Reuters:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Medical bills are involved in more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies, an increase of 50 percent in just six years, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday.
Can I File Bankruptcy Just on Medical Bills? : Bankruptcy Law Network
High medical bills don'thave to lead to bankruptcy - The Boston Globe
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Michael Moore pointed out a long time ago that the main reason people go into default on their mortgages is because of insurmountable medical bills.
The fact that we're the only industrialized nation in the world that doesn't provide health care for its citizens is directly related to the mortgage meltdown, and the current state of our economy. You can't fix one without fixing the other.
Healthcare should be the responsibility of the government like national defense.
I would want to distinguish "healthcare" and "healthcare coverage". The idea that the government would be involved in healthcare specifically frightens a lot of people. The idea that the government could come up with an efficient, cost-effective health insurance system, as well as rein in costs, isn't as far-fetched as people think. As Festus Hagan once said, "You sher can fry an ayg in yer hat. If it's did right."
I don't expect to pay nothing for health insurance, but it would sure be nice if it was reasonable, affordable, and dependable.
"This is no reason to have a single payer health care system. Why are we worried about these people going bankrupt? They had no business getting sick. If I can stay healthy why can't they? Let them pay the hospitals from their grave."
10 seconds inside the mind of a politician.
They had a show on PBS lat year where they went around the world and described different health care systems.
When they got to Japan they asked a hospital administrator how many people went bankrupt because they could pay their bills.
They had to repeat the question. And even then the administrator could not understand. Could not even grasp the concept.
Everyone should see that. And remember it when somebody is spouting about America being the Greatest Country on Earth.
But not great enough to take care of its people.
How many people in Japan are on welfare? The cultures are very different. In Japan it is shamefull not to work and be on the dole... Also Japan has much smaller percentage if illegal immigrants
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=7067
ah... the illegal immigrants! Personally, I'd rather ALL Americans get affordable healthcare, even if that means some of those pesky illegals have the audacity to try to get shots for their kids for free too. Seems like you'd rather deny us all just so you can punish the illegals.
Now this I can comment on! While not welfare, the number of people seeking unemployment benefits in Japan has skyrocketed. As an American, I actually received unemployment after the Japanese company I worked for suddenly went bankrupt. There were such long lines at "Hello Work" (the Japanese unemployment office) and a feeling of panic in the Prefecture in which I lived.
The cultures are different, but emotions are exactly the same for all people. My friends in America on unemployment are frantically looking for jobs after being laid off.
If you think anyone likes being unemployed, then you are a social outcast who knows nothing about basic human emotions!
Here in Canada, my Dad had a triple bypass and a valve replacement a couple of years back. There were some complications due to his health and he had to stay in the cardiac ICU for 4 months. When he got out, they sent nurses and rehab people to his home until he was better. I think the whole thing cost a few hundred dollars in some additional costs for a few mods to the bathroom.
No bill.
This is the only thing that gets me to the voting booth, and the only thing I care about.
It is beyond me why Americans don't demand this. Why would you pay so much in insurance, when you know you will be cancelled or have a 50/50 chance of bankruptcy?
We do pay more in taxes, (I pay an extra $900 per year for healthcare), but I also don't pay any monthly insurance premium for healthcare. So in the end, I probably pay less out than the average American.
Oh, and just so you know, my Dad was in an ultramodern Cardiac Care facility with the latest and greatest stuff. Just because its funded by the govt, doesn't mean it's not high quality.
I spend half of my time in Canada and everyone who can afford it pays for US medical insurance just in case they have something serius...
CAT scan in Japan $190.00
CAT scan in US $8,000.00
Here is the reason why so many people have to declare bankcruptcy:
http://open.salon.com/blog/kanuk/2009/05/15/lets_compare_public_and_private_health_care_costs_eh
Thanks for sharing - good article.
Once again the article does not represent the study:
"They used public bankruptcy court records and survey 1,032 respondents by telephone.
While only 29 percent directly blamed medical bills for their bankruptcy, 62 percent had medical bills that totalled more than 10 percent of family income, said an illness was responsible, had lost income due to illness or some other medical factor."
So the true number is 29% not 60%. to equate illness with medical bills is plain wrong... If the person is sick and can not work, clearly the income will go down. That is true even if that person has the best medical insurance in the world...
29% is high enough number that I do not understand the need of proponents of single payer system to misrepresent facts. All they do is to make their case weaker...
Proud Neocon - the world has left you. You have to come into the real world now.
Just because I am in minority now does not mean I am wrong. The strength of this country is an ability of people to disagree strongly and still co-exist...
Maybe the plan is to beat fire with fire. How many studies and reports "sponsored" by HMOs point fingers at other suspects? They blame malpractice insurance, doctors, employers. Never has there been a coherent logical article explaining what benefit private HMOs bring to the process. Their entire premise is a paper shuffling enterprise set up to deny care and deny payments to providers.
If that is the case - they did a poor job.
The idea of the HMO is the same as single payer insurance - to ration the healthcare to keep cost down. The difference is that people can choose which HMO they want and level of rationing, while in single payer system everyone will be forced into the same mold...
You shouldn't assume that the 29% and the 60% aren't related because they go hand in hand.
If you cant figure that one can cause the other you are slower than you think. Paying a large medical bill monthly may force you to use credit cards for other living expenses. Then when you have paid off your medical bill and something happens like a job loss and your credit debt is too much so you file bankruptcy. Main cause, credit card debt, but that does not explain the entire situation. You're filing to erase credit card debt and any subsequent study/poll into filers will only see that as the reason for the filing, not taking into consideration that a medical issue started the entire process.
You have not read the study or the article. They talked to people rather than rely on filling. Therefore you axample does not work. 29% of people SAID that medical bills were the reason. Instead they have included the cases when the unability to work due to the illness was the main reason. That is an incorrect inclusion...
Tell us what happens when you get a reoccurring illness and the insurance company drops you
People forking over big bucks to big insurance are living in a fool's paradise. It's amazing how fast they hop on the single-payer train when they realize what is not going to be covered. Denying treatment = profit and profit is the point of having a "for profit" insurance business. Let's hope someday soon we live in a country where people don't have to have bake sales to pay for cancer treatments.
So how does this universal health care plan get paid for? I know it's through taxes, but how does the 40% in this country that pay little or no tax get covered?
The point of taxation is to share the burden of items too expensive for people to individually pay for. If a person is so poor they don't pay taxes, they will get our charity. It's the moral and humane thing to do in a civilized society.
So the amounts they are quoting individually are probably not taking that in to consideration. So how does all this save money again? Also, you be seeing people seeing alot of manipultion of incomes to get below the free line. To hedge that the gov't will have to install a graduated step system, which will cost even more. Nobody ever looks at the cause and effect.
Republicans don't understand the words "moral" and "humane"--or "civilized," for that matter.
The same way the Iraq war gets paid for.
Exactly. We could cut our defense spending in half to provide universal healthcare to our people. And we would still be the most militarized country in the world by far.
It would not be through taxation.
It would be through and insurance program. (hopefully)
It is a mistake and a point of propaganda to say it will be taxation.
Is you car insurance taxation? Your house insurance?
It is also a mistake to say it wold be free. It's not.
But will be far cheaper if everyone pays into the insurance pool.
That's the question...How much?
You are wrong. Car and house insurance cost do not depend on the income, but rather on the value of the insured assets and probobility of loss. the proposed system will charge people based on the income level - that is called taxation
Everyone would be covered regardless of tax status, those who do not earn enough to pay tax are those most at need for government supported healthcare.
So all of this will cost will cost how much?
We will take from the rich, and give to everyone else.
And when the rich are gone who will you take it from?
Another misleading story. You notice how the writer, in the beginning states 62% of people who file for Bankruptcy protection have medical debt, but at the end of the article, states that only 29% directly blame medical bills for their Bankruptcy filing, and that little tidbit didn't come til the last paragraph. I'd like to have seen, included in this research, the amount of credit card debt those surveyed, had accumulated, and how many attributed that credit card debt to their filing for Bankruptcy protection.
Good point.
uh... both debts are related. Most people use credit to pay the medical bills and when that is not enough and there are still leftover medical expenses, tied together with job loss, inability to work due to medical condition, etc... then they file. It may look like the credit card bill is the largest amount, but thats only because they used it to survive or pay medical bills. Not really that hard to figure out...
If they need credit cards to survive, they shouldn't have credit cards. People don't get credit cards thinking "I need this to pay medical bills", they abuse them by buying things they don't need, not once thinking how they will pay for them, then if, and when a medical debt occurs they're smothered in credit card debt, maxed out, if you will. Out of control spending runs up credit card debt. You can spin it anyway you want, but I'm not buyin' it, sorry.
You have not read the study or the article. They talked to people rather than rely on filling. Therefore you axample does not work. 29% of people SAID that medical bills were the reason. Instead they have included the cases when the unability to work due to the illness was the main reason. That is an incorrect inclusion...
Only 29% get bankrupt?! While the headline may be misleading, the bankruptcy is a real life horror that these folks are living with - in addition to their medical condition.
Health care is going to be unaffordable for most - could reach that 62% soon. Then will it make sense to consider putting these private HMOs out of business? What service do they provide? They deny care, and the large premiums are used purely to finance their bottom line, to pay their CEOs huge sums to coerce and cajole Congress into not seriously reforming the existing system. They know they have a good scam going.
HMO provide the same service as a single payer system would. They ration the medical care in order to limit cost. The difference is that under HMO system people have and ability to chose the degree of rationing and costs level. Under single payer system that would be decided by Washington for everyone...
The same problems you speak of will not go away by having the Gov run health care, it will be Bureaucracy on Steroids!
Misleading headline, the story is accurate.
Well, credit card debt is another problem and a lot of Americans have huge credit card debt due to stagnant and lowering wages over an extended period of time and they used credit to make ends meet, including medical bills paid for on those credit cards. There was an article somewhere on here that single-payer universal health will also bring pay increases to many. Imagine if you worked for a corporation that no longer had to pay $800 or more a month for each worker for health insurance? I've read many articles where it's cited that any additional taxes a corporation would have to pay pale in comparison to what they are laying out now for health insurance costs.
I'll bet that one of the biggest reasons for stagnant wages and offshoring of jobs is due to health insurance costs for corporations. Small -- think local -- businesses, forget it. They are on the losing end. Most can't afford insurance for their workers period. Imagine the growth of new businesses and their ability to hire good people if they didn't have to worry about competing on benefits? Talk about stimulus!
Biggest reasons for stagnant wages are executive and share holder over-payment both of which have been far from stagnant over the same period.
We've known this for years and for some reason this has never the discussion over the need for a drastic changes to our healthcare system, economic crisis, etc. Yet, we've managed to virtually ignore the study published by the Harvard School of Public Health in 2005. Amazing how little people seem to care about things until its way too late.
Obama does not allow patients to be part of the discussion of reforming the costs and access to healthcare. Obama is a fraud.
And if McSame/Palin had been elected health care reform would be dead and buried.
Not only would health care reform be dead and buried, they would have eliminated employer provided group coverage and forced us all into the private health insurance market.
Somehow I am missing the point. Does this article imply that the middle class must go bankrupt before being eligible for some kind of singe-payer heath care coverage?
"If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until its free!" - PJ O'Rourke
That the best sound bite you got?
I'd say it's a pretty good "sound bite", just about says it all. I'd like to here what you think about it, Joe. You must be a supporter of Government run health care, I'd like to hear your reasons why. I'm not, so come on Joe, change my mind.
Reality's calling. It says this is your last chance to come back to it.
Bill Moyers on Single Payer Health Care:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfIdbKMWBe8
I am on a new main watching online ;)
There are some nasty tro//s over there but some posters are takin' care of business pretty well.
I guess that this bankrupt people already has serious health problems
let alone others who skip even cheap prevention cares or aren't able to afford their medical bills and starve thru illness for years because they lack of coverage
Commenting from Europe is astonishing that such a great country as United States are, can let million of its citizens (even children) without medical cares, and not by chance, but by choice
greed
If a child, in this country, doesn't have health care it's the parents fault.
How is it the parent's fault?
Should the parent buy food, or pay for medical insurance? That's a choice worthy of King Solomon.
You folks from Europe keep talking and educating Americans about universal healthcare coverage in your countries. Give us the pros and the cons, the unvarnished truth.
I'm sick and tired of the trolls blathering on about socialism blah blah blah. Give us the straight scoop. How is it working out in your countries?
troll?
socialism?
how it's working?
easily, you are ill?
you get cured for free
how?
just look at world health organization numbers and you'll see that from hospitals to family doctors they perform better than in the USA, more or less in the whole europe
and this is true for every citizen, from his childhood to is death
what do you think is wrong in this
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First Posted: 06- 4-09 01:36 AM | Updated: 06- 4-09 01:50 AM