Salon:
Retired Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba denied reports that he has seen the prisoner-abuse photos that President Obama is fighting to keep secret, in an exclusive interview with Salon Friday night.
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UK tabloids are more fun that US'
i think of my own shortcomings
My own need for forgiveness
I think about how quickly, as the great comedian J. Winter's once said
It was just one of those things that got out of hand....
Everywhere i look people are stressed, selfish, and scared
I think about how revenge always only digs two graves
I look to the right, insane
I look to the left, the same..
and I wonder and I pray let the madness end
Father of Light's
In me...
I'm sorry, I don't really understand your poem. Are you asking the Creator of Mankind to ease the strife between the two sides on the issue of whether or not it was right for George W. Bush to solicit legal cover to order the torture of our nation's prisoners, up to and including the rape of children? You really think God's going to treat that like some football game, where He just loves both sides equally?
'Cause me, I think this kind of thing was the kind of thing Jesus was trying to stop. Now it's up to us.
I guess the White House was right. The British press made sh#$ up. They seem to be as bad as US press on this. Shameful.
It is hard to know what to believe about these photos.
How do you draw that conclusion from an article stating that the General wants to be clear that he does not know which of the over 2,000 abuse photos he saw, many depicting rape, are in the 40 that Obama is suppressing the release of? How do you leap from that small correction to the idea that no rape occurred? Nobody wants to believe it, but it's true and we have to deal with it.
L.I.A.R!
There're many sincere but misguided people that believe the more embarrassing, provocative photos of torture / abuse shouldn't be released, not just now. They include President Obama and General Taguba. It's easy to talk yourself into that pragmatic utilitarian view. But it's wrong, and ineffective, morally, ethically, spiritually, politically, and militarily. It's equivalent to alcoholics who don't want to publicly confess their alcoholism, and by public confession show true acknowledgement for their misdeeds, seek therapy and redemption. Without full open acknowledgement, there'll be no genuine full recovery.
In similar context, it's equivalent to widespread public opinions that postwar Japanese and German populations would feel queasy about publicising graphic photos of war crimes, tortures, and other war depravities committed by their nations and peoples. They would want to ban them from their textbooks, history books, museums, Holocaust exhibits, and full public acknowledgements of the extreme large scale brutalities inflicted on other nations and peoples in their names.
Immediately after the end of WW2, Supreme Allied Commander General Eisenhower proclaimed edict and policy that the German population should be made to walk through graphic remains of war crimes and extreme brutalities committed by their nation and people. Only then could a nation and people truly and fully acknowledge its crimes against humanity, and hope to redeem its culture and national soul. Nothing short of that would be effective people's psychological defense and a nation's spiritual bulwark against another similar bout of mass insanity that visits a nation and people under stress in
Was that before or after the w.a.r. .c.r.i.m.i
Unfortunately, trials of the chief architects and instigators of the war of aggression and the war crimes would not be tried as war criminals, as long as their support and power structure remain in place. Germany and Japan were FORCED to acknowledge their war crimes at international war crimes tribunals AFTER their nations lost in total unconditional surrenders. Therefore this country will have no true epiphany of the conscience in public policies to insure against future recurrence of the same tragic fate.
George W. Bush has just raised a few hundred million dollars to build for himself a "legacy library" in HONOR of his name and legacy! That says it all about what's going on and the public sentiments.
"The actual quote in the Telegraph was accurate, Taguba said -- but he was referring to the hundreds of images he reviewed as an investigator of the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq -- not the photos of abuse that Obama is seeking to suppress."
So, photos were suppressed from the Abu Ghraib scandal? Who suppressed them?
At the time it was Donny Rumsfeld.
http://www
This is getting better all the time ;-)
"No other photographs should be released," Taguba told Salon, because he worries additional images might threaten the safety of U.S. troops.
Isn't that what the troops are there for, to protect America's constitutional principles, chief among them, the right to a free press?
Stop blocking media access to Bush-era history.
Free the Rape and Torture Photos.
How about holding them as evidence for trial?
That's my take, hold them for a jury.
Good idea, but Obama needs to inform the American people the photos will be withheld for the prosecution of the people involved in these war crimes.
This is a better option. The world must know we oppose these t.r.a.i.t.
well said.
people behind abu gharib are getting off too easy. This is becoming obama's shame now. although W is the fountainhead of this disgrace.
The soldiers wouldn't be in danger from mere photos, unless we broke the Geneva Convention and every principle this country supposedly stands for.
Isn't this infuriating, huffpos?
We're missing out on another chance to trash the country...
A: Crimes don't just get forgotten if you don't give the victims justice. They fester.
B: George W. Bush is not and never has been "the country." He was always an illegal interloper in the White House, and I for one am glad we're going to have a chance to put him away for good.
America has been h.i.j.a.c.
Our forefathers were brilliant, but they were not banking on the opposing forces of tyranny--C
And olmossy mentions that some of those rich no-bid contractors (the ones benefitting from a w.a.r of choice) are buying up healthcare interests. Hmmmmmm...
It is time for our mustard seeds to move some mountains.
Loc#hee$d M@rt/N
I forgot , President Eisenhower , saying goodbye, warned us against how Powerfull and dangerous The " Military Industrial Complex" could become when joined with Science (the A Bomb) and technoligy. See ... Eisenhower's farewell address.
In the Founders' time, a corporation was seen as a collaborative of businesspeople, not a separate legal entity in its own right, like we have today. We created legally-real creatures whose only function is to grow larger and larger, and consumer more and more market share, attempting ideally to cover the globe with their widgets. The Founders would have thought you were eating some bad rye if you told them we'd eventually create creatures like that and let them drain our lifeblood.
MISSION C Y A !
The clear implication of NOT releasing all photographs showing criminal behavior in Bush's illegal wars, is that the ones shown in those unseen photos, will never be prosecuted. If the evidence is produced proving their criminality, then prosecutions will have to proceed. And thus, once again, the guilty will remain free, in some cases certainly, to continue as they were.
The reason to release photos is to show the world we are transparent regarding criminal activity, and that we clean up our own messes. By indicating how horrific these images are, and not showing them, it is eminently clear to the world that we protect our own behind opaque excuses of danger to the troops, and have no intention of honoring our treaty obligations concerning human rights and torture. In the end, this is far worse than opnely revealing the depraved activities of Bush Corp in all their dark, dank, perverted excess, and dealing with it. Our stance in the world just continues in a downward spiral, and our ridiculous claims of being a champion of liberty, justice and the American way...alon
We do no good by hiding war crimes...a
I hear what you are saying and am nearly persuaded; however I worry about our beloved sons and daughters and the potential for retaliation at their peril. I too believe the light needs to shine on the dark, dank regions of their abscess of eviI, but to a jury.
I.n.d.i.c.
The potential for retaliation cannot be avoided now. The best way to defuse that potential is to own up to the crimes that have been committed in our names, and atone. The atonement involves bringing to trial those we believe are guilty of these crimes. Give them their so called day in court (probably will take a lot more than a day) and let the chips fall where they may.
The reality of these images may or may not be worse than that imagined by those who we've given good reason to hate us. We say one thing, and do another...
We live in bad times, when so much evil has been done...but we MUST be strong in our convictions, even if it puts us in peril. Those who serve this nation in uniform already know this, and put their lives on the line to defend those convictions. My father fought in WW2 for those convictions. Every honorable war this country has been involved in were about those convictions. If we throw them out now, for the short term goal of protecting ourselves from possible threats, we diminish all those who died defending our Constitution, and our way of life.
Cheney show up with some other photos?
Does anyone believe the NSA \wasn't collecting dirt on anyone possible so that Bushco could blackmail people to do as they wished?
I've always believed that gathering embarrassing personal information to blackmailing political opponents was the primary purpose behind the NSA wiretapping program that circumvented FISA.
I am comming to believe that Everything the Bush Gang said was a LIE. There was no Truth in them.
The only thing you knew when they talked, was that THEY din't have lockjaw.
Absolutely
I think it is so interesting that people are afraid that these hidden photos will cause such damage. Have you taken a gander at those that have been released? Is there someone out there who thinks these have not caused the damage they are all afraid of? It makes no sense. We have sick people doing sick things all the while taking pictures of it all and smiling through and with thumbs up signs. The damage is done folks, now how do you apologize for this. The government's reluctance to show this last batch is ludicrous. It just makes it worse! The people who did this or condoned it should be locked up. They are not fit to walk among us , then someone with bigb alls should make a sincere apology to the world.
You can read it here if you want:
http://cit
Politico never censors like this.
Good read.
Horton confirms reports that unreleased torture photos show rape and sexual assault.
Horton also obtained what he characterizes as “rarely seen Abu Ghraib torture photos,” which can be viewed here. http://www
Thanks for the link, but I don't want to totally ruin my day by looking. I don't think the issues Sy Hersch raised in 2004 and the more recent ones of banning the photos are going away anytime soon. The alternative to criminal prosecution is the Truth Commission proposed by Leahy and endorsed by Pelosi. At the very least, the commission should emerge -- I think too much is converging in reputable online media and the collective American conscience for that not to happen.
http://cro
http://www
Pelosi was clear that she wants an investigation that leaves prosecution on the table.
Those "rarely seen Abu Ghraid torture photos" were previously released and many of them were published on Salon over 3 years ago. They are still available on the website:
http://www
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First Posted: 05-30-09 01:39 AM | Updated: 05-30-09 01:47 AM