Foreign Policy:
The Washington Times's Eli Lake reports that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will say in his speech this weekend that he is prepared to accept Palestinian statehood under the following conditions:
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imagine what would have happened if Britain gave America these conditions when america wanted independence? i can hear the minute men turn in their graves
Some conditions I think would be accepted. Such as not making treaties with enemies (early US anyway try consistently to steer a neutral course between European powers for quite a while). I'm not sure what would be equivalent of heavy weapons at that time. It all depends on when and which conditions, the events evolved quite rapidly, and demands had been changing.
Unfortunately, Britain did much worse, as you well know - it just refused to give up absolutely anything. First of all its inflexibility forced the colonies to seek independence. Then Britain inability to part on some reasonable conditions caused the war.
When Netanyahu speaks today, remember the full history of the conflict in Palestine.
Do not let him frame the debate.
David Ben Gurion, "revered as Father of the Nation (israel)", made these statements decades ago. Each pm since then has acted in a manner consistent with this plan. Netanyahu, the present pm, is close to realizing this dream of "ersatz israel". He will not turn back. He cannot turn back. What you will hear will be the same promises as before or new promises that the hard-line israeli's have no intention of keeping.
Obama (and we) must not falter in our opposition to the plan summarized by David Ben Gurion in the quotes below. Write Obama, your senators and representative. Obama will need to hear your voiced support in the next few months. He cannot do it alone. Your senators and representative need to hear your voiced opposition to the status quo in this "special relationship".
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” David Ben Gurion
“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.” David Ben Gurion
David Ben Gurion Polish born Israeli Statesman and Prime Minister (1948-53, 1955-63). Chief architect of the state of Israel and revered as Father of the Nation, 1886-1973
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html
Very good information about how we got here and where "here" really is.
In fact, here's a nice little drinking game you can play. Every time the Prime Minister uses one of these ploys, take a drink.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/how-israels-propaganda-ma_b_156767.html
Here is a drinking game for recovering alcoholics. Take a drink each time arle posts something interesting, factual, or honest. It is a sure way to stay sober.
Yes. And, the overwhelming majority of the American population should NOT be funding this. And, the NYC-imploding media has conducted a campaign of PROPAGANDA, funded by very expensive NYC-PR agencies YOU pay for, for a generation to misinform/disinform the American population - fused with AIPAC's undue influence on American politicians to do the bidding of dual citizens instead of what is in the best interests of the American people/taxpayers.
Bad things happen to good people. OK. We don't have to continue this SETUP - hijacking our foreign policy and making NYC/DC targets - which our Government KNOWS is the case. That SMIRK you see on the PM's face - is YOU have been taken for a ride, and there is no empathy for our current economic predicament, nor gratitude for what we have done. NOTHING. The Foreign Minister the KKK wouldn't invite to a party. Amazing...that the NYC media and so-called journalists have not connected the dots for the American people to get a clear view of who the Israelis are - today.
WHAT do the majority of Americans GET for this setup - you might ask? NOTHING. Not even respect of our President - or appreciation. Further, the new leadership is far right-winged - which American votes rejected during the last Election cycle. We have moved forward to OUR future.
Let Israel stew with right-winged zeolots, worldwide - and form strategic alliances where likeminded Nations like Russia et al can also FUND THEM.
I find it amusing that Israelis are now threatening to turn to Russia instead of the US. Perhaps second only to Germany in having a history of genocide against Jews, and Russia isn't exactly happy with Israel considering they armed Georgia and helped them prepare for their attack on South Ossetia. China /maybe/, especially since Israel is perfectly happy with proliferating the secrets they were given (and in some cases, stole) from our military.
Ben Gurion's "vision" has been, and remains Israeli policy since 1948, paid for with US $$$ and Arab/Palestinian lives.
I would much have preferred Menachem Begin to have been the father of the modern State of Israel, but the strong armed socialists got a lock on it early on.
That link is awesome. Thanks.
Here's what passes for JOURNALISM in NYC-American media - in our Democracy. When ANY media outlet can and does circulate inflammatory punditry in print and via our airwaves - about OUR PRESIDENT, inciting white supremecists and other fellow travelers nationwide and globally -- but refuses to post the Blumenthal video of last week - openly, for ALL Americans to see the dark underbelly of the REAL ISRAEL, reflecting at the helm of its Government.
Consequently, I am posting a coherent critique of a confluence of events - and how I, as an unconflicted American citizen, view American engagement past/present/future - FINANCIALLY, during a crisis when my fellow Americans are suffering (and not a peep of concern from our "special friends" beyond their usual navel gazing) - and, when Israelis openly call our President racial epithets that the American media is hiding. If we PAY Israeli bills, we should KNOW what is going on.
This is NOT Journalism and we will NOT pay for it. So, go down the tubes, American "news" media.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1091707.html
Lieberman Only Understands the Language of CONFLICT
You mean Lieberman is not going to appease and bend to Islamofascist demands. God willing, he won't. Israel gave up MORE than enough already by any stretch of the imagination. Gave up the Sinai. Gave up Gaza. Pulled out of most of the West Bank. And so forth. And for what? More rockets? More terrorist attacks? More US pressure? I think it's time for Israel to go the other way new friends if the old ones are tired and want to buckle under at Israel's expense. No way.
Your opinions are in the minority.
Youre a dinosaur. A right-wing dusty relic. An obstacle to peace.
Lieberman is not going to give in to the demands that Israel must commit suicide too accommodate Arab demands. And hopefully Lieberman will steer Israel towards a more balanced Israeli foreign policy closer to Russia, China and India as the US moves closer to the Muslim countries.
Now - THIS is the REAL ISRAEL, along with those in the (embargoed, but linked below) Blumenthal videos last week!
America - THIS is what you have been funding w/your hard-earned TAX DOLLARS FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS! This is what your media/Constitutionally-protected journalism should be covering - not HIDING from you.
...by "closer" I hope you mean Israel will suck annual BILLIONS OUT OF RUSSIA, CHINA and INDIA!
Hope they are ready - to be USED big time - to end up exactly as we have in America 40 years hence.
Arrogant, hubristic, selfish USERS.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/06/avigdor-lieberman-hard-ma_n_164585.html
Lieberman, the "Dick Cheney and David Duke" of Israel
White supremecists of the world - unite!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?ref=opinion
June 14, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
The Obama Haters’ Silent Enablers
By FRANK RICH
WHEN a Fox News anchor, reacting to his own network’s surging e-mail traffic, warns urgently on-camera of a rise in hate-filled, “amped up” Americans who are “taking the extra step and getting the gun out,” maybe we should listen. He has better sources in that underground than most.
As you know, white supremacists hate Jews, Native Americans, Catholics and especially Blacks and Hispanics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/weekinreview/14levy.html?_r=1&hp
Just think how many billions the American taxpayer could have saved if we let RUSSIA "help" Israel - including during the end of the Cold War! Just think! Well, Russia - hope you can AFFORD your new friend - the State of Israel! Now the white supremecists of the world can bond. How nice. America - move on and AWAY from this!
June 14, 2009
Mideast in Flux
Israel"s Foreign Minister Cozies Up to Moscow
By CLIFFORD J. LEVY
MOSCOW " "Would you mind speaking without an interpreter?" Vladimir V. Putin asked, and his visitor, Avigdor Lieberman, Israel"s new foreign minister, responded that he could not imagine doing business any other way. The two then chatted in Russian, as if their meeting this month were a homecoming for a local boy who made good.
In some sense, it was. Mr. Lieberman is an immigrant from the former Soviet Union, and the notably warm reception that he received in Russia could be a sign of things ahead. His hard-line positions have disquieted the Obama administration, but in Moscow, there was no such squeamishness.
Well, it was Stalin that saved Israel in 1948, by letting Czechoslovakia sell arms to the Jews while the US, though it was first to recognize Israel, put an arms embargo on it making it illegal to smuggle arms to Israel. Of course, Stalin's motive was to have a Jewish communist state in the ME, and maybe even a Soviet naval base in Haifa. But when Israel won but did not go communist, and turned towards the West, Stalin became angry and was even plotting to carry out another holocaust inside Russia, and then Russia began to sell huge amounts of arms to Egypt and other Arab countries.
But yes, Israel has options besides America. It is India's largest arms supplier, and China loves Israeli technology, and after the Georgian war, where Russia lost some tanks thanks to Israeli equipment provided to Georgia, they have now ordered some $55 million dollars of UAVs from Israel. Russia has some problems with some of its Muslim population, and also has no real desire to see Iran have the bomb. I sells oil in competition with the Muslim countries. The US sells the Arab countries some $5 billion dollars worth of arms annually, so it's not as if the US supports soley Israel in the conflict.
disgusting, what a disgrace...these americans who were calling names to Obama should be deported the day they land here...
this would have been front page news with screaming headlines on Fox news, WSJ and NyPost Max would have taken the same footage in I.ran...
thanks Max, you rock!!!
Time to get REAL and outside of the NYC-imploding media-PR-embargoed-journalism bubble that caters to Israeli PR...the flipside and complement to what AIPAC is to DC-influence peddling to American politicians.
Americans - we have a REAL PROBLEM - and we can solve it by refusing to pay for values we don't share. The new white supremecist Israeli Foreign Minister and his friend, the PM - were ELECTED by Israelis, while the US and the world want CHANGE. What you see on the tapes is reflected in the very recently elected Government. Don't let American media fool you - any longer - fellow Americans. The toxic, arrogant, hubristic and totally ungrateful attitude is REAL. Too bad Israelis just don't stand up and tell itlike it is - rather than spend YOUR tax dollars peddling PR and lobbying influence. THIS is what we are REALLY deaing with. So be it. And - thuggery, snarky comments from bullies don't work on the overwhelming majority of Americans who don't have dual citizenships, foreign (tax free) bank accounts - and MAJOR CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS or values that elevate white supremecists to the higher echelons of our Government. Why should we continue to pay for this? Why does the NYC media try to keep Americans from KNOWING this?
Let RUSSIA pay the bills now. Then, buy popcorn. WE won't be there to fix things down the road. Mr. Lieberman should have stayed there. Had hardworking Americans not had to spend trillions fighting the Cold War - he
Mr. Lieberman should have stayed in RUSSIA...and, had hardworking Americans not spent TRILLIONS on the Cold War...he would have! So be it. Send next year's multi-billion dollar bill -- from the State of Israel -- and requests for UN and any other "support" they like to pretend doesn't exist, TO MOTHER RUSSIA!
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/06/alison_benedikt.php
On the Drunk Anti-Obama Jews Video
By Allison Benedikt in Featured, Politics, ReligionWednesday, Jun. 10 2009 @ 3:38PM
Thanks for the link
No problem. American NYC-imploding media (which the American people wisely are no longer BUYING - because we can get PR, infotainment and SPIN gratis on the web) doesn't WANT you to know this. Or, they spin this is an abberation - making excuses that would never be accepted if Europeans were spewing this in the streets to video cameras - about Isrealis. There's ALWAYS an excuse or justification for ANY conduct done by Israelis. They are SPECIAL. Got it! This is not an abberation. All Americans need do is connect the dots from this video directly to the leadership just elected to head the Government -- by the Israel people! Time for the American people to take our checkbook out of the Middle East.
Let RUSSIA bond with Lieberman -- and have an Olympics of white supremecy...and Americans should look to OUR future. It is an insult to ask the overwhelming majority of the population of the most ethnically diverse Nation on Earth - to PAY for this. WHY should we?
This particular blog has proven the value of HuffPo. The postings by Renatam are evidence of why there is a need for Israel. Writers like this person and other of his ideology are proof Israel is in a dangerous position and without Israel Jews around the world are in harm's way. What HuffPo has done is to allow another person who would be comfortable making the selections to reveal his/her bias and hatred.
A reasoned and reasonable discussion can take place among folks who are far apart on a question of fact and ideologies. I find that HuffPo offers a place at the discussion for all sorts of good folks who haven't come to see the light of the correctness of my thinking. And that is one of the things that make me glad HuffPo is available.
Israelis don't need another EXCUSE or JUSTIFICATION for their actions/choices/decisions - and should cease USiNG others. Make your OWN choices and defend/live and most importantly PAY for them - ALONE - like a sovereign State should.
End of story.
Just do your thing...bond with white supremecists...elect white supremecists...but don't ask hardworking, pressed American taxpayers - who have done more than OUR share - to PAY for values and this toxic stew, any longer.
Stop USING everyone, BLAMING everyone...for your OWN ACTIONS, CHOICES, etc. -- and go your OWN way...on your OWN dime. And, American taxpayers, cutting the cord will be toxic because this ingrate and selfish Nation has no respect or appreciation for what you have already done the entire lives of the boomers...and counting. NONE. All you will get from Israelis is their way or the highway, ultimatums, CONFLICT...and, DENIAL you have done anything. The default will be what you read in the first sentence of the post I am responding to - the VICTIM narrative - which has nothing to do with the majority of Americans in a culturally and ethnically diverse Nation - refusing to carry Israel financially and militarily across the entire 21st Century - on THEIR TERMS. Totally immature and irrational response for a sovereign (dependent) Nation. Don't expect more from their commoditizing/profiteering/amoral white supremecist leadership. So be it.
Is Avigdor Lieberman Mad?
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=1073
Another of you rants that is completely off topic and as usual offers nothing of substance.
You repeat the same thing in your postings, never seeming to reply to any specific posting.
Blah blah blah, everyone's an anti-Semite and that's why the Palestinians need to be driven into the sea to make way for Zionists. Look, we already /know/ what you're about, Bubba.
You have no idea at all concerning what I am about.
I would really like Netanyahu to publicly come out and say to the US, "Thank you but we don't need your aid anymore" and recommend that the US also cut off aid to Egypt, the Palestinians, and to end arms sales to both sides, including the Egyptians, Saudis, Jordanians and UAE. In other words, a total aid and arms embargo on ALL sides of the conflict. I would love to see the reaction to such a statement, and who gets hurt more, Israel or the US arms manufacturers who sell 3 times as much arms to the Arabs than Israel gets. I know that domestic Israeli arms manufacturers would be overjoyed. The US arms contractors have been raiding Israel companies for engineers to bring to California for decades. I worked in Israel R&D for a period of time, so I know whereof I speak. US aid to Israel is the reason for corruption in Israel. Israel was a fairly decent honest country when I was first there in 1970 and US aid had not reached such huge levels. US aid has corrupted Israeli politicians, and made Israel contractors rich. It has done little for the average man. If the aid is cut off to all sides fairly, it will go down just fine.
Why wait for Israel to turn our annual handouts - when we can cut it off. And, America did fine w/out Israeli's doing us the favor of acception annual billions since the boomers were in sleepaway camp. Just think what we could have done with that kind of money for our own neglected infrastracture, schools and healthcare? As for engineers, I believe China and India are pumping them out by the hour. As for ingenuity and hard work - Americans have a 200 year history that speaks for itself. Thank you.
Only advocates for Israel would call this setup a favor to the American people. We agree on one point, END IT NOW.
Then Israel can go about its business and America can go about hers - w/out Israeli influence - which is strange IF they don't need our largesse.
Major US aid to Israel really began after the 1967 war. Between 1948 and 1968, the US had an arms embargo on both Israel and the Arab states. The Arabs got most of their arms from the USSR and Britain. Israel got mostly from France and Britain, some vintage WWII US leftovers. But after Israel kicked Soviet-backed Arab butt in 1967, even shooting down Russian piloted planes, the US saw an opportunity to get ISrael as an ally against Soviet penetration in the ME, while it was bogged down in Vietnam. The Israelis turned over a lot Soviet captured equipment to the CIA as well, and then the relationship began to build from there.In the 1970s, the US began to pressure Israel to give up the Sinai to Egypt, and finally the US promised Israel aid in exchange for its relinquishing the oil fields and territory of Sinai. But for some strange reason, the US also gave Egypt almost as much aid since then, even though it was Egypt that got its Sinai returned - for the third time since 1949!
Anyhow, if the US cuts off aid and arms sales TO ALL SIDES OF THE CONFLICT, Israel will do just fine I'm sure,. Actually it'll do better because it won't have the US on its back constantly.
Gee, I wonder why with all those engineers in India, China and Russia, that in the last month alone Israel delivered a $1 billion Phalcon AWACs system to India, and got an order for its UAVs from Russia, and China wants more Israeli equipment but the US nixes thse sales, even though congressional investigations have found negligible amounts of US technology involved. As if Israel doesn't develop its own technologies :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14ehrenreich.html
Here's what AMERICANS need to be focused on - and ONLY this. Period.Op-Ed Contributor
Too Poor to Make the News
By BARBARA EHRENREICH
Published: June 13, 2009
A "two state solution" is a fallacy. A "two state solution" for us is a half state solution for both identities and an eternal two state conflict.. Israel will never settle for that as an end goal. To achieve peace, we better start discarding fallacies.
With that said, a one state binational state looks very good to me. Both peoples can share the land and share the government.
Federation with two states? I think it will almost immediately will split, the two states will immediately apply for divorce.
consolidating the occupation is not a two state solution but a two state conflict.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...and before anyone posts it...I will address the CHARGE of anti-Semitism - because the majority of Americans don't want to PAY AND PAY AND PAY AND PAY for another Nation's quality of life to be superior to our own.
Bogus!
This "setup" must end...and you can call it what you will. More lies from the likes of a people who would make Bibi and his RACIST fellow travelers, their LEADERSHIP. Speaks for it/themselves in spades.
Your postings are wrong and wrong-minded. The standard of living in Israel is not better than in the US, that is a misstatement of fact.
YOu continue to write postings that exaggerate the amount of US aid sent to Israel each year. Compared to other nations the aid sent to Israel is only a little more than the amount sent to Egypt each year. If your concern is the effect on the individual tax payers your concern should be about tax cheats in the US. Aid to Israel is about $2.4 billion each year. Tax cheats will cost the US government over $40 billion this year. Tax money lost to US corporations moving the headquarters exceeds $20 billion each year. The point is your constant stream of complaints about aid to Israel is a sham, the amopunt Israel gets, much of it in loans, is insignificant to the US economy.
I'd never charge you with anti-Semitism, just an inability to be honest.
Israel receives over 3 billion dollars in US government aid, plus many more billions in private donations which are tax deductable. They leave the US economy.
Egypt receives less than 2 billion dollars in US aid.
Israel has 7 million people
Egypt has 80 million.
You can work out the discrepancy for yourself.
Excuse me. If there are American tax cheats, THAT is our busines. To put my concerns about the largesse we provide to the failed welfare state of Israel w/in the same CONTEXT as American concerns -- is exactly what is DEAD WRONG.
We mind our own business...and the Israelis should stay out of it. And, the only concern I have as it pertains to this failed welfare dependent state - is our tax dollars propping it up, while we have neglected our own problems for a generation.
Israelis should mind their own business and stay out of OURS...and leave our tax cheats and President alone.
Ridiculous fusion - and un-Constitutional to my mind.
You neglected to mention those high profile “gonif” behind the Wall Street WMDs and the $$55trillion CDSs. What does Hank Greenberg, Sandy Weill, Richard Fuld, Alan Greenspan, Bob Rubin, Ben Bernanke have in common?
Sure, the US should cut off aid to Israel, EGypt, the Palestinians, as well as arms sales to all sides, including the Egyptians, the Saudis, the UAE and Jordan, and Israel will do just fine. It'll be little bit tougher, as well as loss of more jobs at Boeing and General Dynamics, but Israel will manage. After all, the US did maintain an arms embargo in both sides until 1968, and yet Israel won its wars. If it will untie Israel's hands and get America out of Israel's face concerning the captured territories, it will be a worthwhile sacrifice for Israel to make.
Israel won its wars ...and there will ALWAYS be Israeli wars. Americans will be happy to "get out of Israel's face..." when Israel gets out of the purses of the American taxpayers.
As for "sacrifice" - it is the American taxpayers who have been SACRIFICING since boomers were in day camp. As usual, propagandists and the delusional, equate NOT heisting the American taxpayers after 40 years...SACRIFICE.
Your thinking is interesting...re how American business and jobs will suffer IF we don't fund Israel to the tune of BILLIONS on an annual basis. Methinks the American people - who created this thing we are typing on today, called the internet - will find something else to do w/out the "support" of Israel's constant neverending wars - to do their intransigency, arrogance and hubris. The American people build the most powerful Nation on Earth in 200 years - without the "support" of Israel...or, many of the Jewish people, who arrived for the most part via Ellis Island. Some of our ancestors have INVESTED more and they didn't do it for the State of Israel - but for the United States of America.
Thank you.
Ridiculous - and WHY this setup needs to stop immediately.
You got your information wrong. Saudi Arabia does not get no aids nor does the UAE. On the Contrary those Mo Fo invest more money here than the Chinese.
Here's another question. At WHAT POINT does a Nation have to take an introspective look at HOW/WHY the six billion inhabitants of other Nations view it - and/or course correct?
WHY is the State of Israel singularly not bound by the criteria of all other Nations - and international laws?
At WHAT POINT does the State of Israel have to take responsibility for its own situation, respect what the entire world is saying - including the majority of Americans whose voices don't make it by the NYC-media/Wall Street cartel(s) - are saying, whether or not they agree with it - and MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT???
American taxpayers - this always has been an unrealistic situation. It's call Shangri-La. No Nation can operate like this - and Israel has ONLY been able to do so because YOU PAY FOR IT.
At this juncture the discussion should not be about Israel's Soverignity - but OURS. We have the right to do what we will with our taxes - and the obligation to our own children to protect, honor and defend - them.
Israel has elected leaders who have pitted their interests against ours. So be it. The people of Israel chose leadership to throw down the gauntlet, arrogantly/stupidly.
Choose OUR INTERESTS, fellow Americans. Choose OURS! Think of how peaceful and quiet the world will be when Israel doesn't have our largesse to bully the entire world? It's up to YOU -- not Bibi! He's just too stupid and arrogant - and his fellow
Congress controls the money. A majority of them have to vote on stopping the aid. Israel hasn't hit that critical mass with the public yet. Most Americans don't even know what the capital in the state next to them is. Israel has to keep on its path against America. If they just criticise Obama, that will just make 30% of our right wing goofballs happy.
I believe the American people are waking up to the setup, as our homes, retirement and children's futures VANISH into thin air (where did the money go?). We are having to fight for benefits we pay for in other Nations - and clarity is on the rise. The President's Campaign was paid for - by Americans - not AIPAC.
The arrogance and hubris of the PM of Israel - and the folks in the Blumenthal video (link below) - and overt CONTEMPT for everything we are and stand for as Americans - is making things even clearer.
Nothing like clarity, which NYC-media - fused w/Wall Street and corporate interests - prevented for a generation.
The Internet gave us President Obama - and it is now eroding and upending the PR-press. It is the State of Israel who now needs a little clarity - which I have no doubt President Obama will give them very shortly.
Then, if they want to self-destruct, they can do it ALONE and w/out our tax dollars, which can/shuld be put to better use.
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First Posted: 06-12-09 06:41 PM | Updated: 06-13-09 02:27 AM