NRA, Chicago Prepare To Dig In On Gun Ban Fight

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First Posted: 06- 5-09 06:52 PM   |   Updated: 07- 6-09 05:12 AM

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CHICAGO (AP) -- The National Rifle Association and Chicago long have been the biggest and toughest guys on the block in the fight over handguns.

After the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the District of Columbia's handgun ban last year, communities around the country revoked their handgun bans - but not Chicago. When a federal appellate court this week upheld Chicago's ban, saying Second Amendment protections for gun owners apply only to federal laws, the NRA immediately appealed to the Supreme Court.

"I've always thought that the one that would fight the longest and hardest and the one that would be the candidate for the Supreme Court would be Chicago," said Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist with the National Rifle Association in Illinois.

In 1982, when Chicago enacted its ban, the number of homicides routinely topped 800 every year and the mayor at the time, Jane Byrne, called it a "first step in a nationwide campaign" for stricter gun laws.

When Mayor Richard M. Daley was elected in 1989, he continued to push for tighter gun laws, and has become one of the nation's most vocal gun-control proponents. And under Daley, the city has been willing to spend money to keep its ban in place.

"Chicago's got the deep pockets and think they can squander all kinds of taxpayer money," Vandermyde said.

After the Washington, D.C. ban was struck down last year, Chicago assured neighboring Oak Park - which enacted its own handgun ban in 1985 - that if it kept its ban, officials there could count on Chicago for help.

"All of the issues in the Oak Park complaint are (covered in) the Chicago complaint and Chicago indicated that if we lost and there were attorneys fees on these issues that they would not seek a contribution from the village," said Ray Heise, Oak Park's village attorney who wrote the suburb's ordinance.

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Chicago leaders, including police Superintendent Jody Weis, say the issue is a battle for control of city streets.

They point to the more than 10,000 guns the department takes off the street a year. And they fear that repealing the law might drive up the number of homicides, which police say have been lower over the last five years than at any time since the mid-1960s.

"Anything that can turn that statistic in the wrong direction is something that we would not be in favor of," said Roderick Drew, a spokesman for the department.

Last January, an appeals court panel in New York that included Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor upheld a handgun ban on the grounds that the Second Amendment applied to federal laws. And judges in New York and Chicago said only the Supreme Court could decide whether to extend last year's ruling throughout the country.

Vandermyde said the NRA overcame its biggest hurdle when the Washington, D.C. ban was overturned last year.

"The court has already said this type of ban is unconstitutional," he said, adding that Chicago's ban is "almost the twin brother" of the D.C. ban.

Many of the constitutional protections of the Bill of Rights have been applied to cities and states, and Vandermyde said he's optimistic that the court will do that in this case as well.

But Jennifer Hoyle, spokeswoman for the Chicago law department, said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled clearly in the past that Second Amendment protections do not apply to cities and states.

"The court expressly did not address that," she said. "The reason they ruled on the Washington D.C. ordinance is that Washington D.C. is a federal district," she said.

It's not even certain that the high court will take the NRA v. Chicago case. If it does, Vandermyde said arguments could come as early as fall.

That's fine with gun owners who have for more than two decades bristled at Chicago's law.

"I get it all the time, somebody coming in and they say their neighbor just got robbed and I need to finally step up and buy a firearm," said Mike Diaz, manager of Mike Schrank's Smoke'N Gun in the Chicago suburb of Waukegan. "And I see they are in Chicago and tell them 'you can't have a gun.'"

But even if the NRA prevails, Diaz doesn't think that will end anything.

"Will this be the final nail in the coffin?" he asked. "No, because someone will look at another reason to write another gun law."

-ASSOCIATED PRESS

CHICAGO (AP) -- The National Rifle Association and Chicago long have been the biggest and toughest guys on the block in the fight over handguns. After the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the District ...
CHICAGO (AP) -- The National Rifle Association and Chicago long have been the biggest and toughest guys on the block in the fight over handguns. After the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the District ...
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Richie's hand gun stance is one of the few things he has right, imo. One thing this city does not need are more hand guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 06/07/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Last time I checked, the only civilians with handguns in Chicago are the criminals who are not legally eligible to own guns

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 06/07/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 20 fans permalink

Chicago already has plenty of handguns. They are in the hands of criminals who have not been disarmed by the handgun ban in any way.

What harm could allowing crime victims to defend themselves possibly cause?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 06/21/2009
- noaxe397 I'm a Fan of noaxe397 132 fans permalink

Where in the 2nd amendment does it say there is a right to self defense? It is a short amendment of only about two dozen words. I've read it many times and I do not see the words "self defense" or "self defense in the home" in this amendment. I understand the amendment speaks of bearing arms, defending the nation and forming militias. I got that. No rehash necessary. And I understand one might extrapolate as a matter of common sense, this right from the 2nd amendment the way many interpret a right to privacy from the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 9th amendments even though the words "right to privacy" themselves are no where in the text.

I understand SCOTUS has said there is this right, so please do not waste time posting links to Heller or links to legal interpretations of Heller or links to other founding documents that are not the USConst

I just want to know, simple question, where are these words in 2nd amendment..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 AM on 06/07/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Actually you are looking in the wrong place--self defense would be covered in the 9th amendment (as an unenumerated right)--unless of course you would deny the right of self defense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 06/07/2009
- noaxe397 I'm a Fan of noaxe397 132 fans permalink

So then, under the 9th amendement do I have a right to an abortion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 PM on 06/07/2009
- noaxe397 I'm a Fan of noaxe397 132 fans permalink

Sorry for two consecutive replies. You are the first person of hundreds I've asked to say that the right ot self defense is NOT in the 2nd amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 06/07/2009
- BushBites I'm a Fan of BushBites 33 fans permalink

The National Rifle Association:

Fighting for the Rights of Gang Bangers everywhere to carry Tec 9s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 06/06/2009
- mat3 I'm a Fan of mat3 9 fans permalink

Sorry BushBites, gang bangers will carry what they want, law or no law, NRA or no NRA.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 06/06/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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The NRA:

Fighting to enforce laws such as convicting gang bangers, especially those with criminal records who are caught in possession of firearms.


//signed//
A Cop

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 06/10/2009
- Toonadude I'm a Fan of Toonadude 17 fans permalink

Got to repeat it Odie:
______

Republican Vice-Presidents discharging firearms while intoxicated resulting in personal injury being the exception to the NRA's "strong" position on firearm laws / safety.

Any thinking American knows that if Al Gore did what Cheney did on that quail hunt, the NRA would preach about it non stop to this day and would have called for the resignation of every LEO in the jurisdiction where the investigation, including blood-alcohol levels, should have taken place.
__________

Of additional interest to NRA Kool-Aid drinkers. A rural, Pro-RKBA Democrat won the Virginia Guber. primary election yesterday. Think the NRA will endorse him over the Repub. for the fall election ?? I'm not holding my breath and anticipate the "no endorsement" option that the NRA will take.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 06/10/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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Oh, and BTW, a TEC-9 (all caps, please) is no more dangerous and has no more abilities than any standard semi-auto 9 mm pistol such as made by Beretta, Glock, Walther, Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Taurus, H&K, CZ, EAA, etc. They all fire the same cartridge and therefore all have basically the same power, they all are semi-autos and therefore have the same rate of fire, and they all accept high capacity magazines.

The only difference is the TEC-9 is less reliable, less accurate, weighs more, and has larger outer dimensions making it more bulky to carry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 06/10/2009
- BushBites I'm a Fan of BushBites 33 fans permalink

It was never viewed as a Private Right to own guns until some Wingnut Supreme Court Justices said so.

Once again: Right Wing Judicial Activism run amuck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 06/06/2009
- SiberianRat I'm a Fan of SiberianRat 138 fans permalink
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True!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 06/06/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

you and bites have your history wrong--the RKBA has always been an INDIVIDUAL one

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 06/07/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

There have been about 40 SCOUTS decisions that dealt with the 2nd amendment--38 or 39 of them specified that there was an INDIVIDUAL RKBA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 06/07/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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It has been viewed as an individual right since before the 2nd was penned and by numerous Supreme Courts since then.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 06/10/2009
- BushBites I'm a Fan of BushBites 33 fans permalink

There is no local push to allow Chicagoans to carry guns.

They want to leave the law enforcement up to the cops.

But the NRA wants as many Gang Bangers as possible to have guns, so law abiding citizens are forced to carry weapons.

NRA works for the gun manufacturers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 06/06/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

I can tell you are not familiar with the NRA supported Project Exile--which aggresively goes after people illegally using or possessing guns and putting them in prison. And FWIW--it will still be illegal for gangbangers to have guns (since they are either underage or are drug dealers/felons which makes it illegal for them to own guns)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 06/07/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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Please try some actual FACTS next time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 06/10/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

facts from someone with the screen name Bushbites--not gonna happen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 06/10/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 20 fans permalink

"Chicago leaders, including police Superintendent Jody Weis, say the issue is a battle for control of city streets.

They point to the more than 10,000 guns the department takes off the street a year."

Um....doesn't that prove their handgun ban is useless? If that many guns are still out there over 25 years after the ban was enacted, it can only be interpreted as total failure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 AM on 06/06/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

If Chicago PD is confiscating that many guns--Chicago's gun ban has failed--it is time to restore the 2nd amendment and the right to EFFECTIVE self defense

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 06/06/2009
- BushBites I'm a Fan of BushBites 33 fans permalink

And you'd rather let the Gang Bangers keep their guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 06/06/2009

Um... didn't they say that murder rates in Chicago were lower than anytime since the 60s? In the 60s, like when everyone could carry guns? So... where is the proof that more guns - better self defense? and no, not anecdotal "this guy in Texas saved his whole block with a .45 and 3 bullets" proof. I mean real give guns to ordinary folks and crime goes down data, if it actually exists.

Oh, and "robbers are ignoring gun laws so we should eliminate gun laws" logic is weak sauce. Robbers also ignore property laws. Should we get rid of those too, so we can steal cars from guys we think are bad to teach them a lesson? Even Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson supported gun restrictions in towns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 06/08/2009
- HisXLNC I'm a Fan of HisXLNC 7 fans permalink

Maybe Chicago should leave the guns on the streets and start getting their 100,000 gang members off the street.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 06/07/2009
- MarieB I'm a Fan of MarieB 2 fans permalink

The Second Amendment is out dated and abused. It was written at a time when a militia was needed and every man had to own a gun to be prepared against the enemy. Today we have law enforcement and the armed forces for protection and it's totally unnecessary to own a hand gun, especially an AK47 assult weapon. The US is #4 in the world for murder by firearms.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 06/05/2009

Here's a little first hand experince from the south side of Chicago, where I live.
An officer responding to a car break-in in the parking lot next to the Lane Bryant murder scene was within 200 yards when the killings took place. A lone gunman grabbed the unarmed women one-by-one as they arrived at the store, and tied them up. Rhoda McFarland was shot in the front of the head when she dialed 911. Sarah Szafranski, Carrie Hudek Chiuso, Jennifer Bishop and Connie Woolfolk were shot at close range in the back of their heads moments later. Illinois citizens are told to call police when becoming victims of crime. Police mere yards away, and 911 on the phone could not and cannot protect unarmed citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 06/05/2009

Given the facts in the case, if the women had been armed, I do not think you can provide any evidence that the end result would have been the gunman dead or wounded and all or some of the women alive. I live in the Chicago area and followed the incident as it was convered in the paper.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 06/06/2009
- HisXLNC I'm a Fan of HisXLNC 7 fans permalink

What will you do if you ever have to protect yourself from the law enforcement and armed forces?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 06/05/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

If you choose to be a victim by not protecting your life, that is your choice--but it is not within your power or rights to deny the right of self defense to another

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 06/05/2009

There are more efficient ways of decreasing violent crimes than by targeting the constitutional right to bear arms. Firearms, as an enabler for violent crime, treads a very thin line of jurisprudence. The only place this case is going is federal v municipal law and as such will end with a whimper, not a bang (no pun intended).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 AM on 06/06/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Guns are also very good at stopping crime

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 06/07/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 20 fans permalink

Clearly you need to learn the facts. The police have no legal duty to protect you, and the AK47, like all rifles, is used in a tiny percentage of crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 AM on 06/06/2009
- BushBites I'm a Fan of BushBites 33 fans permalink

AK47 is not written in the Constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 06/06/2009

What an interesting concept: our US constitution, specifically the Bill Of Rights, only applies to Federal Laws. In other words, there is no equal protection under state and local law. With that kind of logic there are undoubtedly jurisdictions in this country, which will revert to slavery.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 PM on 06/05/2009

But the second amendment is different than many of the others. I suggest you re-read the Amendments to the constitution. Facts beat willy-nilly reasoning all the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 06/08/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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"But the second amendment is different than many of the others."

Oh this should be funny!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 06/10/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Per Heller--the 2nd amendment protects an INDIVIDUAL RKBA--nuff said, you lose

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 06/10/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 73 fans permalink
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"What an interesting concept: our US constitution, specifically the Bill Of Rights, only applies to Federal Laws. "

So it was held for decades until the passage of the 14th Amendment. In fact, a US Supreme Court ruling in Barron vs Baltimore stated exactly that and was one of the major reasons for the 14th Amendment to extend the BoR's restrictions on the federal government down to the state and local levels.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 06/10/2009
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