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New York Times:
People on the government's terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report.
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It's outrageous that there is such a thing as a terrorist watch list at all in the U.S.A. If these people are terrorists, then their names should be on arrest warrants, not a watch list. This abomination is nothing more than a secret enemies list and as such it is incompatible with the principle of being innocent until proven guilty.
And now our dear leaders plan to use this secret list of unamerican americans as the mechanism to deny innocent people of their Constitutionally protected rights? I am completely floored that this proposal is enjoying such widespread uncritical support. The ACLU reports that this enemies list currently contains over one million names, and is growing at the rate of 20,000 names per month. I feel like I've entered a weird parallel universe, where the free American republic I was taught about in school has been replaced with an Orwellian nightmare.
Americans better wake up and reclaim their heritage as free people or our nation's future will be very dark indeed.
So let me see, everybody screams when we attack a country based on *suspicion*, but when people are put on this list, or are already on list, based on *suspicion* it's okie doky because they're gun owners.
I had no idea 15th century witch hunt are in vogue. Let get out my dunk tank. They say if you sink, your safe, but if you float, well, your the devil. But I guess in this case, your the NRA.
All I have to say is Thank God for the NRA.
http://c-dawson.blogspot.com/2009/06/have-gun-cant-travel.html
Like I said before, inclusion on the list does not mean a person actually is a terrorist nor does it mean that they have ever committed a crime.
The TSDB, or what is currently called the "terrorist watch list" is actually a compilation of numerous other lists including the so called "no fly" list. Basically the TSDB is the mother of all lists. By law, any agency which has its own terrorist "watch list" is required send that information to the TSC for inclusion in this umbrella list, the TSDB. The criteria for being on those 'feeder' lists varies a great deal and many, many people (possibly even the majority) of the estimated +1 million names in the TSDB should not be in the list at all.
As noted by the GAO and reported by CNN, "The GAO notes that being on a terrorist watch list does not mean that someone is involved in any terrorist activity."
And as the FBI admits, being on the list does not mean the person has ever committed any crime.
The NY Times even states, "A report in May from the Justice Department inspector general found that the list kept by the Federal Bureau of Investigation carried the names of 24,000 people included on the basis of outdated or sometimes irrelevant information. "
Also noted: "Officials were searching for explanations for the increase, which might reflect the overall growth in both the number of people on the watch list". A list which has gone from under 1000 to over a million people in less than 10 years, in large part due to receiving inputs from and consolidating various other lists, all with differing criteria for being on the list.
"The NRA is a Union Lobby for gun manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers and gun runners. "
Nope. There is a completely different organization for that.
"People on the government's terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report."
Yep. There is currently no law prohibiting persons on a "terror watch list" from buying firearms. You see, in this country, rights are only forfiet if someone actually does something wrong.
How fortunate for those of us who still care about the Constitution that Bush and Gonzales were unsuccessful in their efforts to deprive us of our 2nd Amendment rights via the classic Republican-maintained "enemies list" approach.
Has anyone noticed that the only people getting rich on this issue are the gun and ammo companies?
The American terrorist organization Al-Craquer is fully supported by the NRA and the K K K! It is the equivalent to Al-Qaeda and just as dangerous. They are allowed to purchase guns and explosives because they are made up of white supremacists cells with connections to local law enforcement. All terrorists should be treated equally, either eliminate or capture them! Americas terrorists have always been able to stay under the radar because they do the business of the racist bigots who hide behind their public images while fully supporting the fear their radical subordinates instill in the targeted group. These groups could and should have been dealt with long ago, but when their appeal is underwritten by racism from the white house down, they have a sense of invincibility and of being above the law. Otherwise, Glenn Beck, Oreilly, Limbaugh and Hannity couldn't have programs that allow them to spew hate and violence upon the current President of the USA!
"They are allowed to purchase guns and explosives because they are made up of white supremacists cells with connections to local law enforcement."
Explosives may only be purchased by people with Destructive Device permits
You mean, that's the way it's supposed to work!
take10
"Al-Craquer"
Too rich!
Could some of the posters comparing Iran to Afghanistan and Iraq list some all of the similarities?
come on diphilip show me how smart you are
Not a single taker
There are no takers because you created a strawman.
You started by saying that people with AKs would melt into sop when faced with heavy armor. In both Iraq and Afghanistan, an opposition force who is far weaker has prevented far a superior force from achieving it's objectives. In that respect your original assertion that having the right to bear arms might make a difference for the Iranians is somewhat off base; and the events in both Iraq and Afghanistan disprove your premise that small arms can not mount a sustained campaign against heavy armor.
But on a larger scale, the situation in Iran is quite different from Afghanistan/Iraq. In both of those conflicts, the superior aggressive force (us) doesn't suffer any actual negative consequences from gun battles in the streets. In Iran, the dynamic would actually make armed citizens fighting back more potent - because the politicians are forced to live in proximity to the war they have created. That said, I don't necessarily "want" to see that result - but in their position I sure would want a shotgun when the basiji broke in to my home (and maybe they'd be a bit less eager if they were facing potentially armed households).
How much confidence do you have in those who maintain the watch lists?
Do you ever get the feeling that they are like the bozos who make you take your shoes off at the airports?
I get the feeling they ARE the bozos who make you take your shoes off at the airports (and won't let you bring an extra cell-phone battery).
Whining like that is how 9/11 was able to be pulled off in the first place. What terrible inconvenience to have to take your shoes off or charge your cell phone. Did your battery die in the middle of a game or favorite song? Guess what it's not always about you.
I have a suspicion you are indeed correct
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur -- what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!" ---Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn
DHS is a common enemy of the left and the right.
I see all the members of the 'fans of Red Dawn' club are here with their hallucination that somehow guns for the protesters are the answer in Iran. I know you think that guns will solve everything. Especially since they've compensated for your tiny dicks but try just this one time to use the other tiny thing you have....your brain.
Shooting at the police and Republican Guard will result in one thing....them responding with heavier weapons. This has always been a fallacy of the gun crowd that somehow their AK47 is a deterrent against an opponent with heavy weapons. We all know they'd piss their pants if confronted with an APC or tank.
Get real boneheads
How would your comment apply to a liberal gay man or woman that owns a gun for protection?
That might be the most incoherent response yet posted.
Think you're gettin' your ne uro tic hangups all mixed up.
That's what I thought...oops..
If what you say were correct, we would not be bogged down in Iraq or Afghanistan. Our superior weaponry should have easily eliminated all resistance .... right?
A band the Taliban with nothing but AK47s have held the great army of America at bay now for almost a decade. And the same happened in Iraq until we finally started working WITH the Iraqi militias instead of against them. America has thus far proven unable to defeat a sparsely armed group of people fighting in their own streets for in defense of their country.
Reality on the ground doesn't support your fallacy.
Actually it was their ability to shoot down Soviet helicopters with shoulder fired missiles that turned the tide in Afghanistan but don't let that fact bother your BS.
Comparing Afghanistan to Iran is totally stupid. The two countries have nothing in common. The two situations have nothing in common.
Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing in common between Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Be sure to footnote your comments with an up-to-date report of the de ad... Iraqi, Afghan AND U.S.
Nearly 5,000 U.S.
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, Iraqi and Afghani.
... the kind of math you'd no doubt love to see duplicated in Iran.
"Bogged down" is a relative expression, depending on where you sit, ain't it...
I love your post, and agree with you completely!
Yeah I can't quiet figgure out how those farmers in the late 1700 , or the Viet Namese did what they did to the Largest Best equiped Millitary force in the World.
Facts for you: The British were preoccupied elsewhere in the world so they could not put their full attention to the Revolution. The French helped us out immensely and they were the major enemy and competitor of the British.
When we left Vietnam there were no farmers in Black pajamas left. We had killed them during the Tet offensive. After the Tet offensive the main opponent as the North Vietnamese Army which was financed and supplied by the Soviet Union. When the Vietnamese defeated the South Vietnamese Army they did it with more Armor than Hitler used in invading Poland and France at the beginning of WW II.
And the GOP and NRA wouldn't have it any other way. But hey it's no problem they'll just sell more guns to everyone else. Pretty soon everyone in the country will be walking around the local grocery store with Uzis slung over their shoulders and gun fights will break out over parking spaces.
The claims of gun battles over parking spaces have been predicted by the gun ban brigade for 20 years--hasns't happened yet
Really? You mean there are never instances of guns being pulled and used during a heated argument? What planet do you live on?
There are approx 300 million guns in the U.S. and we don't see everyday people walking around with guns and fighting it out. That happens more in major cities and states that have extremely tight gun control laws. In those areas only the criminals and police have guns. Sometimes in LA and Chicago those are one and the same. By the way, a lot of states are open carry so we could legally walk around with a gun in the open
gun control and illegal immigration transcends party lines , in that only the extremist left (progressives) support both
Huh? So you support the extreme right, well the entire right to spend our money, our lives and our time fighting immoral wars in Iraq and provoking terrorists all over the world with 8 years of bad decisions and cowboy diplomacy....while at home bridges fell down from lack of inspections, cities drowned , the economy tanked and yet our ports remain unsecured, our borders are STILL not secure in any fashion, our National Guards are out of the country for years on end, our government agencies STILL don't have an effective method of communicating with each other on threats on our own soil...and now further proof of the GOP incompetence...the ones ON the terrorist list...can buy guns without so much as a blink?
Wow, your comment is about the most misguided comment I've heard since ah...Bush and his master Cheney had charge of the country and failed us on every count ESPECIALLY on security on our own soil.
Hey BethA, after having read several of your posts, I've seen the enemy, and it's you.
That's the story -- if you believe what is broadcast and published by the MSM.
If you dig deeper, you'll find that gun ownership transcends what is deemed by the MSM gas bags to be "left" or "right." That's why we still have gun ownership in this country.
Likewise, if you dig deeper, you'll also find that opposition to amnesty for illegal aliens transcends what the MSM considers to be "left" or "right."
May I suggest that the MSM is trying to influence your thinking with name calling.
The 'watch list' gun owners in your tra ile r pa rk appreciate your support.
Still doing your mental exercises by d riv ing your for eh ead into a block wall, I see.
Here's a question for all you Gun defenders out there who claim that guns protect your freedom.
Did gun ownership prevent the Japanese from being rounded up and interned during WWII?
If yes, you have a point; if no, you don't!!!
Anti-gunners are reduced to the most convaluted and narrowest of arguments.
If you don't have the will to defend yourself from a violent attack then fine. But don't deny that right to others just to soothe the pain of your own lack of courage.
So you want to get rid of guns? Call the White House and insist it, don't be insulted though when they start rolling around the floor laughing and then hang up on you..
Define this famous 'violent attack' and give an example of how you're going to defend yourself then tell me how this applies to Iran.
As a licensed gun owner, I'm more than prepared to "defend myself from a violent attack"... especially if it's launched by some k nu ckl e-dr ag ging hoople climbing in through my window who didn't have to go through the vetting, criminal background check and NRA handgun safety training I did.
Yours is a recurring and fa tally-flawed argument, namely that every opponent of a weapons free-for-all is opposed to gun ownership. You'd probably feel more comfortable on the road, too, if recidivist drunk drivers didn't have their licenses revoked.
Gun ownership did make a difference, as did the lack of gun ownership.
In contrast to those who rounded up the Japanese and who had guns, the Japanese came to this country as farm workers and other laborers who did not have a tradition of gun ownership.
What did they own? Look at the photos from the time period. They owned some clothes, cook ware, furniture, photographs and family mementos, record players and radios, but no guns.
Nice bigot post
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First Posted: 06-20-09 11:04 AM | Updated: 06-20-09 11:24 AM