Anti-Abortion Activists Push New, Radical Egg-As-Person Measures

RHRealityCheck.org:

A resurgent movement to place "personhood" measures on state ballots across the nation to ban abortion and comprehensive reproductive care could have far more sweeping implications than the trial balloon Colorado voters soundly defeated last year.

Far from being dissuaded by the 3-to-1 loss from their 2008 campaign to confer zygotes with legal rights, abortion opponents are regrouping with a broader initiative that purports to address life span issues, from conception to death.

Read the whole story: RHRealityCheck.org

Comments

[FormerReaganite]

An acorn is a *potential* oak tree. An acorn is not the *same thing* as an oak tree. A fertilized egg is a *potential* human. It is not the *same thing* as a human. (And biologically speaking, the acorn HAS BEEN fertilized, the same as a human zygote)

[NHGranite]

Eggsactly the argument I was going to make, almost word for word, thanks!

[SonofLiberty1]

If the acorn does not find a place to root than it can not turn into a tree.
If a fertilized egg does not implant it will die.

Of course, we assume that everyone understands...

How do you tell if a fertilized egg cell is not dead? Or alive for that matter.

I think that's what you might term miscarriage..if it dies.

[FormerReaganite]

These analogies are good ones. Let's keep this going...

[slaxx]

how old are you? we coulnt our age based on the day we were born. there's a reason for that.

there is no difference between a fertilized egg and an unfertilized one - neither one is a human. that is the issue here.

[Bongborg]

You know, back in the bad old days, when there was only one kind of Christianity (to hear them tell it), the Catholics considered the soul as not being given to the child until it had survived a while outside the womb, and people often delayed months in naming their children, because of the infant mortality rates. Who says they don't change with the times, eh?

[RayPacNW]

It doesn't matter WHY someone believes life begins at conception, unless you're curious and want to respectfully inquire. You obviously don't believe it, and I'm not making fun of you for your opinion. Why do you have to demean others whose opinion differs? You do nothing to further the dialogue with this.

[PaiaGirl]

I totally support your right to believe whatever you want...just so long as you respect MY right not to believe it and don't try and pass legislation to restrict MY rights. Deal? I won't force you to have an abortion and you won't force me NOT to have one.

[anthead]

because some peope can't mind their own buisness.

[BlueMominaRedState]

and it doesn't matter if they believe life begins at conception unless THEY are the ones contemplating abortion.

Look, I'm what would be considered pro-life. A mother of 5 who would never have an abortion because I think it is wrong. But it will be a cold day in hell before I support government intrusion into women's reproductive lives. I fully support progressive measures to limit the need (both perceived and real) for abortion but recognize that any laws that limit female bodily autonomy threaten ALL choices women would make. Carrie Buck should have taught the nation something about this issue. Sadly it seems we are a nation of slow learners with nothing better to do than poke our noses into other peoples vaginas while ignoring serious issues that DO require government intervention.

[SonofLiberty1]

Thank You!

Why is it that folks who say they don't believe, just say they don't believe?

Why is it that some of them at least are of the opinion that they know everything about everything?

[citizensrus]

So, do you agree that both beliefs can exist. Or is it a belief that you want to pass as a law to force others to have the same belief?
In other words..do doctors and pregnant women have to accept only the belief that personhood begins at conception?
Can you accept that I believe differently or are you determined to use the law to tell me when personhood begins?

[sueinmn]

I suppose next they will determine that anyone having a miscarriage will be a mur.derous! Could you have prevented it? They are so full of themselves and go too far.

[weatherwaxx]

True - about half of all early pregnancies terminate in spontaneous abortion. Does that mean God is pro-abortion?

[SonofLiberty1]

Just ask women who have a miscarriage...they wanted that child
And no God is not pro abortion.

But the question of why miscarriages happen has I guess always been a troubling one.

I guess we just have to wait to ask God why.

[chronic]

Don't these insecure r!ght w!ng overweight wh!te males have anything else to do?

[Bongborg]

You mean besides eating Cheet-ohs? Nope.

[FormerReaganite]

Hey, they're just trying to get more votes.

[Human-Being]

If an egg is human, then every miscarriage should be treated as a suspicious death.

[FormerReaganite]

I would like to see them try to accuse my wife of murder.

[RayPacNW]

No one should be accusing anyone of anything. But that doesn't mean the discussion of this issue needs to be halted just because people feel strongly about it.

[ozwald888]

I've noticed how conservatives, repugs and anti-abortionists all seem to care a great deal for the health and well-being of a fetus, but cannot turn their backs fast enough on the needs of a child living in the world.

Just recently, repugs voted down free health care for poor children. They are constantly advocating against programs to help poor children learn, eat or gain housing. However, these same people will murder a doctor because he/she provides needed health care services to women.

They can take their HYPOCRITICAL "Egg as person" laws and shove them where the moon won't shine.

[SonofLiberty1]

Oz,

You can rightfully ask if they are true followers of Christ....

Personally, I don't know when they think the church changed...but some people did.

I have to assume some Christians became REPUBLICANS and shed their Christianity.

[ozwald888]

Son...

Not only are repugs required to shed their religion, all must first shed their humanity to become a repuglican.

[FightTheLies]

My next question is this. If a woman under this law miscarries, is it considered manslaughter? Will they try to count that as murder? I'm not a female, but I don't want some whack-a-doodle having control of my wife's uterus. If they want less Gov't, then start with that first.

[anthead]

they need the unwanted children to work for minimum wage because they can't have slaves anynore.

[FormerReaganite]

I do wonder if slavery still existed, if conservatives would advocate it.

[PurplePeon]

Considering it was the right that had to fight the left over slavery, I doubt it.

[sueinmn]

Ok people, I had a hysterectomy (spelling???) at age 25. Already had 2 great kids. Medical reasons caused a condition. I was hit and run and messed up. Still have my ovaries though. Can I claim all these built up eggs as life? Can I leave my assets (if any) to my unborn offspring? Can I benefit financially on my unborn life? Can they from me? With no periods and ovaries full of eggs, what the he.ll do I do with all my kids as Im in my 50s now. Their must be thousands if not millions of kids in here! I really would like to take tax deductions for all those kids!

[Blutodog]

It's all about the control of women and by extension men. Get people by the genitals and they'll follow u anywhere. It's about power. These folks care nothing about about children only the act of making them.

[kwinyan]

Good point about power over both women and men. And yes, the ones who demand birth are among the last to care about their well being afterwards.

[sueinmn]

We should start a movement refusing men sex! Let them hand wash things out! Control should work both ways. The cavemen grunted when they wanted it. I say castration for all those done having families and those young and unmarried, well we can fix them also. Paybacks can be hard to take and they do deserve it! What gets me is the preachers preaching this crap for political reasons and then they abuse children or get caught being hypocritical like Sanders.

[Bongborg]

Well, aren't you the little Lysistrata? Don't hate all men for what some say, it's kinda unbecoming, and makes the ones like me cross you off the list for sex, anyways, so I think your movement probably won't move far.

You know, what with the characters being Greek and all, I never could see Lysistrata's plan working out, anyways.

[sueinmn]

What about octomom? Is she a poster mom now for Catholics? Eggs eggs and more eggs. Are they supporting her instead of the state?????

[SonofLiberty1]

No octomom was nuts.

[Bongborg]

But you wouldn't deny her her "Reproductive rights", now would you? No, you are in favor of her spitting out lots of babies, aren't you? Preferably Catholic, of course.

[weatherwaxx]

Isn't it interesting that abortion and (to many) even birth control are eviyal and sinful, but artificial fertility is "a blessing from God?" Maybe when God doesn't let some people get pregnant, She's trying to give them a gentle hint...

[MikaS]

I keep reading your comments while nodding in agreement.

[sueinmn]

Conservative Catholics desire all human life be born, even if the person does not desire to be a mother. Ban contraceptives and force me to have children against my will and it is a dictatorship! Being married having sex entitles me to those enjoyments! Banning contraceptives if I choose sex over motherhood is dictating! Who do they think they are? Practicing their religious beliefs is their business but when they step on me by dictating their will over mine, is my business! We no longer have religious freedom as mine is not theirs! That violates my civil liberties! Let the worry about the life we already have and find a will and a way to give health coverage and economic care to those in need. This would be much better time spent! The conservatives believe in forcing life in any manner they can dream up but have no regard to present lives in need. Hypocrits by nature will make them more irrelevant. Murdering anilmals is fine but by golly forcing human life is priority. Do they show regard to quakity of said human life? NO>NO>NO. Stay out of my life, my home, my personal business.

[citizensrus]

http://www.acubaby.com/portals/194/images/glossary/ectopic%20pregnancy.jpg
Is this a zygote? Is this a person?

[TXfemmom]

This is ludicrous and dangerous. If an egg is a human, what are they going to do when an ovary has to be removed because it is diseased and there are thousands of eggs left in it?

[SonofLiberty1]

Honey, don't they teach you to read in Texas anymore?

[TXfemmom]

I read it, and believe me, the next step would be just as harrowing. The pro-life group always stretches and distorts everything into something it shouldn't be and they would get to that, believe me.

[Bongborg]

Wherever you are from, looks like all they taught you was to be an a$$.

[sueinmn]

Are they looking for a way to ban stem cell research?

[TXfemmom]

They want to ban birth control of any type, on the premise that an egg, once mature is a human being which should be born and birth control would kill it. They don't just want to ban abortion, they want to ban ALL BIRTH CONTROL. That is the goal of many fundamentalist Catholics and others who view any birth control as evil and unnatural. Sounds just like the Taliban, huh, in that they think everyone should have to follow their beliefs. Believe me, read the story. What they are stretching for is not just the ability to block abortion and stem cell research, but also ALL BIRTH CONTROL.

[MossyOak]

Abortion is a moot point. It's legal and will remain legal. The Fetus Brigade needs to find another cause to rant about... like health care for people already alive and trying to stay that way.

[TXfemmom]

The goal of these groups is not just to stop abortion, they want to ban stem cell and all comprehensive birth control as in barrier and chemical.

[LongInTheTooth]

And then take us back to the times when bloodletting was the answer to all our medical problems....

[SonofLiberty1]

No we do not want to ban birth control.

[RayPacNW]

Since Huff ate my other reply, I'll keep this one short - I already advocate with friends and family for the progressive causes that you outlined. And I'm pro-life. It's possible to be both, although it doesn't always make you popular.

[PaiaGirl]

I support your right to be a progressive who believes abortion is wrong...as long as you don't try to pass a law imposing that belief on me. We do not all have to be cookie cutter duplicates in our beliefs.

[thaigoodlikeshirt]

Until socially conservative women all together and permanently stop seeking birth control and abortion in secret under the belief that their own circumstances are special or the exception and therefore morally justifiable, there will never be a ban on birth control or abortion - it will just once again become the privilege of the rich and influential. While I am sure they'd be quite happy with many more poor, underprivileged and undereducated minions to support their social causes and work in their factories awaiting their riches in Heaven, I am more apt to believe that even the women on the Right, ever having tasted or gotten a whiff of the freedom of controlling one's own body, are never truly going to turn their backs on it.
I know a few evangelical/ultra conservatives who love Ann Coulter. I ask them if it bothers them that she's not married yet even though she's dated, has been engaged many times, has admitted without shame to premarital sex and cohabitation, and if they really think she's gotten through life this far, if she's indeed a biological woman, without ever having an unplanned pregnancy or trying to safeguard against it. If they don't say ''really?'' they say ''well, that's really none of my business and no one should be prying into her personal life to pass judgment on her.''

[Rockwell]

Actually I think this is a great idea.

1. We should count Zygotes in the national census.

2. Since personhood starts at sperm-meets-egg, we should tack an automatic 9 months onto everyone's age. The 20 year olds could get an early start on drinking. 17 year olds could vote.

3. Every miscarriage should be reported to the police as a possible homicide. A woman must provide evidence that she did not contribute in any way to the death of her Zygote.

4. We should add Zygote detection equipment on all toilets just to make sure none of these murders go undetected.

5. If a Zygote has constitutional rights, then why shouldn't the individual components that make up a Zygote? Every sperm should be sacred. Masterbation and contraception should be illegal because it keeps the Zygote from coming to life which is no different than smothering a baby in the crib.

6. Menstration should become illegal because it represents a failure to allow the birth of a Zygote. Its bascially an early early early stage abortion.

See, these areas are so clear cut and universally understood that it totally makes sense for anal-retentive, right wing, mysogynistic control freaks to make national laws to dictate how everyone should live.

[SonofLiberty1]

I'm sorry but just why should a sperm be sacred?

Surely you jest right?

[PaiaGirl]

Oh course Rockwell is jesting...omigosh, you didn't think that was a serious proposal!?

[NHGranite]

Like in Monty Python' song "every sperm is sacred" from the movie The Meaning of Life

[Bongborg]

Michele Bachmann has stated she will give no information on her zygotes to the census.