Reverse Discrimination Ruling Will Cause Confusion, Lawyers Say

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DAVE COLLINS | 06/30/09 03:06 AM | AP

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HARTFORD, Conn. — The Supreme Court ruling in favor of white New Haven firefighters who said they were victims of reverse discrimination will probably leave employers confused, civil rights advocates and labor attorneys say.

The court ruled 5-4 Monday that the white firefighters were denied promotions unfairly because of their race, reversing a decision that high court nominee Sonia Sotomayor endorsed as a federal appeals court judge.

The majority of justices said the city was wrong to scrap a promotion exam because no African-Americans and only two Hispanic firefighters were likely to be made lieutenants or captains based on the results. The city said it had acted to avoid a lawsuit from minorities.

While the court upheld that employers still have an obligation under civil rights laws to avoid discrimination in hiring, promoting and compensating workers, the ruling creates confusing standards on how to meet that obligation, said Wade Henderson, president and chief executive of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

"Employers will now face a convoluted minefield when attempting to protect workers from discrimination," Henderson said. "Employers are looking for bright lines ... they're looking for clear directives to help them better understand how they can engage in nondiscriminatory decisions."

The ruling is confusing, Henderson said, because the high court seemed to say that while New Haven officials tried to avoid discrimination, throwing out the test was discriminatory. "It puts employers in a real quandary," he said.

The Obama administration should direct the government's civil rights agencies to offer guidance on the ruling, said Shirley Wilcher, executive director of the American Association for Affirmative Action.

"In the meantime, we're scratching our heads," she said. "We're concerned about the impact on employers who want to comply with the law and do not want to discriminate ... and it's not clear how to do that."

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Bernard Jacques, a Hartford-based labor and employment attorney, also believes the ruling will stump many employers. The court ruled that test results alone are not enough to prove discrimination, that a "strong basis in evidence" is needed, but justices didn't define that phrase, Jacques said.

Justice Anthony Kennedy said in the ruling, "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions." He was joined in the majority by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.

In dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the white firefighters "understandably attract this court's sympathy. But they had no vested right to promotion. Nor have other persons received promotions in preference to them."

Justices David Souter, Stephen Breyer and John Paul Stevens signed onto Ginsburg's dissent, which she read aloud in court Monday. Speaking dismissively of the majority opinion, she predicted the court's ruling "will not have staying power."

The ruling is "a sign that individual achievement should not take a back seat to race or ethnicity," said Karen Torre, the firefighters' attorney. "I think the import of the decision is that cities cannot bow to politics and pressure and lobbying by special interest groups or act to achieve racial quotas."

At a news conference on the steps of city hall in New Haven, firefighter Frank Ricci, the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit, said the ruling showed that "if you work hard, you can succeed in America."

New Haven, trying to fill senior fire department vacancies, gave a test to 77 candidates for lieutenant and 41 candidates for captain. Fifty-six firefighters passed the exams, including 41 whites, nine blacks and six Hispanics. But of those, only 17 whites and two Hispanics could expect promotion.

The city eventually decided not to use the exam to determine promotions. It said it acted because it might have been vulnerable to claims that the exam had a "disparate impact" on minorities in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

The white firefighters said the decision violated the same law's prohibition on intentional discrimination. Twenty white plaintiffs sued.

The city declined to validate the test after it was given, a step that could have identified flaws or determined that there were no serious problems with it. In addition, city officials could not say what was wrong with the test, other than the racially skewed results.

"The city could be liable for disparate-impact discrimination only if the examinations were not job related" or the city failed to use a less discriminatory alternative, Kennedy said. "We conclude that there is no strong basis in evidence to establish that the test was deficient in either of these respects."

But Ginsburg said the court should have assessed "the starkly disparate results" of the exams against the backdrop of historical and ongoing inequality in the New Haven fire department. As of 2003, she said, only one of the city's 21 fire captains was African-American.

___

Associated Press writers Mark Sherman in Washington, D.C., and Katie Nelson in New Haven contributed to this report.

HARTFORD, Conn. — The Supreme Court ruling in favor of white New Haven firefighters who said they were victims of reverse discrimination will probably leave employers confused, civil rights advo...
HARTFORD, Conn. — The Supreme Court ruling in favor of white New Haven firefighters who said they were victims of reverse discrimination will probably leave employers confused, civil rights advo...
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- langej I'm a Fan of langej 10 fans permalink
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I am really tired of the term "reverse discrimination."
To imply that racial discrimination has an inherrent direction, that discrimination against one race is different from discrimination against another race is, in and of itself, a racist position. People who use the term are racists - whether conciously or not.

Discriminating against a person or group because of skin color is discrimination. Period. Full stop.

Using the term in the Ricci case, which is an exteremly complex one that must weigh the concepts disparate treatment and disparate result, is an attempt to muddy the waters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 AM on 07/08/2009

Why Ricci v. DeStefano IS important:

(1) Intentional discrimination often occurs behind closed doors -- COVERT discrimination is not equivalent to UNINTENTIONAL discrimination.

(2) The 4/5 rule -- where the percentage of minority candidates being selected is less than 4/5 the majority candidates -- allowed a lawsuit to proceed to discovery where there was at least a possibility to prove covert discrimination.

(3) Without the 4/5 rule, companies can now discriminate so long as they do not make blatant statements about how they refuse to hire minorities.

(4) Griggs v. Duke Power (1971) demonstrates how covert discrimination occured and continues to occur in both large and small organizations to this day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 PM on 07/07/2009
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I am a Democrat but I don't automatically side with every liberal point of view. In this case I believe the Supreme Court is correct. For the case to have gone as far as the highest court in the land, I am sure the issue regarding the validity of the tests has been scrutinized and factored into their decision. I see the merits of giving minority members an advantage but one form of eliminating discrimination creates another. The city must to more to train minority members. After all, the ones at risk are the public they are obligated to protect and serve.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 06/30/2009
- jsgaetano I'm a Fan of jsgaetano 202 fans permalink
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It's been a good week for racial discriminators.

This particular decision says that so long as you racially bias your tests, you will be allowed to discriminate.

Then the Voting Rights Act decision said that counties can simply file to exempt themselves from Federal law, even though such is not granted by the law in any way.

This is all from the "strict constructionists" on the GOoPer SCOTUS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 06/30/2009
- countfloyd I'm a Fan of countfloyd 14 fans permalink

"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. "

Frank Zappa

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 06/30/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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Seriously,

Can anyone link to examples of test questions that were deemed to be discriminatory against one race or another?

I would be interested to see a few examples.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 06/30/2009
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You won't see them. There is no such thing.

From what I understand, it wasn't the test itself that got the city scared, but the results of the test. They were afraid that minorities would sue because the people that passed were not proportionate in diversity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 06/30/2009
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Given the history of bias and discrimination in municipal police and firefighting, and the ongoing hazing of those minority candidates that do persevere, such a reaction is predictable. Examinations are only one criteria for promotion in these professions. The more important factor is nepotism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 06/30/2009

Sotomayor position was unreasonable, strikingly the court was unanimous in rejecting the Sotomayor panel’s specific holding. Her holding was that New Haven’s decision to spurn the test results must be upheld based solely on the fact that highly disproportionate numbers of blacks had done badly on the exam and might file a “disparate-impact” lawsuit — regardless of whether the exam was valid or the lawsuit could succeed.”

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 06/30/2009
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Actually, the decision wasn't unanimous. If you actually read, it was 5-4. Now, I realize this might be hard for you to understand, but that isn't unanimous.

Jeez, how are you righties gonna get back in power if you don't even pay attention? Or are you paying attention, but just unable to understand?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 06/30/2009
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Yeah - put on that dunce cap, will ya'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 06/30/2009
- jsgaetano I'm a Fan of jsgaetano 202 fans permalink
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Conservatives claimed GWB losing the 2000 election was a mandate... so they are proven to be unclear on the concept of things like unanimous, or letting voters decide. Or reading laws.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 06/30/2009
- devildog21 I'm a Fan of devildog21 38 fans permalink

Sotomayor was part of a panel that was unanimous in their decision to uphold New Haven's decision. That must be the unanimous decision you're thinking of, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 06/30/2009
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I see white people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 06/30/2009
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I see an ignorant r@c1$t

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 06/30/2009
- annie g I'm a Fan of annie g 28 fans permalink

I would like to know how a test about one's job is considered racist against a certain group of people. What type of questions about firefighting on the exam are considered white questions and which are considered black or hispanic questions? Is it only white people that make up these tests? If that is the case why don't they have black, hispanic, white, chinese, polish, german, russian and anyone else that might apply for a firefighting position in the future to make up the test so we don't hear the about "reverse" discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination.
I believe this was the right verdict in this case.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 06/30/2009
- roald I'm a Fan of roald 16 fans permalink

One of the first SCOTUS cases was Griggs vs. Duke Power
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0401_0424_ZO.html

In that case, a test that had nothing to do with job skills or performance was administered to people up for promotion (to a Whites-only job), in lieu of a high school diploma. At the time, Blacks qualified for the entry-level position had a much lower high school completion rate than did Whites. The court ruled that an employment test had to measure characteristics of learning and performing the job.

This test was supposed to be race neutral and focus on the skills needed to be a successful Fire Department Lieutenant. Perhaps it succeeded, but the results did not reflect what the city expected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 06/30/2009

But Ginsburg said the court should have assessed "the starkly disparate results" of the exams against the backdrop of historical and ongoing inequality in the New Haven fire department. As of 2003, she said, only one of the city's 21 fire captains was African-American.

1- we haven't seen the tests.
2- is there really that much cultural difference or is it something else.
3- reading and writing and rithmatic. the three r's. being brutally honest here;
a person can be a perfectly wonderful firefighter and not be able to read perfectly nor write very well.
A Captain has to be able to read well, write clearly and manage his crews extemely well.
This whole issue could have been avoided. the city could have accepted the results in 2003 and the following year found a better test which would have allowed some of the minorities better chances of passing. Life is real and life is earnest. and never fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 06/30/2009
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The problem is that the idea that a question is racially biased is false. There is no such thing as a question that only a certain race could answer. We all have brains, and if you want to do well on a test, you study.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 06/30/2009
- apoyo I'm a Fan of apoyo 40 fans permalink

You can have color blind testing when you have color blind schooling.

When every single public school in this country has the same amount of money and the same conditions and equipment, that will be the end of discrimination.

Until that happens the "confusion" will continue.
A child who goes to school hungry to a school deficient in services and lacking qualified teachers will never have the same building block foundation as a child who does not suffer those conditions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 06/30/2009
- swanie I'm a Fan of swanie 31 fans permalink
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The most logically coherent and well thought out comment I have read on this article.

I am a former middle school teacher who had 7th and 8th graders who could not do simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division in their heads. And I mean SIMPLE problems.

Our education system, in a macro sense, is absolutely in the sewer, and it will have reverberations in our people and our economy for decades if nothing is done to fix it ON A NATIONAL SCALE !
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 06/30/2009

Spot On. thank you apoyo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 06/30/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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Exactly.

Equal education is the way to equality. Affirmative action and reverse racism simply beget more racism.

As long as most schools budgets are tied to the property values in their districts, we'll never succeed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 06/30/2009
- newiceage I'm a Fan of newiceage 9 fans permalink
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Then,

you all need to hurry up and get the vouchers and charter schools in place

and dismantle the teachers unions that have been sacrificing our childrens education for their owns special interests for forty years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 06/30/2009
- devildog21 I'm a Fan of devildog21 38 fans permalink

The right wing response to everything. Privatize. The teachers in this country have taken it on the chin for so long that unionization was inevitible. They deserve to be fairly compensated because what they do is so important to our future as a nation. If we put a fraction of the money we spend on defense into schools, we could see huge improvement in very short order.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 06/30/2009
- stylenease I'm a Fan of stylenease 18 fans permalink
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Silly republicans, they think they own the Supreme Court. I don't care if Sotomayor said the sky is falling and the grass is purple -- she WILL be confirmed and there is very little any naysaying republican can do about it. Next up -- Diane Wood!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 06/30/2009
- newiceage I'm a Fan of newiceage 9 fans permalink
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Its Ok,

Sonia is prolife.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 06/30/2009
- newiceage I'm a Fan of newiceage 9 fans permalink
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Diane is Ok too,

her dad was an executive with Exxon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 06/30/2009
- PINO I'm a Fan of PINO 18 fans permalink
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that's ok. Soto wont change the Right Leaning Supreme Court much. And by the time a new appoint is needed(2012), we will have another Republican in the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 06/30/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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In the NBA, more than 80 % of the players are black. Blacks are only 12 % of the population.

Should we look at NBA scouting methods (tests) to see if they are discriminatory? Clearly they are having a "disparate impact"...

Also, I know that no one has a copy of the firefighter test, but can anyone produce ANY examples of ANY test questions that are biased to one minority over another?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 06/30/2009
- loki I'm a Fan of loki 128 fans permalink
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Having witnessed college scouting I can only comment on that, but it has nothing to do with intelligence or test scores. It has all to do with performance and saleability. By saleability I mean how good does he look. Think about it, can you name an overly ugly NBA or college star?
Image is everything, even in sports. So if he can score high, and looks at least good enough to market the face, he is wanted by the scouts. If he is great looking, and can score some of the time, He is wanted by the Scouts.
Is that what your referring to?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 06/30/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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No, I'm just referring to the fact that the results of the test are what is being used to call the test discriminatory. If you use that as your only criteria, you could call the NBA racist.

If you can't explain why the actual test itself is discriminatory, then you are not arguing for the best man to win, you are arguing for a quota system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 06/30/2009

Lol your joking right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 06/30/2009

I asked the same question.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 06/30/2009
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The National Hockey League is over 90% white, should we test the NHL scouting methods to see if they are discriminatory? Clearly they are having a "disparate impact"... Malkin71 you can see how easily it is to play the race card. Stop showing your racist side. By the way I do not believe promotions should be race or gender based. It's want an applicants scores that counts.(Pun not intended)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 06/30/2009
- Malkin71 I'm a Fan of Malkin71 26 fans permalink
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I'm showing my anti-reverse racist side.

If you don't think promotions should be race or gender based and that applicant's score that should count, then you agree with this decision, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 06/30/2009
- loki I'm a Fan of loki 128 fans permalink
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I for one am glad that soon this wont even by a problem anymore. With the intermixing of races happening now, Im betting within no more than 50 years it will be hard to say just what race someone is in America. That will be a great day when we dont have to worry about racist and racism anywhere in America as race will no longer be an issue, as it should never have been an issue. But due to ignorance and fear, its run a muck in America and still does. I know at least in the city where I live right now just about 1 out of every 4 children born within the last 10 years is of mixed race, and the number is growing fast. Not fast enough if you ask me. Once we are a majority of mixed race, racism is dead. I hope

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 06/30/2009
- xargaw I'm a Fan of xargaw 32 fans permalink

Everytime the Supremes rule, the minority opinion is over-ridden. So what is the big deal if a lower court decision is reversed. The Supremes oppose each other every time a decision is NOT UNANIMOUS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 06/30/2009

Not true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 06/30/2009
- roald I'm a Fan of roald 16 fans permalink

How not true? Unless the vote is unanimous, some justices agreed with the lower courts and some did not. Even when some justices disagreed, they may have agreed in part. Thus, had a dissenting justice been on the lower court, the same decision would have been reached by that lower court.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 06/30/2009
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