Perito Moreno: The Glacier That's Still Growing

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — Argentina's Perito Moreno glacier is one of only a few ice fields worldwide that have withstood rising global temperatures.

Nourished by Andean snowmelt, the glacier constantly grows even as it spawns icebergs the size of apartment buildings into a frigid lake, maintaining a nearly perfect equilibrium since measurements began more than a century ago.

"We're not sure why this happens," said Andres Rivera, a glacialist with the Center for Scientific Studies in Valdivia, Chile. "But not all glaciers respond equally to climate change."

Viewed at a safe distance on cruise boats or the wooden observation deck just beyond the glacier's leading edge, Perito Moreno's jagged surface radiates a brilliant white in the strong Patagonian sun. Submerged sections glow deep blue.

And when the wind blows in a cloud cover, the 3-mile-wide (5 kilometer) glacier seems to glow from within as the surrounding mountains and water turn a meditative gray.

Every few years, Perito Moreno expands enough to touch a point of land across Lake Argentina, cutting the nation's largest freshwater lake in half and forming an ice dam as it presses against the shore.

The water on one side of the dam surges against the glacier, up to 200 feet (60 meters) above lake level, until it breaks the ice wall with a thunderous crash, drowning the applause of hundreds of tourists.

"It's like a massive building falling all of the sudden," said park ranger Javier D'Angelo, who experienced the rupture in 2008 and 1998.

The rupture is a reminder that while Perito Moreno appears to be a vast, 19-mile-long (30 kilometer) frozen river, it's a dynamic icescape that moves and cracks unexpectedly.

"The glacier has a lot of life," said Luli Gavina, who leads mini-treks across the glacier's snow fields.

Comments

[kosmik]

We are a very arrogant race of beings if we think we are solely responsible for the warming of the planet. The planet cycles through warm and cold periods. The suns solar activity also affects climate on earth. It could be mother natures way of getting rid of a species that is no longer in harmony with the planet.

[SteveMI]

I think you're right that there is a certain 'intuition' people feel aboult AGW which is large driver.

Just as the when the Catholic Church, and the world in general believed the Sun orbited the earth-
it wasn't really stupid, just that while the science was still foggy , it seemed obvious. Galileo's assertion that the Earth orbited the sun was counter-intuitive

And today, for the ideology that believes in AGW regardless of scientific understanding, the idea that SUVs and rich western nations, and consumerism etc damages the planet seems intuitive, it fits perfectly with their sense of guilt or self deprication or superioirity or whatever it may be?

[Panglos]

Isn't the real question obvious:

How fast would this glacier be growing in the absence of global warming?

[BillonMaui]

Something smells here. A couple years ago I visited the Perito Moreno glacier. The evidence of progressive retreat was obvious. Hundreds of yards of land formerly under the ice lay uncovered. Our guides said the process had clearly accelerated over the past few years. There was no indication, neither from the condition of the ice nor the guides, that an advance had occurred within recent history. It had only retreated.

[SteveMI]

This is very silly

Ask any real scientist, they won't bite, GLACIERS HAVE BEEN MELTING SINCE THE LAST GLACIAL MAXIMUM aound 18,000 years ago, and that is good, we want to see that continue or it means this brief warm interglacial period may be coming to an end. If that happens we wont be worrying about buying organic cat food or any fashionable cause- we'll all be too busy freezing/starving to death!

Interestingly, this interglacial period is cooler than usual- normally the ice caps and frozen waste/tundra that covers so much of the land surface of the Northern Hemisphere would be lush and thriving with life by now, hopefully we may see that before the next glacial period..

One thing is for sure, when the next 'ice age' comes, you can bet people will try to blame it on someone else - someone preferably with deep pockets!

[Iccarus]

I'm sure there will be people who try to use this as a tool to deny globle warming, but I didn't see that in the article at all. It's important to understand that globle warming doesn't mean we'll have uniform higher tempetures everywhere. Globle warming is causing climate change. I know though, people say dumb things like "this is the coolest june I can remember, You still believe that globle warming stuff?"

[SteveMI]

Right- believers are vey scientific about this, always quick to remind us that an anecdotal heat wave isn't evidence of global warming.:)

The southern hemisphere's cooling is hardly anecdotal though- the cooling temps and steadily growing sea ice around Antarctica are well documented, just not of much interest to certain ideologies.

But it does match the pattern of previous natural climate changes- it's actually in part a transfer of heat from one hemisphere to another- this in turn has a very strong correlation with the Milankovic cycles which vary the amount of solar energy at particular latitudes by up to 25%- but this is getting a bit scientific for someone who spells global 'globle' - I think if you are experiencing 'globle' warming you should see a doctor with that!

[Billy Hell]

Yay for the deniers of climate change huh? So there's one example from thousands of glaciers that are not or have not melted and that's empirical scientific evidence to trash climate change? The unique situation and circumstances leading to this particular glacier not melting can simply be ignored?

[mioffe]

Dear Billy Hell, my questions for you "what are you think about GHG, water vapor as one of GHG, water DROPLETS, clouds, water, ice, winds, reflection, role of Amazon rainforests?"
They are very important to understand if you are deniers, believers, or person who are trying to understand reality?

[realpolitic]

Yes, the deniers use any cherrypicked information to deny reality about climate change. Not long ago there was an article that said 200 glaciers on the Himalayans mountain were getting bigger. The deniers said "Look, Himalayan glaciers are getting bigger, therefore there is no climate change." They ignored another article that said 20,000 glaciers in the Himalayans were retreating as a result of climate change. Go figure!! They must think if you deny science long enough you get some prize from the RNC.

[mioffe]

Dear realpolitic:
Al Gore recommends: save energy at home, choose energy efficient lighting, appliances when making new purchases, properly operate and maintain your appliances, heat and cool your house efficiently, insulate your house, conserve hot water, improve the efficiency of your home office, switch to green power’ telecommute from home, reduce air travel, consume less, buy things that last, recycle, don’t waste paper, bag your groceries and other purchases in reusable tote, compost, carry your own refillable bottle for water and other beverages, modify your diet to reduce less meat, buy local, purchase offset to neutralize your remaining emission
Some of his recommendations are good, some are laughable, and some will bring for environment more damage, than good things. All of them not enough to save planet from global warming, if it is his goal.
To evaluate weather disaster we could apply more simple Physics of convection, reflection, winds, ocean streams, water evaporation and condensation and also common sense.
It will help to found solutions equal friendly as for environment as for businesses.

[poneman]

"We're not sure why this happens," said Andres Rivera, a glacialist with the Center for Scientific Studies in Valdivia, Chile
Isn't it funny? All of the "climate change" scientists have no doubt that man-made CO2 is the only explanation for Global Warming as it relates to melting glaciers.
But when the glacier is actually growing . . . WHO KNOWS? WHO CARES? . . . if it interferes with our agenda, then we simply ignore it!

[kate99]

here's the problem with you post out of all the glaciers in the world how many are growing

thats right 1 this one the rest are retreating massively

but dont let the facts get in the way

[Cryostatic]

Conversely, you seem to suggest that we should ignore the fact that this is happening.

Has it occured to you, that if they don't know what's causing this glacier to grow, then they don't really know what's causing others to retreat?

Scientific theories aren't things to be universally accepted, they should be challenged in any instance where the data doesn't match the theory, regardless of the ideologies behind it.

Too much combination of science and politics these days, and too many scientists are willing to trade their credibility to the advancement of some cause.

[SteveMI]

In fact glaciers have been melting globally since the last glacial maximum about 18,000 years ago,
if they ever stop, that is a really bad sign! We don't want to see that

Obviously variations from year to year occur, any glacier can take relatively 'quick' slides for a while then stop until the pressure builds etc, the rate is not perfectly even.

So I doubt this is anything to worry about, but with the cooler winters recently, I think a little growth in sea ice and glaciers is to be expected, although anything we can do to stave of the next glacial period is obviously beneficial to all life on Earth?

[dannau]

I'm an incoming tour operator and travel with passengers three times a year to El Calafate in Argentina, the city in Patagonia where the Perito Moreno is located. Everyone knows here that the Perito Moreno is not growing. The Perito Moreno is one of the very many glaciers in this region that are nourished by the Southern Patagonia Ice Field (Campo de Hielo Sur), the third largest continental glacier in the World (350 x 90kms) with approximately 16.800 km2.
The Perito Moreno lays on a very slick rock floor. The increasing melting of the ice creates a growing layer of water between the ice and the rock, making the glacier slide much quicker, giving the impression of advancing more, when it is actually not (you can see this from the year after year growing rivers that appear from under the ice). The effect, that has not been measured yet, is that the height of the glacier is decreasing faster and faster too. It is enough to check the other glaciers from the same ice field to realize they are all dissapearing: Grey, Upsala, O'nelly, Speggazzoni... etc. so there is no reason whatsoever that the Perito Moreno would be growing.

[realpolitic]

See how mountain glacies are disappearing! Photos taken around 1900 compare them with photos today at this USGS site. (Just click on a glacier to the right. Then go to the bottom of the page and click on the before and after picture. It may take a couple seconds to download.)

http://www.nrmsc.usgs.gov/repeatphoto/thunderbd.htm

[friedfish2718]

The alarmists are so much fun! They are much into CACA theories.

CACA (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration).
Some proper uses of the acronym:
"Some are into antiques. Some are into sports. Albert Gore is into CACA."
"NASA's James Hansen is a CACA expert."
Exchange between 2 climatologists: "How's that CACA study going?"
"Please wait until I get out of the latrine."

The number of growing and/or slowing retreat glaciers are increasing.

[IndependentBadger]

What's so "alarmist" about making sure we aren't totally, irreversibly focked by our own mistakes and greed?

You have to admit, if no money was involved, the rightwing would have no problem cleaning up our life support systems.

Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have referred to our air, water, and food supply as life support systems. Kinda kills the buzz at the Ostrich head/beach party you've apparently invited us to...

[realpolitic]

My friend friedfish is much too hung up on the word CACA,whatever it means. It shows the mentality of those who deny the anthropogenci warming trend. Have fun with your new word, fried!!

[Christopher Petty]

Why can't we look at the positive here? A glacier, no matter how small, is still thriving. And it produces (what sounds like) many breath taking experiences. When I read this I didn't think of global warming or the politics behind it, I thought "I wonder how expensive it is to visit there?" Seriously, I totally want to go to Argentina now...

[mioffe]

Of cource Argentina's Perito Moreno glacier is local phenomenon and have nothing to do with GW.
In many comments here politic play more role than science.
WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IN NATURE? IS IT PROPERTIES OF GHG?
OR IT IS PROPERTIES OF WATER, ICE, WATER DROPLETS AND WATER VAPOR?
OR MAYBE IT IS CHANGE IN REFLECTION OF DIRECT SUN RADIATION AFTER SOOT WILL CAME TO SNOW, OR AFTER TILLING OF LAND FOR FOOD PRODUCTION?
OR MAYBE IT IS CHANGING OF EVAPORATION ON CONTINENTS AREAS BECAUSE OF THE SAME MANKIND ACTIVITIES?
WHAT IS REASON FOR HUGE CONVECTION FORCES?
Why in South Hemisphere, where is more water is cooler, than in North Hemisphere, where are more continents?
Why in every island of Hawaii, or Caribbean Sea, which closer to equator is cooler than in Texas in summer time?

These ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR MANKIND. ANSWERS ON THESE QUESTIONS=TO BE OR NOT TO BE.

FORGET ABOUT POLITIC, ABOUT JUNK SCIENCE. EVERYBODY COULD ANSWER, IF HE (SHE), WILL START TO THINK, NOT REPEAT INFORMATION ABOUT GW. INFORMATION IS NOT KNOWLEDGE. IN THIS CASE INFORMATION IS KNOWLEDGE, WHAT CELEBRITIES THINKING ABOUT GW, OR EVEN MORE WHAT THEIR SPEACHWRITERS THINKING. EVERYBODY WITH 9 GRADE LEVEL EDUCATION HAS ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM! PLEASE THINK WHILE READING ANY OF INFORMATION, BEFORE START TO PROMOTE STUPID IDEAS FROM ONE OR ANOTHER SIDE!

[Beegood]

I wish there was a Flag as unreadable option.

[mioffe]

Dear Beegood: "Come on, you must be joking. I do believe that it cannot hurt you to read an opinion other than your own! You sound very silly."
Of course English is not my native language, but Be good I am writing here to improve it.
What are you doing to improve your understanding of science of GW?

[IndependentBadger]

I think its absurd to make fun of someone's English, when I cannot speak as well in their tongue. Nonetheless, your ideas are still wrong, no matter what symbolic representation is used to express them. Global warming is not junk science, unless you are the kind of person who describes 18,000 of the world's foremost scientific authorities as quacks.

When I look at global warming-deniers, and notice that most of their "scientists" findings are not published in peer-reviewed journals, and make up less than 1% of the world's scientific academy, it is hard for me not to laugh when you call the other 99% "junk scientists".

Makes me wonder what the Vatican called Galileo, five hundred years ago...

[HankDennemann]

Five hundred years ago, the vast majority of scientists believed that phlogisten explained the difference in weight between materials before and after burning them. Peer reviewed, consensus..all that. I detest intellectual design arguments and think it is silly when people try to argue with a straight face that the world is only 6,000 years old, but I have strong reservations about the alleged consensus about global warming and the human role in it. If anybody cares to mark my words, I am betting that in less than 20 years all of these scientists engaging in groupthink will have moved onto some other doomsday prophecy, and everyone will be able to see just how solid this consensus actually was.

[SteveMI]

Very good point- Galileo along with only a couple of other scientists like Copernicus were the only people on the planet that went against the authoriy of the Vatican and their thousands of learned men and the common belief.

They were right simply because they applied scientific principles, not religeous ones like the church, or political ones like the UN or Al Gore

how many of your 18,000 'scientists' do not work for a political instution with a preconceived conclusion like the Vatican had- is there one?

Today we have not just one Galileo, but tens of thousands of independant distinguished honest scientists that have signed their name and staked their reputations on Al Gore 's pop-science being nonsense. A lot more than 18,000 'paranormal Gov't climatologists'!

[mioffe]

Dear IndependentBadger, thank you for understanding my English problems, I am working on them.
When I mention junk science, I mean that both sides made the same accusation against each others.
"Makes me wonder what the Vatican called Galileo, five hundred years ago..."
In Vatican the same as for most people in that time Earth was center of universe.
It is good example that in science one person opinion sometimes more important than mistakes of billion.
Theory of GHG simplify reality in the world.
If South Hemisphere is cooler than North Hemisphere need to be reason for that.
The same why in Caribbean islands, in Hawaii, which closer to equator is cooler than in summer time in Texas?
I invite you to think not like most of scientists, but about influence on climate water vapor, water DROPLETS,water, ice, winds.
Soot, tilling of land and many others human activities changed reflection of direct sun radiation back to space, cloud formation, evaporation, huge convection forces, winds and their directions.
As I mention we have scientists from both side and we need to listen their arguments, not calculate their percentage.

[mamacat]

This is a very small mountain glacier, comparatively speaking, existing in its own microclimate. This mountain glacier is 3 miles wide, a few hundred feet thick, and less than twenty miles long. Meanwhile, the Greenland Ice Cap is two miles thick (thick, not wide) and covers thousands of square miles. It is intellectually very interesting to wonder why a few mountain glaciers in the southern hemisphere would remain the same, or even increase in size, while glaciers and ice caps everywhere else on earth are melting, and the answer to the riddle may even be useful, but this statistical anomaly does not mean that Global Warming is not happening.

The Northern Polar ice sheet, the Greenland Ice Cap, and the Antarctic Ice Cap, according to all scientific studies, are decreasing in size at a rate which indicates other changes will occur which our species will be hard pressed to cope with. It will be much easier to reduce pollution emissions (such as CO2), and to stop the population explosion, than to cope with the results of doing nothing, or not enough.

[elmerfude]

At last some non-fuming intelligent comments.

[fumes]

hey hey hey!

[realpolitic]

Great posts! The few glaciers which are growing usually are doing so by some wind change or some other affect also related to anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions.

[Maxbyte]

Actually, name a glacier in the southern hemisphere that is melting. The Franz Josef glacier in New Zealand is returning at a very fast pace. Some of the hemispheric difference may be that 75%+ of the world's population resides in the Northern Hemisphere, as do the vast majority of anthropogenic possibilities. And if the Sun waits another four years or so to come alive during Sunspot Cycle 24, we may see lots of global climate changes, including increased use of heating sources during longer, colder winters.

[mamacat]

How many of these small mountain glaciers are there in the southern hemisphere? The ones in Africa are almost completely melted, so that leaves a few in the mountains of New Zealand and a few in the Andes mountains of South America. If these were to melt completely, it would affect the local climates, but would do so little on a global scale that it might not even be possible to measure.

The Global Warming discussion must concentrate on what is happening globally. When the atmosphere deteriorates enough, even the microclimates of New Zealand and the Andes will be adversely affected.

[gatogato]

Two of the top of my head. Upsala has receded and lost 4.6 km in 21 years. Viedma has lost 1 km in 13 years. I was there saw the pictures from years back and walked the area. Or maybe those pictures and the land scarring were "faked".

[realpolitic]

Maxbyte, you spoke much too soon!!

"Glaciers around the world are disappearing more quickly than initially thought, and global warming is believed to be the culprit. The deglaciation phenomenon - while most intense in Antarctica - is having a major impact on the mountains of Latin America, warn scientists."

"One can no longer speak of "eternal ice" in reference to mountain glaciers. This is proved by the continual reduction of the glacier-covered areas of the Southern Ice Fields in Chile and Argentina, of the Mexican volcano Popocatépetl, and of the Callejón de Huaylas, known as "the Peruvian Switzerland"."

"Latin America's glaciers are suffering the devastating impacts of global warming and of the meteorological phenomenon of rains and drought known as El Niño and La Niña, and of volcanic eruptions."

"Popocatépetl, "mountain that smokes" in the indigenous Náhuatl language, rises 465 meters above sea level and is located some 60 km north of the capital."

The process of glacier extinction there began to pick up speed in 2000, due to volcanic activity, though climate change and the impacts of human activities have long been affecting the ice fields.


In the past 20 years the ice-covered area of the Peruvian Andes has been reduced 20 percent, says activist Jorge Alvarez, with the non-governmental Board for the Defence of Natural and Cultural Heritage.

""And the process is tending to accelerate," he said in a Tierramérica interview. "


http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=19698

[gatogato]

Another wingnut hit and run. Never sticks around for a real debate.

[Richard2]

This is one of many glaciers around the world that are current growing, although many others are not.