last couple of decades.
Sorry but I'm currently working towards an Engineering Degree, and I fail to see the purpose of me having to take a classes like Humanities. Nor do I think students should need to take two English comp classes.
It is stupid, and it doesn't further my education any, and I honestly feel like it's just a scam so my school can make money off of Text Books, and Credit hours.
Also, why do I need to take Economics? Unless I'm going into an field that requires it. Basic college economics doesn't even apply to real world economics!
Basic college economics has nothing to do with anything ;) But the comp classes, if in academic writing or scientific writing, they make sense. You'll be glad you did.
Maybe so when you read about economics in the newspaper, you can actually understand it?
Maybe so that you can vote intelligently?
Naaah. . . that couldn't be it.
Philistine.
You'll understand why you need two English comp classes after you graduate and start work. Matter of fact, if you get the opportunity, take a third. It'll be one of the best moves you've ever made. Talk to some engineering managers and get their opinion the issue.
if you don't understand the reasons behind a well rounded education, that's really sad.
maybe you should get your money back from the classes you've already taken, because the concept of education is lost on you.
If you don't understand the demands of engineering, you really have no grounds to be so arrogant. Walk a mile in random signal processing, and tell me again about well rounded bs.
Unless you can communicate well naturally (not a trait I've found in many engineers), you're just limiting your options. In a shifting world, it's better to be well rounded and not put all of your eggs in one basket.
Getting a liberal arts degree combined with a graduate degree in economics gave me the best of both worlds (specialization as well as broad exposure to many different areas of knowledge), and ultimately more possibilities for putting food on the table.
The human existence involves thinking of many sorts, and the better educated one is in all ways, and the better those types of thinking are integrated, the more effective the person is.
Look at major achievers in science; you won't find too many without good educations across the board. I was in a finance job where I created a new type of accounting based on fuzzy logic and Saussurean linguistics and a new bookkeeping technology based on artificial intelligence. You never know where you'll be able to make use of your different types of thinking and knowledge. Synergy.
Finally, if you want to get an idea of why English and humanities courses will be beneficial for you, get an English major to point out all of the errors in your post and offer a rewrite than explains your thoughts better than you did.
Come to think of it, three years of effective and quality college education would be more desirable than a four-year college partying.
The expectation of American students for their own future is scary. They have no clue why they go to college, other than to meet someone and have fun (whatever 'fun' means).
The bigger problem isn't whether it's a four-year or three-year college curriculum. The problem is HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION and earlier! That's right! High school education in the US has been very weak and almost useless. Of course, that's not to say that all high school in the US are 'bad'. The problem is the level of quality high school education has declined to the point where the graduates are NOT qualified for or incapable of handling the minimum college-level expectations. The failure of secondary and primary education has been on the debates for decades. Yet, like the health care problems, education gets the back seat while waging war against oil-rich countries seem to take the priority.
But then again, the more under-educated people we have in our society the happier the military gets. They want du.mb people to fight the war that benefits the rich and the powerful, while the rich kids get to spend their "hard" days at.... the country clubs.
I agree.
Ultimately the problem is an overall lack of respect for education. Not just in the schools, but the homes.
Producing qualified and intelligent graduates from a three-year degree is very possible. Oxford and Cambridge have been producing some of the brightest people in the world, all with three year degrees. But, US degrees, as they are, can't be shortened. Significant changes would need to be made. For instance, focus more on developing a small number of key skills: reading, writing, analyzing complex information. Grades should be based on class contribution and participation, essays, and oral exams, as opposed to multiple choice and the like. Maybe stop giving out numerical grades.
Of course, the problem is that all of this requires more individual attention and a higher faculty-to-student ratio, which colleges will be unwilling to do.
Ultimately the problem with this is that you've just described high school.
Let's just change the names and be done with it. "College" is now "high school."
It really makes no sense to me to create three year degrees when most students take far more than four years to complete their degree now. If one is industrious and willing to make the commitment and sacrifices, a three year degree is already possible. I had all my requirements in 3 1/2 years.
However, I find most students today assume that they "need" all sorts of things (like cars, cell phones, etc.) which provide distractions from study like jobs to pay for all these "needs". Many cannot imagine coping without these "needs". I guess I'm an old codger these days, because in my time ("back in the day") going to college often meant deferring gratifications in order to get credentials one would need to improve one's lot in life. Taking vows of poverty was essentially the key to getting ahead later. Who does that now?
My other concern with three year degrees is the likelihood of diluting the requirements, like reduced hours and other requisites. If so, these degrees should have a different name, such as the Associates Degrees, rather than BA of BS. Otherwise, those who put in the time and effort to earn a legitimate degree are cheated by having the quality diminished by the new, shortcut degrees.
you hit the nail on the head. The present generation of students is not willing (for the most part) to make any sacrifices in order to earn their education in a timely, cost-effective manner. Many of them have very expensive cars (SUVs) requiring very high fuel expenditures, large screen tvs, expensive video game systems, very high cell phone bills because they text all the time - there is no sense of 'consumption control' among a large majority of students entering colleges.
The technical college in Germany teach at adapted the 3/2 year system a few years ago. During my 12 years of teaching I have also noticed a steady decline in the quality of students. Even during the old 4-year Diplom program, there were no required minor studies. Elective courses have been phased out completely. At the cost of abandoning a liberal education, colleges in Europe are becoming more like trade schools. However, after three years, a Bachelor degree is not all sufficient for entry into the professional work world. Those graduates really must continue with two years of Masters studies.
My secondary schooling in the USA (northern New Jersey, 1970's) was far better than what I have experienced with first semester students in Germany.
This is the next logical step in the dumbing-down of America. It serves the purposes of the multi-nationals and their oligarchs. The general population is to be made into corporate cannon fodder. This is class warfare. There's to be a privileged sect created once again. Say a final farewell to the middle-class.
When it comes down to learning, it's not three or four years that make the difference. It's the student's ability to make those three (or four) years to be as EFFICIENT as possible. In other words, if the student spend two of the four years on drugs and partying, it doesn't matter if an eight-year program would be sufficient. On the other hand, if education is run like a corporation, where profits and optimization (for profits) are the priorities, then it's NO LONGER an education institution.
There's a huge difference between getting foods from McDonnald's or any fast-food joints and quality restaurants with well-trained chefs.
I know some people who get their degrees from on-line "universities". Their degrees are simply as valuable as my groceries coupons - or less.
Who says getting a degree online is as valuable as grocery coupons? You? How pompous.
Fifty years ago, college was not an expectation for most HS graduates. But the WWII GI Bill had changed that dramatically and opened the way for a host of GI’s who, under earlier circumstances, never would have attended college. During the same period, a college degree had more meaning and considerably more requirements than today.
Course loads were higher and requirements for a degree were more complex. For example, semesters were 16 weeks and a host of distribution requirements had to be satisfied, including foreign languages, arts, literature, political science, economics, history, math and sciences, with a minimum of 124 credit hours required for a BS degree.
Unlike most students who undertook a four year program, I finished in three by taking course overloads and by taking a full summer load, while working part time six days per week and commuting 70 miles round trip each day. After graduation, I was well prepared for graduate school.
It was grueling but what did all this lead to?
Eventually to a career in higher education as a teacher, researcher and administrator, which would not have been possible without all those extra “fluff” courses outside my major that I had to take along the way. Among other things, I learned how to handle multimillion dollar budgets, how to assess the workmanship of others and how to be a science writer. I also learned how to appreciate art, literature and music.
But my most important find as an undergraduate was my wife.
Really, our society needs more people to think for themselves & educate themselves. It's easier than ever with the internet. If you want to be a lawyer or doctor or something like that, go to school. But there are plenty of ways for smart people to have a very lucrative, and more importantly, enjoyable career. Try out a few different things.
It makes me think of Pink Floyd-
We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. No dark sarcasm in the classroom. Teachers leave those kids alone. Hey, Teacher leave those kids alone.
LOL. Give me a break. The X generation is going to teach themselves.
I'll bet wikipedia is your main research well.
I'm 50 years old (like Sally O'Mally, I'm not a gal that tries to hide her age). I have started, developed, and sold for a profit, several businesses. I currently run a successful, profitable business. I have some college, but no degree, and I make more money than my husband ever has, even though he has a doctorate in history, and retired at the top of his field.
A degree isn't a ticket to a good job.
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First Posted: 05-23-09 01:03 PM | Updated: 05-23-09 01:12 PM