French Burqa Ban Commission Created

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JAMEY KEATEN | 06/23/09 05:10 PM | AP

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FILE - This Friday, June 19 ,2009, file photo shows a woman wearing the niqab, a veil worn by the most conservative Muslims that exposes only a woman's eyes, walks in the Belsunce district of downtown Marseille, central France. In the first presidential address to parliament in 136 years, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Monday, June 21, the Muslim burqa would not be welcome in France, calling the full-body religious gown a sign of the "debasement" of women. The terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably in France. The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil, often in black, with slits for the eyes. (AP Photo/Claude Paris,file)

PARIS — A top Muslim group in Britain lashed out at Nicolas Sarkozy as "patronizing and offensive" on Tuesday, after the French president said body- and face-covering Islamic garments such as the burqa turn women into prisoners.

In Paris, parliament formally created a commission Tuesday to study the wearing of body-cloaking Muslim robes in France, a day after Sarkozy told lawmakers that the burqa would not be welcome in the country.

A top official with the Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella organization for British Muslim groups, accused Sarkozy of "divisive politics," and said his comments could fan an "Islamophobic reaction" in Europe.

"It is patronizing and offensive to suggest that those Muslim women who wear the burqa do so because of pressure or oppression by their male partners or guardians," the council's assistant secretary-general, Reefat Drabu, said in a statement. "Such suggestions can legitimately be perceived as antagonistic towards Islam."

One of Britain's highest-profile Muslim politicians also joined the debate, saying it was not the government's job to decide what people should or should not wear.

"This freedom to choose is one of the great values of our nation and why we are revered around the world," Communities Minister Shahid Malik said. "There are no laws stating what clothes or attire are acceptable and so whether one chooses to wear a veil or burqa, a miniskirt or goth outfit is entirely at the individual's discretion."

In Paris, the 32-member commission set up by parliament, with members from France's four major political parties, will hold hearings that could lead to legislation banning burqas from being worn in public _ a move a top human rights group said would be counterproductive.

"Banning the burqa will not give freedom to women," Jean-Marie Fardeau, director of the Paris office of Human Rights Watch, said in a statement. "It will only stigmatize and marginalize women who wear it."

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France has Western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at 5 million. A small but growing group of French women wear burqas and niqabs, which either cloak the entire body or cover everything but the eyes.

Mohammed Moussaoui, the head of the French Council for the Muslim Faith, said he disagreed with the wearing of burqas as inconsistent with religious precepts _ but said a ban would be counterproductive.

"A commission on a marginal phenomenon astonishes us _ even more so because the current debate tends to stigmatize Muslims in France," Moussaoui was quoted as saying in comments to be published Wednesday in France's Le Parisien daily. The Associated Press received an advance copy of his remarks.

On Monday, Sarkozy told a joint session of parliament that he supported banning burqas in public, calling them "a sign of debasement" for women.

"We cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."

Last week, a group of 60 lawmakers from all political parties signed a petition demanding a parliamentary study on the wearing of burqas. Muslim groups and government officials say it is difficult to know how many women wear burqas and niqabs in France, but estimate the number to be at least in the hundreds. They are far less prevalent than simpler Muslim head scarves.

The commission is expected within six months to complete its work, which could lead to a proposed law on burqas.

A similar type of commission led to a 2004 law banning the wearing of Muslim head scarves at public schools, along with Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses.

In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably. A burqa is a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan _ with only a mesh screen over the eyes. A niqab is a full-body veil, often black, with slits for the eyes.

___

AP writer Raphael G. Satter in London contributed to this report.

PARIS — A top Muslim group in Britain lashed out at Nicolas Sarkozy as "patronizing and offensive" on Tuesday, after the French president said body- and face-covering Islamic garments such as th...
PARIS — A top Muslim group in Britain lashed out at Nicolas Sarkozy as "patronizing and offensive" on Tuesday, after the French president said body- and face-covering Islamic garments such as th...
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The following is a link to an article written by a British Muslim woman, who tells the truth about women, religion and the burqa -- a must read for those who will try to convince us that wearing it is a religious freedom or choice; a must read for anyone who will too quickly believe what they have to say.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 06/24/2009

The following is a link to an article written by a British Muslim woman, who tells the truth about women, religion and the burqa

Is she an scholar of Islam? Islam is not what people's opinion or decided by the popular votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 06/27/2009
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If a culture said that all left handed people, or all red-heads must completely cover themselves, it would not be accepted. Just as it should not be accepted for women. People are arguing that it is a woman's choice. No, it is not. It is generation after generation of brainwashing. It is oppression, and it's being passed on to young girls, and it has to stop somewhere. This is a starting point. I applaud Sarkozy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 AM on 06/24/2009

Well put

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:00 AM on 06/24/2009

Totally agree.

All women must find the courage to say loudly that this practice has nothing to do with religion and must stop NOW.

It is abuse of women under the guise of religion, plain and simple. No other argument acceptable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 06/24/2009
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This is a clear infringement on religious expressions! This is the point of a democracy, freedom of expression, however unsavory!

This is the price of a free world -- let's not behave like the religious thugs in the middle east and create this restrict law on religion. It's the women's decision, not politicians. France is walking a fine and dangerous line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 06/24/2009

It is clear oppression and brainwashing. There is no where in the Koran that says these are and must be worn by women. Its only to keep them down, its to appease some guy's low self-ego issue and has been allowed to go on for long enough. in other countries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 AM on 06/24/2009

No, kimarley, there's no way anyone can tell what the women's decision is under these coercive circumstances, and that's the whole point.

Americans know all about religious freedom. If people choose to handle venomous snakes as part of their religion here, they can. They can't demand the right to wear that snake around their necks to the grocery store, though.

That's why cloistered, repressive polygamous (or...not) cults are treading a very fine line, and always in danger of SWAT-team-esque government raids, and why the American Amish are really smart to have built-in release valves of trade with the outside world, and the tradition of young adults living for a period outside Amish culture and values, so any decision to continue in Amish communities will be an informed one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 06/24/2009
- overcat I'm a Fan of overcat 25 fans permalink

Seems as though the issue is the face covering. Deal with that, and there's no issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 06/24/2009

Actually, you're right, overcat. At least in many countries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 07/08/2009

banning the burqa - my hero! you are saving the baby girls from being brainwashed. we did not tolerate foot-binding of chinese women as it crippled their feet and forced them to hobble. why tolerate a burqa that cripples a woman's spirit? hope the rest of the western world does the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 06/23/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 73 fans permalink
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Tell a woman what she can't do, and she will :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 06/23/2009
- rocko2466 I'm a Fan of rocko2466 3 fans permalink
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Burqas are the new black this summer!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 PM on 06/23/2009
- fbr79 I'm a Fan of fbr79 12 fans permalink
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Thank god the French still have some guts to come in defense of women and Western values. The British establishment calls it "multiculturalism", which seems like such a nice concept. This idea, however, has nothing to do with the American "melting pot" ideal of every group contributing to create a new identity. Instead, it encourages people to stay isolated within their ethinic/religious communities. It does not require that people adapt in any degree to British culture. As an extremist reaction to this you have the rise of the BNP. This organization has been steadily gaining ground with the indigenous White people with it's openly racist ideology.

The UK is going down a very dangerous path. Why is a British Muslim group complaining about what the French President says? Because the French people know that the French government will not be pushed around by any religious or ethnic group, unlike it's British counterparts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 06/23/2009
- cavegal I'm a Fan of cavegal 189 fans permalink
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You bring up some excellent points regarding the British. They were so tolerant that British MI6 and Scotland Yard were completely oblivious to the fact that extremist Muslim bookshops were selling literature and books invoking hatred against the British and westerners in general. Including fatwahs to incite violence against the infidels written by some of the most extremist Mullahs in the Islamic world. This is well documented in both of Bob Baer's books, "See No Evil" and "Sleeping With The Devil". Because he is fluent in Arabic he was able to browse through all of the titles for sale and the discourse within the pages. Complete hatred against all things Western. The British were caught totally off guard during the multiple attacks in London that were perpetrated by British Muslim citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 PM on 06/23/2009
- cavegal I'm a Fan of cavegal 189 fans permalink
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And PS one of the terrorist tried to escape hidden in a Burqa which also happened immediately after the bombing of the mosque in Pakistan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 06/23/2009

Does mutual respect mean French can bathe topless in Algeria? Can miniskirts and low jeans be worn in the capitals of the East. Tolerance means respecting this and that, at least thats always been my understanding of the word.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 06/23/2009
- rocko2466 I'm a Fan of rocko2466 3 fans permalink
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No it doesn't. Apparently, we only want to hold the West to these standards.

It is a sign of great disrespect to the Arab world that we won't hold them to the same high standards we hold ourselves and our European counterparts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 06/23/2009

Last week a report was released in France, detailing the extent of the country's incidence of domestic violence. One woman dies every two days, and one man every two weeks. Around 200 people a year. This commission, investigating the dress habits of a few hundred women in a country of 65 million, seems merely a smokescreen, a show of doing something for women. Domestic violence is hidden behind something far more impenetrable than fabric. Any legislation deeming what is fit for a woman to wear in public seems in itself far more sexist, and a dangerous precedent than any outfit covering the body.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 06/23/2009
- Atcha I'm a Fan of Atcha 3 fans permalink

Domestic violence is illegal, face covering outfits are already illegal (for both genders) during protests

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 06/24/2009
- Jaywalkker I'm a Fan of Jaywalkker 51 fans permalink
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Will he also be banning a nun's habit and clergy's cassock?

The burqa and niqab are religious expression. I hate them as much as the next person, but the women themselves have to take it off, not the government. Its the women who need to reform the religion, not the government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 06/23/2009

The women are brainwashed, coerced and forced to wear these atrocious things. They DO NOT HAVE THE POWER to defy the males who are controlling them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 06/23/2009
- Jaywalkker I'm a Fan of Jaywalkker 51 fans permalink
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I think all religion is a matter of selective brainwashing, coercion, and force of some sort. Even Liberty University squashed a democratic student group (now rescinded). The point is that it is up to the people in that religion to reform it. Change cannot be brought at the edge of a sword or the rapping of a judge's gavel.

If a woman throws off the burqa or niqab and her community forces her back into it, involve the state. If a woman is punished by her people because of activism against it, involve the state. You walk in and start hamfistedly telling people how to live and they will fight back and sink deeper into their mindset.

Look up Debbie Palmer - she fled a polygamous cult on her own. Others who've been removed from similar circumstances forcibly return.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 06/23/2009
- Jaywalkker I'm a Fan of Jaywalkker 51 fans permalink
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Look up Debbie Palmer - on her own, with no support, she fled a polygamous cult. There are other anecdotal cases in which children or others who are forcibly taken from a cult return as soon as they can

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 AM on 06/24/2009
- Atcha I'm a Fan of Atcha 3 fans permalink

Nuns and clergy show off their face in public, why should their outfits be banned? Boubous are also welcomed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 06/24/2009
- ultrabop I'm a Fan of ultrabop 15 fans permalink
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He will also have to ban Halloween costumes as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 06/23/2009
- Atcha I'm a Fan of Atcha 3 fans permalink

It's not Halloween it's Carnival when people dress up in Europe and there have been legislations for centuries that specified that forbidden piece of clothing (like masks or transgender disguises) were tolerated on the street for the Carnical period

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 06/24/2009
- Mayuki I'm a Fan of Mayuki 2 fans permalink

Vive la France! I can only hope that other Western nations will follow your lead! Vive, vive, vive la France!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 06/23/2009
- PaxMundis I'm a Fan of PaxMundis 13 fans permalink

Speaking as neither a muslim or a woman, I have to say that this is incredibly patronizing. No one should have to wear the burka if they don't want to. But banning it is simply intolerant, period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 07/17/2009
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