Three Not-So-Optimistic Economists (VIDEO)

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The Huffington Post   |  Ryan McCarthy
First Posted: 06-15-09 01:02 PM   |   Updated: 07-16-09 05:12 AM

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Roubini

By now, you've probably heard of the much-ballyhooed "green shoots" in the economy. On Friday, the Dow actually closed positive for 2009, leading some commentators to begin championing an increasingly optimistic rhetoric. In fact, in a recent survey of 53 economists by the Wall Street Journal, the consensus was that the recession would end in September.

But, among all the talk of increasing optimism in the financial markets, however, there are a few holdouts.

This week, writing in the Financial Times, Wolfgang Münchau : "..at this point, I see the chances as roughly even between a global slump and a return to quasi-stagnation."

He's certainly not alone. Here are three world-beating economists who've recently offered up some strong resistance to the growing cult of optimism:

1. Nouriel Roubini -- We all know by now that the economist they called Dr. Doom isn't one for market cheer leading. But he's been recently striking back against market optimists. Roubini's predicting U.S. GDP growth of just 1 percent in next year, and believes that much of the world economy will remain flat.

"Recovery will be weak, anemic, subpar," he said. Optimists are "getting ahead of the curve" and "advanced economies are going to grow at a very slow rate" after the recession is over, he added.

2. Paul Krugman -- Though the Nobel Laureate Krugman was widely quoted as saying the U.S. recession could subside by September, his predictions weren't entirely rosy.

"I really do see the possibility of a global version of the Japanese 'lost decade' without the prospect of an export-led recovery. This could be unpleasant for a very long time."

Krugman also worried that he wasn't sure what economic forces would lead the U.S. out of a recession, and said that unemployment could stay high, even during a recovery. Earlier in the year, Krugman indicated that a "depressed" U.S. economy could last for five years.

3. Paul Samuelson -- The eminent, Nobel-winning economist recently responded with skepticism to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's statement that the economy could recover by the end of the year. One reason for gloom, Samuelson wrote, is China, whose over-investment in the U.S. economy, which ""means lethal troubles for the future U.S. economy." Samuelson fears that China's increasingly large stake in the U.S. dollar could have some perilous effects. Samuelson writes:

"When a disorderly run against the dollar occurs, I believe a truly global financial panic is to be feared. China, Japan and Korea now hold dollars not because they think dollars will stay safe. Why then? They do this primarily because that is a way that can prolong their export-led growth."

4. Honorable Mention: He isn't an economist, but he makes a great point. In this video, the author of Liar's Poker, Michael Lewis, hands out a dose of reality while speaking with Fareed Zakaria on CNN. His basic argument is that Wall Street made this mess, and is now earning a fortune cleaning it up.

WATCH:



(It should probably be noted that investors certainly weren't optimistic today -- the Dow was down more than 200 points today.)

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By now, you've probably heard of the much-ballyhooed "green shoots" in the economy. On Friday, the Dow actually closed positive for 2009, leading some commentators to begin championing an increasingly...
By now, you've probably heard of the much-ballyhooed "green shoots" in the economy. On Friday, the Dow actually closed positive for 2009, leading some commentators to begin championing an increasingly...
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American Financial institutions .... defunct
American Housing industry ........... defunct
American Auto Industry ................... defunct
American state county & city income defunct
American Manufacturing ............... defunct
Boeing 0 new bookings ................. defunct
American Air Carriers ..........­..........­. defunct
American Retailers Liquidating ... defunct
American commercial Real Estate defunct
American Universities dropping enrollment defunct
American Medical economy fewer insured more people avoiding elective surgery defunct
American Prisons about to be emptied in California ... defunct
American Leisure & Tourism ......defunct

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 06/16/2009
- voidpirate I'm a Fan of voidpirate 2 fans permalink
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How we spend our income is our only weapon. Stop shopping at WalMart and Target and get everything you can LOCALLY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 06/16/2009


Your house is worth $125,000 but you paid $250,000 don"t worry with "Mark-To-Market" Neutered you can say whatever you want to about your home value and no one can refute you!
Now when you go in for a loan, simply declare the house is worth $300,000 and along with your clean "ON-THE-BOOKS Balance Sheet" with no visible other debts means you get money from the FED at 1% interest or maybe less!
Why can"t this world be true for ALL AMERICANS like it is for Wall Street?
We do not own Congress and they DO using ill-gotten FUNDS!
Are the Wall Street Banks really healthy? With "OFF-THE-BOOKS" accounting and "MARK-TO-MARKET" Neutered who knows what the truth is!

good articles for a slow news day: href=".http://www.bit.ly/12NCJR>Econ & Finance Articles Updated Daily

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 06/16/2009


Take back the trillions of $$$ given to the banks, who just sit on it and make it totally ineffective then start government incentive to create realistic industries that give employment and generate real productive income, some of which would hopefully be from exports.

Every other country, especially China and most of Europe have goverment incentives to protect it's industries. No matter what you call it it's a form of protectionism and its inevitable. We should stop being naive and take care of our own house. The only ones who win if we don't are the multinational corporations who don't care where they get their hand out.

good articles for a slow news day: href=".http://www.bit.ly/12NCJR>Econ & Finance Articles Updated Daily

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 06/16/2009
- lisaman I'm a Fan of lisaman 24 fans permalink
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I am no expert but I don't see how the economy can rebound without jobs. Manufacturing jobs. We need to be making products again, we need to sto[p buying products labeled "Made in China".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 06/16/2009
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" Paul Samuelson -- The eminent, Nobel-winning economist recently responded with skepticism to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's statement that the economy could recover by the end of the year. One reason for gloom, Samuelson wrote, is China, whose over-investment in the U.S. economy, which ""means lethal troubles for the future U.S. economy." Samuelson fears that China's increasingly large stake in the U.S. dollar could have some perilous effects. Samuelson writes:

"When a disorderly run against the dollar occurs, I believe a truly global financial panic is to be feared. China, Japan and Korea now hold dollars not because they think dollars will stay safe. Why then? They do this primarily because that is a way that can prolong their export-led growth." "

FINALLY SOMEONE THAT HAS SOME SENSE AND TELLS IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 06/16/2009
- raymurt I'm a Fan of raymurt 4 fans permalink
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Roubini is Dr. Doom?
Look at the man!
He's obviously Doctor Octopus!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 AM on 06/16/2009
- 3dtrix I'm a Fan of 3dtrix 174 fans permalink

The last thing planet earth needs is a re-revved consumer-goods economy - a re-started mega-polluting, resource-depleting globe-warming orgy of non-stop ever-ratcheting materialism. It simply cannot be sustained - and therefore is inescapably doomed to collapse. The present global economic contraction should be seen as a siren of warning that there is great danger ahead - to continue on the present course just might be fatal. The present moment might be our last, best opportunity to reset our aspirations - if we believe that growth is good, perhaps slow growth is more to be desired than rocket-fueled acceleration that strip-mines every resource into extinction. The era of fast-buck capitalism should and MUST come to an end...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 06/16/2009
- SangZe I'm a Fan of SangZe 33 fans permalink

I don't believe it! A rational comment! 3dtrix is right, we need a significant change. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen with a right-wing president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 AM on 06/16/2009
- Saidas I'm a Fan of Saidas 8 fans permalink

Exactly. The entire system is broken and needs not to be repaired but replaced. Most people have no clue as to what is really going on and how would they? Politicians lie or are clueless themselves and the MSM hasn't done it's part since Watergate. The natural tendency is just wanting things to go back the way they were. The change that is necessary isn't going to be quick or painless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 06/16/2009
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Yes!

Let's all go back to living in caves, being one with nature, worshipping Gaea, and crapping outside!

What fun!

Then, if some politician comes along and tries to take 20-40% of my day's hunting/ga­thereriing efforts, I'll just cut a notch in their ear and send them on their way.

I like it...

Go for it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 06/16/2009

For more on the days ahead, see Chris Hedges new post at truthdig.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 06/16/2009
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Wall Street is making a fortune cleaning up the MESS they made!

The EL1TES always win because they own the RIGHTS to RIG the Game!

The 99.8% of us on Main Street are the source of the LITTLE remaining funds they have not yet confiscated!

It will be over when Main Street has NEXT to Nothing! When? Not Long!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 06/15/2009
- plumnelly I'm a Fan of plumnelly 25 fans permalink

Yeah. Pay off everything, buy regionally, maybe grow a garden. Be less dependent on the elites as possible. Consumerism on steriods plays right into the elite's agenda.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 06/16/2009
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This is key.
Save your money. Spend at local, and small institutions (banks, etc...).

Squueeeze these sleeze bags back into normal proportions so they don't have as much hold on government or the economy.

What they don't don't want is Americasn realizing they don't need 90% of the crap they buy. The don't want a 10% savings rate. They don't want savvy, aware consumers.

But that is what they are breeding...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 06/16/2009
- jerrypl I'm a Fan of jerrypl 48 fans permalink
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Mr. Lewis has an insight and offers experience that little in the financial industry can compete with. He was on the inside working in his own firm, making money by shorting these banks, while laughing at them because he knew, long before they did, that they were going down.

Now, he is a observer speaking and writing about the fraud that has and is going on. He is not an economist, nor a government official.

He brought optimism, with between-the-lines caution of the times ahead.

http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 06/15/2009
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 345 fans permalink
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Indeed, his article "The End" at portfolio.com is a seminal piece on this crisis. He explains how and where it began and why it all went wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 06/16/2009
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Lewis is a smart man!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 06/16/2009
- jaem I'm a Fan of jaem permalink

I agree with you absolutely. Very prescient man. He is in fact an economist though. He has a graduate degree in Economics from the London School of Economics and has covered economic issues through his entire career as a journalist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 06/16/2009
- GlenRast I'm a Fan of GlenRast 30 fans permalink
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Since when is the Dow a good indicator of the economy for regular working people? A lot of times a company's stock price goes up when they lay off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 06/15/2009
- dobberdoss I'm a Fan of dobberdoss 24 fans permalink
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Being "debt free" is what real financial wealth is about. Come, be free with me!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 06/15/2009
- getsmart85 I'm a Fan of getsmart85 2 fans permalink

Unfortunately, there are many factors that do not indicate a recovery in the near term. Excessive debt, increased global competition, and lack of industries large enough to propel growth are the three dark horses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 06/15/2009
- lillibelle I'm a Fan of lillibelle 53 fans permalink
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Very well put. As the parent of four teenagers, college costs & post college employment are very worrisome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 06/15/2009

The pursuit of happiness might have to be re-imagined. The corporate version has not served us well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 06/16/2009

The video by Michael Lewis/CNN is very enlightning since he was working on Wall Street and saw what was coming down from that point of view. He also feels another meltdown/crash is entirely possible due to what remains on the banks books. Having worked for a big bank during the housing crisis, I believe that is very accurate. For updated banking information, economist and realtor/investor blogs, this site is invaluable. There are hundreds of links throughout the site and It also gives updated information pertaining to all bank implodes thus far. I'm sure banks are not out of the woods, and probably some of the larger will have bigger problems later down the road. A real estate professional of more than 20 years tells of the foreclosures etc., in California where he is from, by the latest data analysis and charts. His You tube videos done in 2008 have valuable data analysis and timing of the Option Arm loans which have only just started now. Here are the websites.
http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/markmti
http://ml-implode.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 06/15/2009
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