MOUNTAIN OF DEBT: Rising debt may be next crisis

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TOM RAUM | 07/ 3/09 11:31 PM | AP

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The soaring national debt is recorded on the National Debt Clock in New York, Friday, July 3, 2009. Already complicating efforts by President Barack Obama and Congress to cope with the worst recession in decades, economists warn that the mountain of debt easily could become the next full-fledged economic crisis without firm action from Washington. (AP Photo/Yanina Manolova)

WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt.

The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolutionary War. Growing ever since, the debt stands today at a staggering $11.5 trillion _ equivalent to over $37,000 for each and every American. And it's expanding by over $1 trillion a year.

The mountain of debt easily could become the next full-fledged economic crisis without firm action from Washington, economists of all stripes warn.

"Unless we demonstrate a strong commitment to fiscal sustainability in the longer term, we will have neither financial stability nor healthy economic growth," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke recently told Congress.

Higher taxes, or reduced federal benefits and services _ or a combination of both _ may be the inevitable consequences.

The debt is complicating efforts by President Barack Obama and Congress to cope with the worst recession in decades as stimulus and bailout spending combine with lower tax revenues to widen the gap.

Interest payments on the debt alone cost $452 billion last year _ the largest federal spending category after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense. It's quickly crowding out all other government spending. And the Treasury is finding it harder to find new lenders.

The United States went into the red the first time in 1790 when it assumed $75 million in the war debts of the Continental Congress.

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Alexander Hamilton, the first treasury secretary, said, "A national debt, if not excessive, will be to us a national blessing."

Some blessing.

Since then, the nation has only been free of debt once, in 1834-1835.

The national debt has expanded during times of war and usually contracted in times of peace, while staying on a generally upward trajectory. Over the past several decades, it has climbed sharply _ except for a respite from 1998 to 2000, when there were annual budget surpluses, reflecting in large part what turned out to be an overheated economy.

The debt soared with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and economic stimulus spending under President George W. Bush and now Obama.

The odometer-style "debt clock" near Times Square _ put in place in 1989 when the debt was a mere $2.7 trillion _ ran out of numbers and had to be shut down when the debt surged past $10 trillion in 2008.

The clock has since been refurbished so higher numbers fit. There are several debt clocks on Web sites maintained by public interest groups that let you watch hundreds, thousands, millions zip by in a matter of seconds.

The debt gap is "something that keeps me awake at night," Obama says.

He pledged to cut the budget "deficit" roughly in half by the end of his first term. But "deficit" just means the difference between government receipts and spending in a single budget year.

This year's deficit is now estimated at about $1.85 trillion.

Deficits don't reflect holdover indebtedness from previous years. Some spending items _ such as emergency appropriations bills and receipts in the Social Security program _ aren't included, either, although they are part of the national debt.

The national debt is a broader, and more telling, way to look at the government's balance sheets than glancing at deficits.

According to the Treasury Department, which updates the number "to the penny" every few days, the national debt was $11,518,472,742,288 on Wednesday.

The overall debt is now slightly over 80 percent of the annual output of the entire U.S. economy, as measured by the gross domestic product.

By historical standards, it's not proportionately as high as during World War II, when it briefly rose to 120 percent of GDP. But it's still a huge liability.

Also, the United States is not the only nation struggling under a huge national debt. Among major countries, Japan, Italy, India, France, Germany and Canada have comparable debts as percentages of their GDPs.

Where does the government borrow all this money from?

The debt is largely financed by the sale of Treasury bonds and bills. Even today, amid global economic turmoil, those still are seen as one of the world's safest investments.

That's one of the rare upsides of U.S. government borrowing.

Treasury securities are suitable for individual investors and popular with other countries, especially China, Japan and the Persian Gulf oil exporters, the three top foreign holders of U.S. debt.

But as the U.S. spends trillions to stabilize the recession-wracked economy, helping to force down the value of the dollar, the securities become less attractive as investments. Some major foreign lenders are already paring back on their purchases of U.S. bonds and other securities.

And if major holders of U.S. debt were to flee, it would send shock waves through the global economy _ and sharply force up U.S. interest rates.

As time goes by, demographics suggest things will get worse before they get better, even after the recession ends, as more baby boomers retire and begin collecting Social Security and Medicare benefits.

While the president remains personally popular, polls show there is rising public concern over his handling of the economy and the government's mushrooming debt _ and what it might mean for future generations.

If things can't be turned around, including establishing a more efficient health care system, "We are on an utterly unsustainable fiscal course," said the White House budget director, Peter Orszag.

Some budget-restraint activists claim even the debt understates the nation's true liabilities.

The Peter G. Peterson Foundation, established by a former commerce secretary and investment banker, argues that the $11.4 trillion debt figures does not take into account roughly $45 trillion in unlisted liabilities and unfunded retirement and health care commitments.

That would put the nation's full obligations at $56 trillion, or roughly $184,000 per American, according to this calculation.

___

On the Net:

Treasury Department "to the penny" national debt breakdown: http://tinyurl.com/yrxrsh

Peter G. Peterson Foundation independent assessment of the national debt: http://www.pgpf.org/

"Deficits do Matter" debt clock: http://tinyurl.com/l6mvjb

WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt. The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolu...
WASHINGTON — The Founding Fathers left one legacy not celebrated on Independence Day but which affects us all. It's the national debt. The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolu...
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We need a Bank Day

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 07/04/2009
- lastams I'm a Fan of lastams 55 fans permalink

At some point, when Goldman Sachs and the other casino operators have sucked the
last penny out of the middle class, when their so-called "jobless
recovery" ends and there is no more real value to leverage into
inflated economic balloons and manufactured wealth, then the whole
giant house of cards will collapse, taking with it what remains of the
American, and probably the World, economy.

We simply cannot spend money on stimulus while at the same time pumping
up a system that is basically anti-stimulus,
a system based on inflated financial engineering instead of
infrastructure, and expect it to work.
We'll be left with a mountain of debt and very little to show for it.
Unless of course one is working for one of the big investment banks;
word is, they expect to have a record year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 07/04/2009

and very little to show for it....yup.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 07/04/2009
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Ok Folks. Reality check. During WWII we spent about 125% of GDP on a war. Things we were building were being blown up in Asia, Europe and Africa. Ships we were building got sunk. Thousands of Americans gave there lives and limbs. So. When we are at the point of spending 125% of GDP to crawl out of this Gop/Wall Street hole, let me know. Other then that, put a sock in this Gop bait and switch argument.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 07/04/2009
- wadenelson1 I'm a Fan of wadenelson1 245 fans permalink
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You reveal the fallacy of your own argument. "Things we were building were being blown up, ...sunk"

We are no longer building things. We outsourced that to China, Mexico, ...

We are merely selling each other espressos and auto insurance. We have a failing "service" economy.

When "the war" is over there won't be billions of dollars in savings bonds that returning GI's can use to buy cars, homes, and refrigerators.

At least PART of the reason Cheney/Buscho wanted to get us into these wars was to boost the economy. 50,000 Blackwater contractors making $200g's per year really DO add to the economy, not to mention defense contractors and soldiers.

This isn't a GOP argument. Anyone with any economics knowledge AT ALL knows we're in deep doo doo.

At the end of WWII the US Army had to DESTROY thousands of bulldozers, trucks, etc. Caterpillar had sold them to them at the "lowest possible price" but only with the guarantee that they wouldn't sold as surplus and used to destroy Caterpillar's future sales, AFTER the war. So Cat got to sell TWICE as many bulldozers.

We need to destroy our highways and build light rail. We need to destroy coal fired power plants and build solar and wind power. We need to cover the Mojave desert with solar cells. Every house in America needs a solar system on the roof.

Destruction is GOOD!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 07/04/2009
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On What Planet? We have the highest GDP on THIS planet. We have one of the higher standards of living. Please don't compare our standard of living to China or India; they have their own problems. Sorry, War and Destruction is not good. Nice Try.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 07/04/2009

While your "to-do list" is ok I don't think Destroy is the right word...add to and replace are better choices.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 07/04/2009
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During WWII the government took 100% of everything you made over 25,000. That still did not pay the debt. Would you like the government to take everything you make over 60,000 today. That is where we are going.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 07/04/2009
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Your facts are incorrect.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 07/04/2009
- Enid I'm a Fan of Enid 9 fans permalink

War reparations where payed after the war. A very nice boost too treasury of Britain and US..
America first nation too make money in war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 07/04/2009
- Fabini I'm a Fan of Fabini 46 fans permalink
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There is truth in most of what everyone has said here. But these are different times. It's true, we are a service economy now and guess what? Other countries don't really need our services. They can manage and administer themselves, thank you very much.

Iraq and Afghanistan are not going to pay us to rebuild them. They won't even pay the interest on loans. It's a different time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 07/04/2009

fallacious argument.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 07/04/2009
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 54 fans permalink
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This is the same thing that the Republican talking heads (in the newspapers of the day) said about the debt in 1937 as they pushed FDR to cut back on stimulating the economy. FDR did and it nearly pushed the country back into another recession. Recovery stalled and if it hadn't been for the manufacturing boom that went with WW-II a 2nd dip into recession and maybe even depression would have occurred. Take a look at the numbers from the 1930s and it's obvious. Republicans will again push for more restraint but they cannot be listened to. It will be much easier to recover from the debt once the economy is growing again. That is the time to worry about the debt and start to fiscally restrain our spending. Not when we are still recovering from the Reagan/Bush disaster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 07/04/2009
- hidflect I'm a Fan of hidflect 7 fans permalink
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Agreed...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 07/04/2009
- iblogleft I'm a Fan of iblogleft 88 fans permalink
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Its almost funny, you could put the two situations next too each other, and it looks like we are trying to repeat the mistakes we made before. Its nuts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 07/04/2009
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Roosevelts spending can be seen as extending the depression a decade. During his time in office and before WWII the unemployment never got better than 15% and as high as 20%. His massive government spending was seen as not helping but extending the depression. Government spending never stops a recession because the government does not create wealth and the spending they do just takes away from the GDP and the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 07/04/2009
- kesmarn I'm a Fan of kesmarn 76 fans permalink

I suggest you talk with a few seniors who actually lived through the Depression. They have an entirely different impression of FDR and his spending than you do. They don't feel that his government spending "took away from the people." Quite the opposite. The WPA projects in the area in which I live included a library, an aquarium and several metro parks, complete with ponds and trails. They're still in use decades later and during the 30s the jobs these projects provided were crucial to the survival of this part of the state. FDR is still a hero to many...especially people who personally remember him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 07/04/2009
- bobo5 I'm a Fan of bobo5 19 fans permalink

Without Roosevelt's foresight we would not have had the energy infrastructure necessary to be the Arsenal of Democracy.

How would they manufacture aircraft in Los Angeles without Hoover Dam?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 07/04/2009
- 3dtrix I'm a Fan of 3dtrix 194 fans permalink

"Can be seen"? By whom - supply-side and trickle-down revisionist economic historians? Your patter is merely worn-out cant and failed dogma - government readily and often DOES create wealth - funding the research that resulted in the creation of the internet and the resultant HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in private wealth created thereafter, for an immediate (and present) example. Or the construction of the Interstate Highway system, for another - the government made significant investment and TRILLIONS in private wealth were thereby created. But don't worry - I've tracked you and yours long enough to know you'll NEVER admit to being mistaken. Never. I don't take it personally any more, I just keep pushing back and bearing witness...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 07/04/2009
- iblogleft I'm a Fan of iblogleft 88 fans permalink
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The sky can be seen as black if you spend enough money convincing people of it, but it does not make it so.

Stop watch fox for 2 weeks, go watch and read some other news sources, gather some information from all over the place and see if you come to the same conclusions. At least then some of us will have an inkling of respect for your opinions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 07/04/2009
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Reagan disaster. Oh I guess the 20 million jobs created by his policies can be seen as a disaster for Liberals. Or was it the greatest expansion of our economy during peacetime that was a disaster. Maybe it was the demise of the old Soviet Union you did not like. Or maybe it was a President that believed in the greatness of the American People and America not a President that believes in the greatness of the government and how terrible America is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 07/04/2009
- Enid I'm a Fan of Enid 9 fans permalink

Regan's soul believe or fear was Communism.
He spent us into prosperity of cold war fear.
Defence boomed money everywhere.
Regan did not win cold war. Russians just ran out of money first.
20Million jobs, bad jobs put in bad jobs come out.
Regan and his Afghan, Soviet and South American meddling cost lives, Huge money on undercover operations. Sinister believes in a none enemy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 07/04/2009
- 3dtrix I'm a Fan of 3dtrix 194 fans permalink

So it's a religious issue for you - why didn't you say that up front? Are the 100-plus Reagan administration officials CONVICTED of felonies rough equivalents of cherubim and seraphim?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 07/04/2009
- Candw1 I'm a Fan of Candw1 12 fans permalink
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The federal government is no different than the people of this country spending money we do not have.

Everyone in this country would like to own a home...it's the American dream. But the truth is that some people just can not afford to buy a home. But it did not stop them. If you don't have to prove income, put any money down (have any skin in the game) low interest at the time (tomorrow never comes) then it resets....what did people expect?
Buying a home and maintaining it is an expensive proposition. Easy credit has been the ruin of the country. Living off credit cards like drunken sailors. Buying stuff they did not need just to keep up appearances. A lot of folks in California bought homes they could not afford thinking they could live in them for 3-5 years and then sell them at a profit before they had to start paying the piper. Wrong!
What in the hell where people thinking ....they made 60k a year and were buying homes that cost 350k across the county. Everyone wants to blame someone else for their problems. Nobody wants to take any responsibility for the debt that they accumulated needlessly. Some of these people with massive credit card debts need to look no farther that the closest mirror to find the real person responsible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 07/04/2009
- gakabani I'm a Fan of gakabani 20 fans permalink
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But that us only part of the problem, personal debt is an issue but what wall street has pulled on us is beyond imagination. They are the enablers of this crisis along with a mediocre president that only knew how to kill and lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 07/04/2009
- Candw1 I'm a Fan of Candw1 12 fans permalink
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Agreed.......but personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past in this country. Bush was elected....twice...OK first time..but 2 times.....people closed their eyes to what was really going on...again going back to personal responsibility. We all still have responsibility in this administration as well......I voted for Obama ......but we have to keep our eyes wide open this time.
I am Democrat but I do not believe that it is the responsibility of the government to take care of me nor solve all my problems...I believe there are too many social programs in this country.....we can not become a nation that expects to be bailed out and supported by the government. Welfare was supposed to be a temporary help to people, now it has become a life long career for some people.
The enablers are there because we allow it and it's time to stop taking on more than we as families can take of ourselves, living within our means should be the same for the people of the is country and the federal government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 07/04/2009
- lastams I'm a Fan of lastams 55 fans permalink

There is debt and there is debt.
It is one thing to spend money on stimulus with an expected return, it is quite another
to bail out huge investment banks so they can continue to suck the dwindling assets of the middle class into leveraged gambling.
In the past decade, the top one percent of Americans have increased their share of the economic pie from around 11 percent to 22 percent.
Simply put, the middle class no longer has the purchasing power to stimulate growth;
We've basically borrowed our lifestyle and have maintained the illusion of prosperity on a mountain of debt, but the model cannot sustain itself forever.
It is not so much that debt that is the problem, but the mindset that sells debt as an asset. The idea that "wealth" can be manufactured though financial engineering rather than sound financial principals, and investments can be leveraged out of thin air.
Debt as investment is one thing. Debt as leverage is quite another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 07/04/2009
- Fabini I'm a Fan of Fabini 46 fans permalink
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I am watching three different family friends of mine closely in this difficult economic time. The difference between these families is education and income. They range low-low / middle - middle / high - high.

Each is struggling financially and personally. Each is effecting personal responsibility as well as they can. None have lived beyond their means. All believe in this country and are politically middle-of-the-road.

My point is this, personal responsibility is not enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/04/2009
- E4B32787 I'm a Fan of E4B32787 10 fans permalink

"Some major foreign lenders are already paring back on their purchases of U.S. bonds and other securities."

However, a domestic lender seems to have emerged to fill in the gap. The Federal Reserve apparantly through a policy of "quantitative easing" has stepped in to buy treasuries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5379285/China-warns-Federal-Reserve-over-printing-money.html
"China has warned a top member of the US Federal Reserve that it is increasingly disturbed by the Fed's direct purchase of US Treasury bonds. "

This is looking less and less like borrowing and more like simple printing of money, albeit electronically. We've been borrowing as a society for years now to mask that we consume more than we make. This is looking like the last gasps of the borrower of last resort.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 07/04/2009
- Peabodies I'm a Fan of Peabodies 21 fans permalink

We could also close some of the 800 U.S. military bases we have around the world, and ratchet back some wea pon systems. Especially the ones the military brass doesn't want!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 07/04/2009
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 54 fans permalink
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Okay Mr. Smarty, and just what do you do with the people stationed at those bases? Bring them back to the U.S.? They are still on the government payroll. And what about all the hardware at those bases? Leave it in place? And what about all the jobs at home that replacing that hardware generates? Cut the contracts? It's also likely that those base are under long term lease agreements with the hosting countries. Yes, our military presence in other countries needs to be reduced but it is just just as simply as you make it seem. Essentially, the military is a jobs programs with security benefits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 07/04/2009
- Boyaca I'm a Fan of Boyaca 18 fans permalink

Military soending does not produce anything for the country. The money would be much better spent on infrastructure, education, research and developement and health care. Instead of undermining countries with natural resourses the military budget would allow the country to buy the resourses instead of killing to get them. All former empires have been driven onto the rocks by excessive military spending and wars. The USA will be no exception. The two fatal steps empires take to destroy themselves is to start pushing paper around instead of actually making stuff ,and foreign wars. The latest empire to find that out was Great Britain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 07/04/2009

OK fine give them all a paint brush and paint and make America look better at least.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 07/04/2009
- kelcuk I'm a Fan of kelcuk 2 fans permalink
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Yeah, I'm sure that 1.5 billion dollar submarines and 200 million dollar F-22 Raptors are really useful against the Taliban. What are we building these things for anyway? I'll tell you why... even the Republican Eisenhower saw it coming. The military industrial complex, the bloated and all too powerful Pentagon bureaucrats and hysterical war mongers are forcing this country to spend a half a trillion a year on boondoggles that provide no value to our economy and are being created to fight a fictitious enemy. More hundreds of billions even trillions wasted on the two wars through "supplemental" spending.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 07/04/2009
- Peabodies I'm a Fan of Peabodies 21 fans permalink

We could start by repealing the Bush tax cuts, and then the Reagan tax cuts. That would make the rich pay their fair share, the way it's done in other countries.

The Peterson Institute's main mission is to destroy Social Security. So they keep planting these "land mines" every so often, hoping people will soften up to their ideas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 07/04/2009
- ROinReno I'm a Fan of ROinReno 2 fans permalink

Debt seems to be an American trait. The fact is people have run their own lives just as the Government has run the country....Just keep borrowing.
No business could survive with a never ending negative cash flow.

The unfortunate fact is this country is run by greed with little thought to sustainability by those on Wall Street, the insurance companies and the military/industrial complex..
In the end it is Main Street that pays the bills and it is Main Street that has been under constant pressure to make less and give up more, for the last 40 years.

Obama has accomplished a great deal and will no doubt accomplish more.
But the failure to deal with the usury problem and to do more to reestablish the manufacturing infrastructure in this country will continue the economic problems of Main Street and by default the deficit.

More importantly how will the influence of special interests be finally deflated, it's clear it will not be done by goverment, that leaves it to Main Street and their vote to continue the "House" cleaning.
2010 and 2012 may be as interesting as 2008 if the voters target those who vote for the benefit of special interests rather than in the best interests of the greater good.
If so the Party of NO may be gone for good, we can certainly hope so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 AM on 07/04/2009
- mikekc I'm a Fan of mikekc 13 fans permalink
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The debt went from 5 to 11 trillion under Bush. Where was all the concern about the debt? What conservatives criticized him? Why do we always hear about the debt when there is discussion about social reform - e.g. health care reform - yet prior to wars in the period of "let's get our war on" grandstanding I never hear any "serious" financial types suggest we don't have the money for it. Until I see discussion of military spending cuts discussed in connection with "worry " about the debt I consider it to be smokescreen.

As long as the dollar and the US military remain pre-eminent, it will be necessary for the US to run current account deficits each year to balance the system. Until the world stops wanting the hold dollars the US will continue to be a net exporter of debt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 07/04/2009

Brilliantly insightful article. Who could have imagined that $11.5 Trillion in debt might spell trouble?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 07/04/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 193 fans permalink

Keep in mind that 11.5 Trillion is our debt based on "Cash Accounting" where an expense isn't "real" until payment is made. Under an accrual accounting system I believe our real debt is nearly double that if you throw in things like what the Iraq war has COMMITTED us to pay instead of what we've ACTUALLY paid or our infrastructure deficit or the coming disaster with health care.

We're in a LOT more trouble than the good folks in DC want us to know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 07/04/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

$454 billion a year in interest on the debt would pay for the healthcare of all Americans. Put the war on budget and see who is in favor of raising their taxes to pay for these lost causes. America is being ripped off and suffering for its stupidity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 07/04/2009
- MakeAWish I'm a Fan of MakeAWish 26 fans permalink

STOP THE DAMN WARS!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 07/04/2009
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Alvin Lee wrote..."Tax the rich..feed the poor, till there no rich no more...I'd love to change the world,but I don't know what to do." This country needs another Andrew Jackson. Mistreated the Indians, but we were out of debt. This country needs to go back to the tax policy in place when Eisenhower was president. The rich need to pay more 'cause they make so much more. Corporations need to pay more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 AM on 07/04/2009

an obscure but great guitarist and lead singer....Ten Years After.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 07/04/2009
- billw8017 I'm a Fan of billw8017 38 fans permalink

Right wing governments tend to run deficits. This was the instance with Bourbon France, Bismarck's Germany and the post WWII Republicans in the United States. Deficits allow the wealthy to invest in government bonds rather than apply their extra income to taxes. This way, the government ends up supporting them rather than them supporting the government. In Europe before the great wars, this produced a class of "Rentiers," who became a major government expense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 07/04/2009

Yup. It's pretty much an endless cycle. State loweres taxes on the rich, thus causing the state to go into dept. The state then sell bonds (just a way of borrowing money) to the rich who buy them with the money they have saved through tax cuts. The state then pays the rich interest on the bonds (loans of money) to the rich who use it to buy more bonds and collect more interest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 07/04/2009

or the FED.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 07/04/2009
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