New York Times:
People on the government's terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report.
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I know a place where you can own as many weapons as you like and no pesky government to curtail their use.
Somalia!
or Mexico.
actually--the only people owning guns in Mexico are the criminal cartels (namely the government and the drug dealers/trafficers)
good point!
...your point?
Unrestricted access to weapons does not lead to the utopia some suggest, case in point, Somlia.
Little to no government does not lead to the utopia some suggest, case in point, Somalia.
so people on the watch list tried to legally purchase guns and explosives and managed to do so legally...
What part of "terrorist" do you not understand?
Because you can make gunpowder, it's okay to buy it? Good ad for meth.
Making gun quality black powder isn't easy.
what part of "never convicted" or "arrested" or "innocent till proven guilty" do you not understand
These must be the people Michelle Bachmann was talking about when she said Americans should get their guns and protect themselves from Obama style socialism. Do we have a state sanctioned lunatic fringe in this country?
If I understand this article is about denying freedom without a law being broken. I view with extreme skepticism any such policy, not because of its intention if administered wisely but because of the consequence of it being administered badly. The policy that "people placed on the government’s terrorist watch list can be stopped from getting on a plane or getting a visa, but they cannot be stopped from buying a gun." I see little reason to believe our planes are more secure as a result of this policy. There are many holes in the security of airports that are not addressed in such a policy.
Emotionalism invades discourse and makes hyperbole common. Most people would not think twice about having bleach and ammonia in the garage. In today's media those chemicals could become "two unnamed integral components of a binary chemical weapon" and the means of combining them (a bucket). Obviously, any person with said components should be on a list and deprived of freedoms. This crass example could be extrapolated to the boundaries of imagination.
There is a great deal of fire, steel, stone, big waves, pathogen's and so on that can kill us and we will die one way or another. Let's live fully. I'm for being careful but not restricting freedoms. Freedom's we know will be abused, but only after abuse should the freedom be taken. Moreover, I am not a conservative.
amen and cosign!
If I understand this article is about denying freedom without a law being broken. I view with extreme skepticism any such policy, not because of its intention if administered wisely but because of the consequence of it being administered badly. The policy that "people placed on the government’s terrorist watch list can be stopped from getting on a plane or getting a visa, but they cannot be stopped from buying a gun." I see little reason to believe our planes are more secure as a result of this policy. There are many holes in the security of airports that are not addressed in such a policy.
Emotionalism invades discourse and makes hyperbole common. Most people would not think twice about having bleach and ammonia in the garage. In today's media those chemicals could become "two unnamed integral components of a binary chemical weapon" and the means of combining them (a bucket). Obviously, any person with said components should be on a list and deprived of freedoms. This crass example could be extrapolated to the boundaries of imagination.
There is a great deal of fire, steel, stone, big waves, pathogen's and so on that can kill us and we will die one way or another. Let's live fully. I'm for being careful but not restricting freedoms. Freedom's we know will be abused, but only after abuse should the freedom be taken. Moreover, I am not a conservative.
Actually, no, it is NOT about denying freedoms.
The point is that being on the "watch list" alone does NOT stop you purchasing weapons or explosives!
The "list" is useless and the so-called "Patriot Act" should be scrapped.
Think Obama will straighten out the NO FLY LIST?
Hell appoint a CZAR to do nothing (21 AND COUNTING)
The FBI was watching tea-baggers
Napolitano issued an alert on Constitution Party and Ron Paul bumper stickers
The FBI's report including mention of risk from domestic terrorists was initiated under the BUSH administration.
Seems it was quite justified too as there have been several instances of domestic terrorism.
If some of these extremists went to tea-parties, I'm glad they were watched.
Under Bush, everyone was "watched" particularly is you tried to exercise your freedom of speech.
Please cite reference on the Ron Paul bumper stickers.
So far, Obama is doing the same thing that Bush did
From the numbers we saw at the so-called tea parties, a half dozen FBI agents nationwide could have covered them all.
Good one!
I am curious about the purchase of 50 lbs. of explosives. What kind, who did it and why?
The buying "explosives" is misleading. You can buy powder for reloading but not ready made explosives. For that you have to have a license.
Speculation, speculation. People also can have permits for small amounts of dynamite, for instance. We just don't know what that 50 lbs was all about.
The TSA Watch List is a farce! Moreover, so is this asinine story.
http://www
Thanks for the link. We see in a story like this the danger of the lack of transparency in our government, where we can be arrested under secret laws, kept from our livelihoods by the decisions of unknown and un-named bureaucrats, and given no recourse or compensation.
It's time we became a little more like the citizens in Iran currently protesting government fraud and intolerance.
Maybe become more like citizens of America back in 1776?
Or maybe in 1783 when we got the Constitution which required in the Preamble that we the people are a Union (the right hates Unions) reserving all benifits of that Union to OURSELVES.
Say what? Not to for profit enterprises? OMG! UNIONS!
The Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Are these the people that the Neocons are complaining about Obama taking away their Second Amendment rights? Maybe guys like the nut job that killed Dr. Tiller in a CHURCH???! Because if he's not a terrorist, I don't know what is.
All this, plus criticism from Cheney and W, and yet Obama has kept us safe. I personally believe that on 9/11/09, the entire nation should hold a OK-US (acronym for Obama Keeping Us Safe), celebration/rally, unless Cheney's wishes come to fruition first.
OK-US -- has a very nice ring to it.
A vigorous 2nd amendment never has given the right to commit murder (which is the term for what happend to TIller)
Although I agree with your comment 100%, I'd like to add that it was murder committed by a home-grown domestic terrorist in a CHURCH, no less.
Isn't every citizen of the USA on the terror watch list?
Under the previous administration if you were a member of an anti-war group you were!
Not true, but then you guys tend to exagerate quite a bit.
And now, if you're part of an anti govt. group you are. Neither should be on the lists. Govt. shouldn't keep lists on their citizens, or at least citizens who aren't absolute verifiable threats.
Buy a gun, shoot a conservative. The irony...Oh
No! Violence solves nothing.
Non violence serves nothing?
Since the left doesn't know how to shoot... go ahead. Most likely you will end up shooting yourself.
My ribbon for marksmanship says different, pub.
I'd say if the ex-VP is an example, the right may not know...
Preventing people from purchasing firearms on the basis of being arbitrarily placed on a 'watch list' is clearly a violation of the second amendment under current Supreme Court interpretation. It is perhaps the one big reason that despite my otherwise progressive liberal views, I am thankful we have conservatives on the bench - though I question whether even the liberals could twist this legislation to be in line with the Constitution.
Ah yes, the 2nd Amendment.
I am glad that is preserves the right for people to form well regulated militias, thereby granting them permission to own firea.rms.
That's what they are doing, right? Purchasing gu.ns to help defend the country in a well regulated militia?
That it preserves*!
Co-sign. You know that you're banding your head against a wall don't you.
You have no idea what is meant by a "well regulated militia".
Our government should be on the terrorist list.
Did you say that when the bozo's you put in office created the list?
They can't get on an airplane, but they can buy guns and explosives. Nice.
Many people just don’t understand the Watch List. It has nothing to do with criminality. For instance, if your name is William, you will be put on the damned list as it is considered a terrorist name. Make sense, hell no, but this is the Bush legacy of stupidity.
The list is unconstitutional, should be repealed as it does noting for American safety, and only harasses law-abiding citizens. Being on the Watch List dose NOT prevent anyone from flying anywhere on the globe, it only add additional and costly screening that is repeated over and over no matter how many times a person is cleared.
Love your line:
"Bush legacy of stupidity.
Yes, dump the entire "Patriot Act."
I am very liberal and very progressive who is vehemently against guns and support legal immigration. There you have it.
I liberally support guns (and ammunition) and think we should send everybody back that came on the Mayflower and afterward, and their generations thereafter. Let's move to Canada!
I sorry, but I don't get "support legal immigratio
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First Posted: 06-20-09 11:04 AM | Updated: 06-20-09 11:24 AM