New York Times:
The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials.
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It's so much easier to act the surprised and innocent bystander when the torture is done by somebody else - "I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to hear that [fill in the country's name here] used practices condemned by the Geneva Convention during their questioning of this person!"
That is simply speculation. The Americans are well trained at torture and it is less expensive for them to just do it themselves as they have done in the past for quite a long period of time now. A couple of hundred years.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
Good Cop Bad Cop .... Not really that different, except the Public Relations image.
Part I
This article further demonstrates that the President is not allergic to keeping utilitarian Bush policies. It is important for this forum to understand a basic concept of national security policy: there is no such thing as a democratic
Bottom-line: many of Bush's policies worked and the President will continue them.
Let's understand this article in context: soon after his inauguration, the President signed an executive order that closed CIA black sites, subsequently adopting temporary holding sites ("facilities used only to hold people on a short-term, transitory basis"). Also around the same time the administration disclosed that it was considering a "classified loophole" that would allow the CIA to use some interr0gation techniques not specifically authorized by the Pentagon. 'This loophole' would come in annex to the ArmyFieldManual. An interrogation taskforce is set to report to the President late this summer, so expect some alternative techniques (think 'enhanced') to be covertly adopted.
While the article is NOT describing renditi0ns because individuals are being interrogated in their target area and not 'gh0sted' or transported, one underlying principle remains the same: having foreign intelligence services interr0gate low/mid-level terr0rists.
In terms of value, there isn't much of a contr0versy because many allies (in particular Egypt and Jordan) are known for their interr0gation skills and can easily expl0it lower-level operatives. Furthermore, in many cases it is preferable that Foreign Intel elements capture and interr0gate these bottom-tier operatives.
Part II
After policy is finalized, expect future high-value collars to be taken into CIA custody at a temporary holding site. This is because many CIA officers say that they got the best intelligence when they interr0gated these suspects as opposed to when turned over to an Arab ally. Should the on-site team deem it necessary, they will use the 'alternative' techniques reserved for the CIA. Where these det.ainees will go after being drained is still up in the air (I would wager on a render).
Another thing to note: for 2 reasons, there hasn't been too many high-value terr0rists nabbed over the past few years.
One, the Bush Administration's policies were very effective in rounding up important AQ operatives. Most high-values were collared circa 2002-2005, including several catalyzed by KSM's waterb0arding (yes, that is absolutely factual). Second, most of AQ (old and new) is now loitering somewhere in Pakistan, primarily FATA.
For several reasons, the latter area is generally inaccessible for apprehensions to both the CIA and US Forces. However, the previous administration implemented another policy to address this issue; a program which Obama has similarly accelerated: three-letter predat0rs.
"Now relying"? This article could have been written at least 6 years ago.
Rendition began under Clinton and continued through Bush and the current President double speak.
Okay, call me paranoid, but it's disturbing to me that Canadians hold the US in such poor regard after the last 8 years of Bush. What must the rest of the world think of us? Bush left office with the lowest approval ratings of any US president, did he not? But now his approval rating seems to have increased, as has Cheney's. And please don't ask me for links--I just heard this on the news this week. What's up with that? And now I'm starting to hear discouraging remarks about Obama--that he's just like Bush? I just don't get it.
Some of us tend to become impatient.
The Canadians haven't been too happy with their own politicians. Their last election had the lowest turn-out ever.
That was one poll done by Right Wing CNN. All other still have Cheeeeney at 18-19%. CNN disgraces itselft on a daily basis. Even Ted Turner is embarrassed.
Does anyone else remember that Canada put the US on it's Terror Watch List as a Country that promotes torture? Oops, guess they were correct.
Who gives a sh*t?
On this (supposedly) SOLEMN weekend... one set aside to give thanks to our fallen for their sacrifices, we tend to forget the "survivors
There are those amongst us that would, for whatever personal prurient reasons...
They'd be MORE than happy to deny our troops the same moral high ground.. the SAME assurances that they, if captured, would be treated humanely.
"Support the Troops" to them is simply a car magnet... a lapel pin.. a bumper sticker... but these VERY SAME "patriots" would rather not pay another PENNY in taxes to give them the PROTECTION that needed..or the HELP they need NOW.
COWARDS.. all of them.
Great song. Thanks.
I'll see your Phil Ochs and raise you a John Prine :)
;)
Does that add up to one Townes Van Zandt?
oops, missed the link
http://www
so now you sub contract out your dem ented and sad istic habits, gee thats much better. What a he ll hole the U*S has become and remains to be. You are among the worst on the planet. Proud days for the U*S*A
http://www
"The memorandum came to light as more details emerged of the extent of deta inee ab use. Formal statements by inm ates published yesterday describe hor rific treatment at the hands of gu ards, including the ra pe of a teenage Ir aqi boy by an ar my translator.
http://raw
According to Bradley, when Moh amed was first held at a C*I*A prison in Mor occo, “They started this monthly treatment where they would come in with a scal pel or a raz or type of instrument and they would slash his gen itals, just with small cuts.”
Little Known Mili tary Th ug Squ ad Still Br utal izing Pris one rs at G itm o Under O>b>a>m>a
http://www
Sc ahill reports U*S to rtu res det ain ees with ge rm wa rfa re and gasoline en em as
http://oxd
Didn't read the article, did you?
read it right through, The U*S is not believable anymore when it comes to their assurances. Truth and law mean nothing down there.
I'm willing to bet that you have not read any of the links I posted. Facts are poison to "believers".
Here's hoping that the tally ENDS next Memorial Day....
http://www
.
What is the moral imperative in protecting American lives from terrorism? Is it a higher imperative than protecting the comfort of murdering terrorist? Personally I would not sacrifice one Amerian life, not even yours, to protect a single terrorist from an EIT. Because quite frankly, no terrorist is worth the life of any Amerian (and that includes the multitude of nitwits who regularly post on this site).
The "moral imperative" is that WE ARE NOT THEM.
Okay, I understand your anger and desire for punishment. But America does NOT punish people (and these are in fact people we are talking about) until they are (a) tried and (b) convicted. It's becoming more and more obvious that the "EIT" (oh heck, let's call it what it is, torture) were used, not to get ANY meaningful information, but in fact to vent our anger and frustration and desire for vengeance and need to punish SOMEONE/ANYONE on those terrorists we actually managed to capture.
If these people are tried and convicted of their crimes, then they can and should be punished in accordance with the law. I don't think waterboarding is one of our forms of post-conviction punishment.
For our kids.....
http://www
Peace.
You sir are no mensch. Given your predilection for making monemental errors of judgment, I'm guessing you meant "minsch" but even that is questionable.
LOL!!!!
Which "errors" are you referring to SPECIFICALLY???
Anybody besides me notice the mismatch between the leg irons and the expensive chair?
Looks like an Office Depot special to me.
probably is and knowing the US you probably gave Haliburton a 150 grand for it.
Sheesh. Do-nuthin America is even outsourcing THESE jobs!?
Didn't read it, did ya?
It's ok.
who was president 10 months ago?
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First Posted: 05-23-09 03:08 PM | Updated: 05-23-09 03:25 PM