U.S. Nuns Facing Sweeping Vatican Investigation

The New York Times:

The Vatican is quietly conducting two sweeping investigations of American nuns, a development that has startled and dismayed nuns who fear they are the targets of a doctrinal inquisition.

Read the whole story: The New York Times

Comments

[singermuse]

Oh my! We can't have uppity women, either in or out of "religious" life having minds and opinions and the ability to exercise critical thinking!
This seems to be just one more nail in the coffin.
Considering that we have an ultra conservative "pope" who wants to set back the church to pre-"vatican 2" it's not surprising.
Blind obedience, is just that: Blind, and leads no one anywhere but into a ditch.
Bless those courageous women who have had the temerity to serve God as they understand God, in spite of having to tow the line to a misogynistic organization, not remotely interested in the real needs of people and women included.

[Macready]

lt should be interesting to see how this develops . . suspect it will cause even more damage to the catholic church . .. . well it's their funeral . . . I won't weep

[clearwaterclearmind]

nuns are the only cool thing about catholicism IMO. they dedicate their lives to teaching and helping and have done far more good throughout history than any priest or cardinal making sure that money from the new world is going to line the halls of the vatican with gold. the vatican should focus their attention and prayers on keeping the starving nations of the world from learning about the staggering amount of wealth that is in one little-used passageway in their palaces.

vaguely related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXzubuENj

"you know how it is with theories - some days it's fine...
maybe one, two... three days... and then just when it looks
like you're ready for the publish...... whoosh! you need a new kitchen floor."

[blues101]

Nuns are cool now, since they're gotten into the outside real world and help real people of all backgrounds. But in the 60's they were a violent and sexually repressed group of women running the Catholic Schools - and the majority of boomers who were forced into catholic schools will verify - they beat the children day after day with the chalkboard sticks, pinched and slapped them, hit them with rulers and worse. They were sadists. Now that they're educated and given more freedom to help people, some of whom the church itself considers garbage - they are viewed as compassionate and do good work. The beatings stopped when wearing habits became optional and the "blended" into a community.

[clearwaterclearmind]

ug. i hope a return to that sort of nunnery is not the church's goal.sounds eerily similar to another large religion that prefers it's women covered and without rights. i guess at least nuns have a choice about their calling. if they know full well what they'r in for at signup, then i respect their commitment if nothing else, but i get the feeling uneducated and blindly devout is how the church wants them.

depressing stuff. i'm glad i didn't attend one of these 60's era schools.

[MikeRdg]

Oh, oh, someone saw" Doubt" with Meryl Streep

[fredgladys]

I really don't see the problem. We haven't had a good Inquisition for some time, so, time to get some practice in.

[Truelee]

Vatican's viewpoint: the nuns have been too successful at tending to the poor and sick that drove the priests to turn to child molestation--they have work to do anymore. If the nuns were made to stay in their place in the convents devoted to a life of God then the priests will have work and meaning again among the people. To put the nuns out of work is to put them back in the convents.

[John Horner]

Being a nun means being subservient to the male powers of the Catholic Church. Most nuns are wonderful people, and the world would be a better place if they were not second class non-citizens of their worlds. Set yourselves free of oppression nuns of the world!

[AbrahamSadegh]

What the Catholic Church in our country needs is a Declaration of Independence from Vatican. This unholy umbilical cord of submission to the authority of the Papacy should be severed once and for all so that adherents to Catholicism can break free of the straightjacket of obedience and be able to exercise God Almighty's greatest blessing upon humanity – the Freedom of Choice.

By the way, no one who has ever walked on this earth has been or will ever be infallible. Perfection is an eternal journey.

[levibatgirl]

F the pope.

[gcallaghan]

But, the nuns don't want to, therein lies the rub

[antaeus]

And? Did they think they were Unitarians?

American Catholics never cease to amaze. If you want to protest the actions of The Vatican, then become Protestants!

[jwcmass]

I think your (and the Vatican's) problem here is --what gives YOU the right to determine who belongs in or out of the Church --and how it should be constituted.

If you read your history, you will probably be amazed to learn that bishops were (in the early chuch) ELECTED by the faithful --and thus accountable to them. That included the Pope.

Given the recent behavior of the hierarchy, I'd say they have forfeited the right to govern the Church using the model of the Roman Empire (an abysmal model anyway). The results speak for themselves.

When Lord Acton, a faithful Catholic, and friend of Cardinal Newman, wrote: "All power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely" he was writing about Pope Pius IX, who WAS power-mad.

I would advise you to look at Jesus as a model for authority. He had no title, or fancy robes, or great power--rather the opposite. And he told his followers they must do the same.

Somewhere along the way, we went off the trail. (For example-- the term pontiff, one of the many titles for the pope, was once the title of the Roman Emperor.-- That SHOULD tell you something.)

Remember, Jesus was tempted with that kind of power--and turned it down.

It's a bad influence. And you may say that the pope no longer has any temporal power. But remember, it was NEVER surrerendered willingly. It had to be taken by force.

[Oldtt]

I question whether the electorate of earlier Popes differed much from the council of regional church nobles which elects them now. Certainly it did not represent the choices of illiterate European peasants. The Roman Catholic Church is simply the last vestige of the dismantled Roman Empire complete with a renamed pantheon of lesser gods. The church really can't modernize without vanishing altogether.

[Turtleposer]

As an ex-Catholic, but not a disgruntled ex-Catholic, I agree. True, it'd be nice if the Catholic Church could transform from within, but since it won't, those who disagree should leave. Going after devoted nuns is pretty bizarre, but if that's what the Vatican wants, so shall it be. It's run by the Vatican, whatever the Vatican says goes, so those who don't agree should go. Take a leap of faith, trust the Turtle, you will ask yourself why you didn't leave sooner.

[MikeRdg]

Some individuals have a right to be ‘disgruntled”, somehow the word disgruntled catholic, disgruntled Mormon, disgruntled liberal, disgruntled whatever, is a word that often discredit’s the individual who is objecting, or bring out serious issues. People who have been wounded, abused, experienced the callousness of behaviors which run in contradiction to professed belief as well as contrary to behaviors placed on their believing followers, have a right to their feelings and their feeling are understandable and justified -- wounded may be a better turn to use than disgruntled. You may not have left after being wounded.

[JackNasty]

Everybody loves an inquisition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM

How we doin', any converts today?
Not a one, nay, nay, nay!
We've flattened their fingers. We've branded their buns.
Nothing is working.
Send in the nuns!

[jwcmass]

touche

[lianmolive]

OT - why do Xians (not all) have a problem with the hijab but not the habits nun wears?

[cruzy]

At least in the U.S., most nuns no longer wear habits, and its been that way for many years. Also, not sure what you mean by "Xians?" Do you mean residents of the city of Xian in China? :)

Finally, I don't think most people care what other people choose to wear for religious, political or artistic reasons, so long as they are making the choice to wear it, and not being coerced into doing so.

[hellboundtrain]

A most amazing scene in Fellinni's movie "Roma" concerning a ecclesiastical fashion of nun and priestly garments is a must see as the nuns and priests parade down the catwal in the most bizarre and outrageous "fashions, " being viewed by the pope.

That movie is about the downfall of western civilization, but no mention is made of this until a few minutes AFTER the movie and credits stop.

[hellboundtrain]

BTW: Fellini made "Roma" in 1972.

[antaeus]

The habit is a medieval vestige that is only for women who have become nuns. Nuns might wear it in public, but its use is confined to women who voluntarily take orders.

The hijab freaks some people out because it appears in secular settings on "civilian" women, and its use is perceived as not always being 100% voluntary. It seems an encroachment of anachronistic religiosity intruding into the shared public space.

[chedet]

I blame it all on bigotry.

[marijam]

Leave our nuns alone!

[OliverTwist]

Here. Here.

Let the nuns lead.

By and large the nuns are righteous.

By and large the bishops and cardinals are wretched.

[historymatters]

Looks like the RC is following a playbook used by repressive regimes all over the world. When forced to play defense, blame the women and oppress them every chance you get.

[ignoranceequalsfear]

The RC church is arguably the most sexist mysoginistic, and inarguably the most patriarchal organization in the world.

The fact that religion is irrational and fear based notwithstanding, these women are getting too "uppity" for the men-in-power to handle.

Punish them, reign them in, and crush their spirit! That's the ticket!

Don't let the bas.tards grind you down, Sisters!

[pons1595]

As a former Catholic, educated all the way through college by nuns and priests, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. And they will "crush" these upstarts under their Italian heels. Nuns aren't "into" the "fraternal desires" of the priesthood. They will be unified and uniformed back into the 1950s, the Golden Age of Superstition.