Guns In Bars Approved By Arizona Lawmakers

PHOENIX — The Arizona Senate has given final approval to a bill that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry a gun into a business that serves alcohol.

The 19-8 vote completes legislative action on the bill and sends it to Republican Gov. Jan Brewer. She has not said whether she will sign it, but she has long been a supporter of gun rights.

The measure has pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other, sparking a debate about whether guns and alcohol can coexist without bloodshed.

Critics of the measure say guns and alcohol are a dangerous combination.

"We don't let people drink and drive, why should we let them drink and carry guns?" said Sen. Paula Aboud, D-Tucson, who voted against the bill.

Supporters say they should be able to protect themselves and their families even if they happen to be inside a business serving alcohol.

"It's very important that criminals are now afraid rather than law abiding citizens," said Sen. Jack Harper, R-Surprise, the bill's sponsor.

The measure would ban drinking while packing and allow restaurants to deny entry to gun-toting citizens by posting a sign next to their liquor license.

Story continues below

advertisement

The bill initially required that a bar serving alcohol also serve food, but that provision was removed at the request of bar owners who worried about uncertainty over which bars have kitchens.

Forty other states have approved similar measures, according to the National Rifle Association.

In Tennessee, restaurant owners and others filed a lawsuit Wednesday over a similar law that goes into effect July 14, saying it "encourages breaches of peace and unlawful vigilantism."

Randy Rayburn, owner of several Nashville restaurants and a plaintiff, said the measure is an "antibusiness law" that not only jeopardizes public safety, but increases employer liability and hurts tourism and hospitality businesses.

"The Legislature did not understand the unintended consequences of their actions," Rayburn said.

Former Gov. Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, vetoed a similar bill earlier this decade that would not have required people to have concealed weapons permits in order to carry guns in bars.

More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed weapons permits, which require a gun safety course and background check, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

___

Associated Press Writer Lucas L. Johnson II from Nashville, Tenn., contributed to this report.

___

On the Net:

Arizona Legislature: http://www.azleg.gov

National Rifle Association: http://www.nra.com

Comments

[twogunmojo]

this was buried a few pages back....
Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachucetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming, PLUS Arizona. that's 39 states in all...
do you live in one of these states...then the idiots you elected voted for guns in bars.....

[twogunmojo]

l live in tn...and the only thing randy rayburn can speak to with any knowledge is wines...he has the largest cellar of any restaurant in nashville...his bar the sunset grille has excellent food...but if he thinks that people already don't carry guns in bars and restaurants in nashville he is sadly mistaken...as a person who used to frequent the high end establishments in nashville i can attest to this fact...nashville is a small town...there is no posh part of town where only the rich people go...the bums and derelicts who sleep on the riverfront can walk to his place in about 15 minutes....and downtown is a vibrant mix of live....the homeless shelter and the country music hall of fame are across the street from each other...the union station hotel and the frist art center are one block from some of the best strip clubs around....

[twogunmojo]

alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be the name of a store not a government agency...

[Saidas]

Alcohol and gunpowder is always a good combination. What could possibly go wrong?

[Thirdpower]

Thank you for proving my point.

[OdinsEye]

Ever look up the origins of the term "proof" as used to measure the percentage of alcohol?

[Thirdpower]

So of all the people that oppose this, can you cite statistics from any of the other 40 states that already allow it that it has been a problem?

I'll wait.

[azriverqueen]

What protection? Protection from others carrying guns?

[OdinsEye]

From people who are carrying illegally. From people with knives. From people who are bigger, stronger, faster and are intent on causing death or serious bodily harm.

[BlackJAC]

So basically, by your own admission, this is a form of affirmative action/socialism.

[jsgaetano]

So basically, your gun is a security blanket which protects you from the big scary verile brown people.

[azriverqueen]

To: Thirdpower

When he walked in, the gun was in his waistband....and 30 seconds later his gun was pointed three feet from my face! So you tell me "person who probably has never been threaten with a gun" about not causing trouble.

[OdinsEye]

And the guy was carrying illegally. A person with a concealed carry permit is much more likely to not do anything illegal with his firearm.

This law only allows those with a valid legal concealed carry permit to carry in establishments which serve alcohol. That is roughly 5% of the gun owners in AZ.

[jsgaetano]

Yes, because a concealed weapon has never been used in a crime...

[Ohio9]

If he was not a criminal and lawfully carrying a concealed weapon, then you would never see the gun in the first place. So it would not be an issue. That's why they call it CONCEALED carry.

You seem to be confusing lawful CCW holders with violent criminals. A common gun control advocates error.

[Thirdpower]

So basically you're comparing a criminal to someone who open carries as well as making the usual assumptions about people?

[Ohio9]

Being a gun control advocate means you get to repeat the same lies as many times as you want, no matter how often they are proven false.

Take this for example. Every time CCW is legalized, the anti-self defense crowd shouts "blood in the streets! Shootouts over minor arguments! Rambo wannabees gunning down bystanders in a vain attempt to thwart crime!"

Then when CCW is legalized and none of that happeneds, do they apologize and admit they were wrong? Of course not! They just wait until a law for expanding CCW to new places comes up for a vote and make the exact same claims all over again.

The bottom line is that CCW holders are very lawful and responsible. In the state of Florida, for example, out of 1.5 million CCW permits issued since 1987, only 167 have been revoked for firearms related incidents! Just 167 out of 1.5 million! Who else has a track record that good?

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html

CCW holders are lawful and smart enough to avoid drinking when they are packing, even when they are in bars. Those few people who do not care about the law against drinking while carrying a gun clearly would not care about the laws against carrying guns either, and so they would not be effected by this new law at all.

[BlackJAC]

Being a gun fetishist (as opposed to a gun owner) means you get to live in some parallel reality where HALO 3 and action movies are based on real life.

Take this for example. Bragging about having a concealed-carry permit kind of defeats the entire rationale behind the concept of the concealed-carry permit in the first place. Might as well wear a bullseye on your back at that point.

Then when human nature kicks in as it invariably does, the fetishists wail about how they're being persecuted.

The bottom line is that this is simply feel-good legislation for the questionably macho. It serves no real purpose beyond that.

[Ohio9]

Call it "feel good" legislation if it re-enforces your hateful stereotypes and helps you sleep at night. That really doesn't bother me.

But still, you have shown no evidence whatsoever that this law is going to cause any problems. It's telling that even someone who hates gun owners can't come up with a good reason to oppose this law.

[Mark0]

Is it your claim that a human's nature is to do the wrong thing in any given situation?
That gun owners are largely incapable of being responsible or following the law?

Since the greatest vast majority of gun owners have hurt no one, I suggest that your implication is false.

The bottom line is that a firearm can be used to protect life in any setting, and that is the purpose for this law.

[Mark0]

"It serves no real purpose beyond that."

It serves no purpose except to allow good folks with cc permits to eat their supper in places that also serve alcohol.

Up until now, those places welcomed felons and violent offenders equally and with open arms, but banned those carrying lawfully.

Some of whom were off-duty and undercover law enforcement, all of whom had passed the necessary background checks to get a cc permit.

[azriverqueen]

To: justmeinaz

Just saying the potential for tragedy is increased -- it could happen. Why invite trouble... I'm just trying to understand the gun culture. No one who supports gun rights has explained why it's necessary to carry a gun into a bar. Maybe there's a legitimate reason but I haven't heard it yet.

[OdinsEye]

"No one who supports gun rights has explained why it's necessary to carry a gun into a bar. "

Same reason to carry a firearm anywhere -- protection.

[BlackJAC]

Protection from what? If your town is that violent, perhaps you should move elsewhere.

[BlackJAC]

What we call "gun culture" didn't exist until 1993. Before then, the NRA was rather sane and guns were simply part of the scenery. AM talk radio somehow twisted all that into a lifestyle somehow covered by labor law.

[Ohio9]

And your proof of this claim is......?

[OdinsEye]

"What we call "gun culture" didn't exist until 1993"

LOL.... You are too funny! Please, do some research before you put your other foot in your mouth.

[LMPE]

To quote Obama:

They cling to their guns.

[Thirdpower]

FUnny all the comments proclaiming 'wild west shootouts' and drunks w/ guns when 40 states already allow it.

Seems it's not that big of a problem.

[BlackJAC]

Funny all the comments playing weaselmath with car fatality statistics in some demented and desperate attempt to make this all seem like it's not simply feel-good legislation for people who are afraid of their own shadows sponsored by guys who couldn't go two days in school without getting bullied.

Seems it's a real big issue for people who don't understand that they really should leave their psycho toys at home because real life isn't a HALO 3 tournament.

[Ohio9]

Yet you can't cite a single example of this law causing problems.

[OdinsEye]

"people who are afraid of their own shadows sponsored by guys who couldn't go two days in school without getting bullied"

I see you are projecting again.

[Thirdpower]

So basically you've got nothing except personal attacks.

SOP for 'gun controllers'.

[Meah]

My family in Az needs to know this.

[OdinsEye]

You think they don't have news media in AZ?

[BlackJAC]

Sure they do: town criers, leaflets, gossiping at the feed store...

[Mark0]

Yes. They need to know that people with clean records, who have never harmed anyone, and have gone through the steps to get a cc permit can now eat with them in a restaraunt that also serves alcohol.

Of course violent criminals could eat with your family in those places all along and no one seemd bothered by that in the least, but your family didn't need to know that.

[damilitantone]

Great, a bunch of drunks with guns at the ready. This reminds me of a certain movie from back in the day. I can see it now all of the colorful characters from yesteryear engaging in the following conservations, by the way "Welcome to Tombstone":

Ike Clanton: Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog. Law don't go around here. Savvy?
Wyatt Earp: I'm retired.
Curly Bill: Good. That's real good.
Ike Clanton: Yeah, that's good, Mr. Law Dog, 'cause law don't go around here.
Johnny Ringo: And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
Johnny Ringo: Yeah, you look it.
Doc Holliday: And you must be Ringo. Look, darling, Johnny Ringo. The deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?
Kate: You don't even know him.
Doc Holliday: Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.

The Old West lives again!

[djkrlsn]

Only thing is, the "Wild West" was safer than places like DC, Chicago and other cities with strict gun control

[BlackJAC]

The modern NRA didn't exist in the Wild West, either; what's your point?

[ThinkCreeps]

Better to install a bar in every gun - a little camelbak for hooch tucked around the barrel. New purchases would even be an economic stimulus, and you wouldn't be forced to drink if you didn't want to.

[azriverqueen]

Here's the scenario: A guy who has had a tad too much to drink gets bumped at the bar by another who has had too much alcohol, feels assaulted, and then feels the need to defend himself, merely flashes his gun as a jester to back off. The other guy who now feels threatened whips out his gun in defense, and then their buddies come to their defense and whip out their guns ( a real pissing contest ensues) with potentially deadly consequences. What if innocent bystanders are injured or killed?

[OdinsEye]

Not allowed to drink and carry.

[BlackJAC]

And you propose to enforce that how, exactly?

[HisXLNC]

What's to stop that from happening outside of a bar where alcohol and firearms are already available? What you've described should be a common event, given the availability of both alcohol and firearms in the US.

[justmeinAz]

Interesting story you've just made up. Now find a single incident of this ever happening anywhere in the country among people who were legally carrying, because I've certainly never seen this in the news.