MOUNTAIN OF DEBT: Rising debt may be next crisis

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TOM RAUM | 07/ 3/09 11:31 PM | AP

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The soaring national debt is recorded on the National Debt Clock in New York, Friday, July 3, 2009. Already complicating efforts by President Barack Obama and Congress to cope with the worst recession in decades, economists warn that the mountain of debt easily could become the next full-fledged economic crisis without firm action from Washington. (AP Photo/Yanina Manolova)

WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt.

The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolutionary War. Growing ever since, the debt stands today at a staggering $11.5 trillion _ equivalent to over $37,000 for each and every American. And it's expanding by over $1 trillion a year.

The mountain of debt easily could become the next full-fledged economic crisis without firm action from Washington, economists of all stripes warn.

"Unless we demonstrate a strong commitment to fiscal sustainability in the longer term, we will have neither financial stability nor healthy economic growth," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke recently told Congress.

Higher taxes, or reduced federal benefits and services _ or a combination of both _ may be the inevitable consequences.

The debt is complicating efforts by President Barack Obama and Congress to cope with the worst recession in decades as stimulus and bailout spending combine with lower tax revenues to widen the gap.

Interest payments on the debt alone cost $452 billion last year _ the largest federal spending category after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense. It's quickly crowding out all other government spending. And the Treasury is finding it harder to find new lenders.

The United States went into the red the first time in 1790 when it assumed $75 million in the war debts of the Continental Congress.

Story continues below

Alexander Hamilton, the first treasury secretary, said, "A national debt, if not excessive, will be to us a national blessing."

Some blessing.

Since then, the nation has only been free of debt once, in 1834-1835.

The national debt has expanded during times of war and usually contracted in times of peace, while staying on a generally upward trajectory. Over the past several decades, it has climbed sharply _ except for a respite from 1998 to 2000, when there were annual budget surpluses, reflecting in large part what turned out to be an overheated economy.

The debt soared with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and economic stimulus spending under President George W. Bush and now Obama.

The odometer-style "debt clock" near Times Square _ put in place in 1989 when the debt was a mere $2.7 trillion _ ran out of numbers and had to be shut down when the debt surged past $10 trillion in 2008.

The clock has since been refurbished so higher numbers fit. There are several debt clocks on Web sites maintained by public interest groups that let you watch hundreds, thousands, millions zip by in a matter of seconds.

The debt gap is "something that keeps me awake at night," Obama says.

He pledged to cut the budget "deficit" roughly in half by the end of his first term. But "deficit" just means the difference between government receipts and spending in a single budget year.

This year's deficit is now estimated at about $1.85 trillion.

Deficits don't reflect holdover indebtedness from previous years. Some spending items _ such as emergency appropriations bills and receipts in the Social Security program _ aren't included, either, although they are part of the national debt.

The national debt is a broader, and more telling, way to look at the government's balance sheets than glancing at deficits.

According to the Treasury Department, which updates the number "to the penny" every few days, the national debt was $11,518,472,742,288 on Wednesday.

The overall debt is now slightly over 80 percent of the annual output of the entire U.S. economy, as measured by the gross domestic product.

By historical standards, it's not proportionately as high as during World War II, when it briefly rose to 120 percent of GDP. But it's still a huge liability.

Also, the United States is not the only nation struggling under a huge national debt. Among major countries, Japan, Italy, India, France, Germany and Canada have comparable debts as percentages of their GDPs.

Where does the government borrow all this money from?

The debt is largely financed by the sale of Treasury bonds and bills. Even today, amid global economic turmoil, those still are seen as one of the world's safest investments.

That's one of the rare upsides of U.S. government borrowing.

Treasury securities are suitable for individual investors and popular with other countries, especially China, Japan and the Persian Gulf oil exporters, the three top foreign holders of U.S. debt.

But as the U.S. spends trillions to stabilize the recession-wracked economy, helping to force down the value of the dollar, the securities become less attractive as investments. Some major foreign lenders are already paring back on their purchases of U.S. bonds and other securities.

And if major holders of U.S. debt were to flee, it would send shock waves through the global economy _ and sharply force up U.S. interest rates.

As time goes by, demographics suggest things will get worse before they get better, even after the recession ends, as more baby boomers retire and begin collecting Social Security and Medicare benefits.

While the president remains personally popular, polls show there is rising public concern over his handling of the economy and the government's mushrooming debt _ and what it might mean for future generations.

If things can't be turned around, including establishing a more efficient health care system, "We are on an utterly unsustainable fiscal course," said the White House budget director, Peter Orszag.

Some budget-restraint activists claim even the debt understates the nation's true liabilities.

The Peter G. Peterson Foundation, established by a former commerce secretary and investment banker, argues that the $11.4 trillion debt figures does not take into account roughly $45 trillion in unlisted liabilities and unfunded retirement and health care commitments.

That would put the nation's full obligations at $56 trillion, or roughly $184,000 per American, according to this calculation.

___

On the Net:

Treasury Department "to the penny" national debt breakdown: http://tinyurl.com/yrxrsh

Peter G. Peterson Foundation independent assessment of the national debt: http://www.pgpf.org/

"Deficits do Matter" debt clock: http://tinyurl.com/l6mvjb

WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt. The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolu...
WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt. The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolu...
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- mbaty I'm a Fan of mbaty 23 fans permalink

This article is so disingenuous! First of all, we have had periods of time in our history with no national debt--and I'll give you a hint, it was before the Federal Reserve. Even the name of this article is silly, "rising debt may be next crisis." Way to state the obvious--except most of that debt isn't even real, and it's even less real considering that our money is only backed by the amount of money in the system, which is always loaned at interest to our Federal government.
Beyond that, it has become quite lucrative to charge consumers every possible fee that can be imagined--from more than doubling Cc minimum payments to interest to bank overlimit fees and transaction charges. And we have tried to play along, but it has become so absurd that it's obvious none of it is real in any kind of tangible sense. "Rising debt" isn't a coming crisis, it's the name of the game. How about a currency that is based on actual usable resources? How about an economy that seeks to lift everyone up and with it their standard of living? How about a system of infrastructure that benefits us now and all those that come after us? It's time for a new game.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 07/04/2009
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"MANUFACTURED INSIDER TRADING BETS" PAID OFF for G0LDMAN and the Rest!

Sub-prime = small or zero down loan

Even 10 to 20% down loans = Negative territory after a 40% to 60% decline in most markets.

Wall Street = NO care where the mortgages for their derivatives came from

Wall Street = needed "SURE FAIL with TRICKS and TRAPS" Mortgage FODDER to make into Sure Fail Derivatives

Banks + Hedge Funds = Placed Massive Casino Bets the Mortgage Derivatives would FAIL

Banks + Hedge Funds = Sat back and collected on their Manufactured Insider Trading Bets!

Finale = everything imploded in on Banks and A1G and then Main Street footed the $14 Trillion bill

Wall Street Greed and Corruption = Rewarded By Geithner/Paulson/Summers + Obama/Emanuel

Wall Street GAMED the Failure of America's Housing!

This is a PURE and SIMPLE FELONY CHARGE!
___________________________________________

It was a relatively simple scheme with many accomplices along the way.

1. Mortgage servicing subsidiaries of i-banks or contract servicers utilized MORTGAGE SERVICING FRAUD to manufacture bogus defaults.

2. I-banks targeted certain mortgage REITs for servicing fraud which were then listed in ABX series of 20 REITs which changed every 6 months.

3. Then their traders using this insider information shorted those REITs with Credit Default Swap bets on ABX Index.

4. Despite toothless FTC settlements Mortgage Servicing Fraud goes on because Wall St. makes more money through dishonest servicers manufacturing mortgage defaults and foreclosures than it would otherwise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 07/04/2009
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This is how they gamed the system and rigged the bets. Mortgage Servicing Fraud is epidemic and literally steals homes often from people who have made ALL their mortgage payments on time.

There were no firewalls between subsidiary servicers and Wall st. trading desks. You can bank on this going down as the largest insider trading scheme in all history.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0323014.shtm FTC v. Fairbanks/SelectPortfolioServicing
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0623031/index.shtm FTC v. EMC/Bear Stearns

These 2 settlements alone involved more than 366,000 servicing fraud victims.

For more information Google "Mortgage Servicing Fraud" or research origin of ABX Index and the cabal behind it.

When will this massive stealing Main Street Wealth and and skimming of profits END?

This is a PURE and SIMPLE FELONY CHARGE!

When will Goldman, i-banks, and others be brought to justice?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 07/04/2009
- joebhed I'm a Fan of joebhed 47 fans permalink
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Happy Independence Day to our country.
Tragically, we may be wasting the blood of the brave Colonists who refused the British laws written for the the private Bank of England, refusing to allow the Colonies to print their own monies as legal tender?
We fought for and won the sovereign right to create our OWN legal tender money.
Debt-free at issue.
What happened to the spoils of victory?
Why aren't we talking about that?

The Fed is another private money system, banking system and Central Bank of the US, the mirror image of its Bank of England counterparty.
The private bankers, and not the people, create ALL the nation's money as a debt.
Which, only if you think about it, explains why there is a mountain of debt, and not a mountain of equity.
Given this mountain of debt, without the necessary equity in the system, it is questionable as to why we allow the Fed to create Trillions in new debts, without any public oversight.
If the problem is too much debt, then how can lots more debt be the solution?

It is the failure of the debt-money system that threatens our economic integrity, and we need to begin to develop an exit strategy out of the debt-money system, and into a system of Treasury-issue debt-free money.
Can the debt-money system actually be insolvent?
Read "How Debt Money Goes Broke".

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2005/1212b.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 07/04/2009
- dogisgreat I'm a Fan of dogisgreat 11 fans permalink
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Absolutely on the mark.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 07/05/2009
- Enid I'm a Fan of Enid 9 fans permalink

We are now buying our own debt.
Treasury notes purchased buy Federal Bank.
Holding up the house of cards.
Foreigners are now not buying.
Chines government orders a stop by their banks way back with the last year of Bush.
This was reported in the Chinese press but not in US.

56 Trillion dollars is the number at the bottom of the article.
Dollar worth two cents max.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 07/04/2009

FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE DAY - STARVE THE BEAST

We're udnergoing a delveraging process. Expect the DJIA to bottom at 5000 or lower.

Americans are starting to come to their senses. The savings rate reached 6.9% last month,
the highest level in 15 years. This brought the level up to the long-term average. As usual,
the pundits on CNBC have concluded that now that we've reached the average, everything is
roses and the consumer can resume their free spending ways and save our economy. These fools
have no concept of history, averages or cycles. The savings rate has been in a downward
spiral for 30 years. Consumers have lost $14 trillion of net worth and 5,000 per day turn
65. Most people have miniscule retirement savings and 14.7 million are unemployed. The
savings rate will go up for the next two decades as people must save.

hat tip to: http://iamned.blogspot.com 4 the good articles

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 07/04/2009
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

You can bet on it that they (the government) is figuring out a way to rob your of your savings.
Nothing so far has been save from our government. One way or another the little man always loses. Declaration of Independence also states that we, the people, have a right to take down our government if we are dissatisfied. But we can't even agree on why!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 07/04/2009
- marijam I'm a Fan of marijam 49 fans permalink
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Don't forget all those people who are in contract jobs with no real future. The problems with our economy are systemic and aren't going to go away any time soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:43 PM on 07/04/2009
- LunaPark I'm a Fan of LunaPark 18 fans permalink
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You're right. The contraction and savings are needed. True economic growth comes from savings. Unfortunately, the current Keynesian economic school of thought that dominates the American politic punishes people who save. A 1999 dollar saved has already lost 20% of its value (Bureau of Labor Statistics). The poor, the working class, and the elderly on a fixed income will suffer the most.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 07/04/2009
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Right now I am just trying to think of ways to save my home. I don't know how immoral this is, and I hope it is not because I consider myself to be a good human being. But I am sure there are people out there who would be willing to "make arrangements" that would benefit both parties. Maybe if someone who had to suffer an amputation but has been blessed with financial security would be willing to trade resources with someone who is willing to donate just one of his arms or legs (below knee only) to save his home. I heard it may be illegal to sell organs, but if there is a legal way to coordinate an exchange I would be very willing. I have always been an athlete and make sure I am in top physical condition. I have no diseases and have a clean family history of cancers and breathing (lung) problems. I eat healthy foods, rarely eat fast food, and avoid high fructose corn syrup and trans fats whenever possible. If you do find this offensive, please accept my apology and do not judge me to quickly. I am a Christian and loyal American. I pay my taxes and do not cheat or steal. I am not begging for a free ride and am too proud to accept any hand-outs. I have taken great care of my body and feel I have the right to decide what I want to do with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 07/04/2009
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There were once 10 friends from high school that got together to eat dinner. When the bill came one of the friends said lets pay for it like we pay for taxes. So the one with the largest income paid 40% of the bill. The next two paid another 30% and finally the next three paid 30%. The final four did not have to pay. After doing this for a year the restaraunt decided to give them a rebate on the bill. The friends decided to do it like taxes once more. The firs tfour that paid nothing got 25% even though they never paid. The next three split got 25% and the next two got 25% and the man who paid the most got back 25%. When they all looked at what they got they realized the man who paid the most got back more money. This made them mad and after much heated debate they beat up the first man and took his money. The next day they showed up for dinner again all but the man they beat up. After eating they got the check and saw they did not have the money to pay.
This is what will happen to our rich and business if we keep the current path with today’s global economy. Beat them up enough and they will leave and we will not be able to pay the bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 07/04/2009
- 3dtrix I'm a Fan of 3dtrix 206 fans permalink

Interesting story - in that it doesn't make any sense and doesn't relate to the current situation, domestically or internationally. Keep working on it, though - you might be able to pitch it as a reality show on FOX...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 07/04/2009

That won't flush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 07/04/2009
- quiviran I'm a Fan of quiviran 26 fans permalink

Faulty. The rich guy got his money from the labors of the other nine. If he leaves, the nine workers still have their ability to labor, but without the sponge at the top.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 PM on 07/04/2009

Your problem is that you seem to be very jealous of the sponge.......maybe you need to work harder!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 AM on 07/05/2009
- boomer1949 I'm a Fan of boomer1949 44 fans permalink
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PS...my former husband makes 3 times as much as I, owns a home, takes our children & grandchildren on vacation to Hilton Head Island every year (sometimes twice), and still can afford to contribute to a 401K. I, on the other hand and a stay-at-home Mom for years...will be filing bankruptcy the week of 13 July 2009. What is wrong with this picture?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 07/04/2009
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

Welcome to the USA, where people have been brainwashed for decades, made believe that this is the land of opportunity, etc. Well, it may have been at one time but those time are long gone.
The USA, where the middle class is overtaxed, the rich don't have to pay, same with the laws,
is indeed Friedman's Capitalistic Utopia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 07/04/2009

Should have married a better man!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 AM on 07/05/2009
- boomer1949 I'm a Fan of boomer1949 44 fans permalink
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I am divorced (14 years), I am 60, I earn >$31,000/year after taxes, I must file Ch. 7 by the end of July in order to survive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 07/04/2009
- lincheryl I'm a Fan of lincheryl 6 fans permalink

There are different kinds of spending.

When spending on the stimulus, it is like performing the maintenance on your car; you might have to charge it because you don't have the cash, but you know if you don't do it, you will pay more later when the engine blows up or the transmission goes out.

Spending on an unnecessary war and tax cuts for the rich is like spending on shiny wheels and over-the-top sound systems in the car--just an ego, selfish way to spend.

I am glad we have someone who is spending for responsible things and not playing cowboy with our money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 07/04/2009

We're still at war....and spending for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 07/04/2009
- MED1025 I'm a Fan of MED1025 14 fans permalink
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Numbers are being thrown around, but the number to look at is the debt as a percentage of the GNP. It will give you a new perspective.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 07/04/2009
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It will only give you perspective if you also look into personal and business debt (i.e.: How much is America as a whole on the hook for, and how much is the share for each individual person?). The answer might frighten you, because it's a lot higher (more than double) than it has ever been in the history of America, not only in real terms, but as a percentage of the GNP. Sorry, but you folks are in trouble.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 07/04/2009
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

don't blame the people. I remember when the government passed a law to put equity in the house and let you borrow against it. Then came the credit cards, mailboxes were
loaded with taunting offers. Who do you think pushed all of this credit now debt.
Don't let them bamboozle you, just follow the money. Someone got very rich.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 07/04/2009
- Fabini I'm a Fan of Fabini 46 fans permalink
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Another way to look at the number of dollars the Government owes is as an investment. We are saying, and the rest of the world accepts this, that each and every American is worth $37,000.

What would it say to the world if we thought we were only worth $14 each? Other nations buy our bonds as a good investment because they believe we are good for it. That's a plus on the world stage.

So let's show them we are good for it. Let's work together to make this nation a world leader in agriculture, manufacturing, medical care, education, engineering, and humanitarian aid.

It's not the national debt. It's the National Investment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 07/04/2009
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Oh my...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 07/04/2009

Yeah....oh my is right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 07/04/2009

Wow can I have whatever you are taking? Economics and basic finance not your best subject, huh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 07/04/2009
- Fabini I'm a Fan of Fabini 46 fans permalink
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Oh you glass-half-empty people have to buy the next round. And what's the matter with a degree in Art History anyway?! :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 07/04/2009
- bluevase I'm a Fan of bluevase 9 fans permalink

The rest of the world is beginning to think Americans are NOT worth $37,000 each

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 07/04/2009
- dogisgreat I'm a Fan of dogisgreat 11 fans permalink
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Or beginning to realize that $37,000 isn't worth $37,000 anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/05/2009
- quiviran I'm a Fan of quiviran 26 fans permalink

Then lets have everybody be worth $184,000. Now all future American Gov't obligations are fully funded. We can relax now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 07/04/2009
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Sorry dude,but the 'investment' has already been spent, on consumer goods, strip malls, and WAAAY too many McMansions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 07/04/2009
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According to Rolling Stone's article on Goldman Sacks, the next bubble is going to be Cap and Trade.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 07/04/2009

Goldman Sachs preys on illiquid markets. Just as MS/GS stored oil offshore as they pushed up energy prices, GS will figure out a way to bankrupt our electrical and energy intensive industries. Remember Goldman Sachs is in the business of owning insider information, exploiting loopholes and enriching their partners to the detriment of the better good. they create nothing but destroy everything in the need for greed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 07/04/2009

GS...Greed and Stupidity

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 07/04/2009
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

more like CAP AND TAX.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 07/04/2009
- dogisgreat I'm a Fan of dogisgreat 11 fans permalink
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According to Warren Buffet, the next bubble is government securities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 07/05/2009
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I would like any US citizen to explain to me just how the US can pay off its national debt under the monetary system that is in place?
When the US taxpayer decides to "wake up" and do a little research, they will find the root cause of every crisis that you are encountering.
Some high lights:
American Revolutionary W.a.r.
Andrew Jackson, National Debt
Abraham Lincoln; Greenback
Federal Reserve Act 1913
Gold Confiscation Act 1933
Bretton Woods System, 1944
JFK Jun 4, 1963
Research these and find the "common denominator".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 07/04/2009
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America has no intention of paying off its debt in real wealth. Ever. They may inflate out of it and repay borrowed wealth (real goods and services) with devalued cash, or they may actually push it to a crisis point until they are forced to simply default. Either way, it's time the rest of us come to understand that America is the mooching thirty year old bachelor younger brother who lives in the basement for free, eats our food, drives around in a Corvette, and stays out all night at clubs three or four times a week picking up women because, hey, he only works when he feels like it... while we continue to work long days to put food on the table for our family and for our moocher brother in the hope that one day he'll surely get a real job and repay us for all we've done. Time to cut them loose, I'm afraid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 07/04/2009
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The POINT is if we switch to a Credit Based instead of a DEBT BASED Federal Reserve Economy the government can simply over time gradually spend Credit into the Economy backed by the Government like T-Bills to pay down our debts!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 07/04/2009

why did you stop at 1963 the list gets faster and longer after 1963. The momentum is crushing; the game gets bigger and better; the crimes larger and deeper and the whole mess gets more insidious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 07/04/2009
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The liberals never learn from history. Carter did this type of borrowing and spending and the result was high taxes, high unemployment, and high interest. The German Republic in the 1920's did this type of spending and the result was a collapse of the economy and the government and Hitler coming to power.
Why is it Liberals are outraged of a deficit for 8 years of Bush at 1.2 Trillion but are OK with Obama creating 1.45 trilion debt this year and projected over a trillion next year.
Why are the liberals so outraged at the loss of their retirement plans but it is OK for Obama to break the law to take the Indiana State Pension fund.
All this seems to be a double standard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 07/04/2009
- Fabini I'm a Fan of Fabini 46 fans permalink
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There are other examples, the Indian Raj of the 18 century and the Chinese Hi Ping dynasty. Their populations flourished under egalitarian liberalism until plunderers swooped in to take away the gains.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 07/04/2009
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Because Bush wasted the money in Iraq, making his friends in the military industrial complex even wealthier and started the transfer of American Taxpayer's remaining wealth directly to the banks.

The Democrats prefer deficit spending to promote domestic and social programs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 07/04/2009

for their friends in businesses allied with their causes. Same rip-off different recipients (at least in some cases..mostly it's the same outfits benefiting).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 07/04/2009
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

I am a DEM but I believe that both parties are corrupt to the core. We need a viable 3rd
party. Imagine the shock if we vote for 3rd party and all incumbents would lose their job?
Maybe they would learn to listen to the people who put them in office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 07/04/2009
- bobo5 I'm a Fan of bobo5 21 fans permalink

Carter was responsible. It was under Reagan that debt exploded.

The national debt reduced from a high after WWII through the Carter presidency as a percentage of GDP.

That's a fact. You so called "conservatives", actually idiots won't accept truth so you resort to posting fiction because you cannot accept the error of your ways.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 07/04/2009
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