Anti-Abortion Activists Push New, Radical Egg-As-Person Measures

RHRealityCheck.org:

A resurgent movement to place "personhood" measures on state ballots across the nation to ban abortion and comprehensive reproductive care could have far more sweeping implications than the trial balloon Colorado voters soundly defeated last year.

Far from being dissuaded by the 3-to-1 loss from their 2008 campaign to confer zygotes with legal rights, abortion opponents are regrouping with a broader initiative that purports to address life span issues, from conception to death.

Read the whole story: RHRealityCheck.org

Comments

[SonofLiberty1]

MORE HUFFPOST BALONEY...

It DOES NOT give legal status to a HUMAN OVUM!

This is what it says...

"The proposed 2010 constitutional ballot language - "the term 'person' shall apply to every human being from the beginning of the biological development of that human being"

And this is EXACTLY in line with what Pope John Paul II said about a "Consistent Ethic of Life" that covers from Conception to Natural Death.

[richsmith]

What in God's name are you babbling about?

[Bongborg]

Exactly.

[SonofLiberty1]

Apparently, you did not read the article.

Whoever matched the huffpost title to the story wanted it to look

"More Controversial" than it actually is.

[Bongborg]

You know what? I don't give a flying reproductive exercise what any of the Popes said about anything at all, and I am even descended from Pope Alexander VI, myself. You want a consistent ethic? How about no popes calling for wars in holy causes, no popes giving away half of the world (my own ancestor's sin, or one of them, rather), no popes belonging to the Hitler Youth, no popes telling Jews they can't live anywhere... I could go on and on, but the idea is, your infallible Papas...they all fail. And that is consistent.

[CR46]

Then I can have my eggs removed, fertilized and frozen and claim them as dependents??!!

[Bongborg]

No, that would be child abuse.

[SonofLiberty1]

Why would you want to do that?

[sueinmn]

Tax deductions!

[anthead]

The Pope said??? Who cares!

[SonofLiberty1]

And who cares what you say too:)

[reggieb]

I'm against it.

[SonofLiberty1]

Again, it's not about saying that the human ovum is a person.

[DosGatos2]

I'll be on the side of the fetus worshipers when all the children who are already born in the US go to sleep in stable and safe homes with full bellies and wake up to attend good schools that prepare them to be productive citizens.

More than 20 percent of the children in the US are growing up below the poverty line. It has always seemed strange to me that the fetus worshipers concern for the baby ends the minute it leaves the womb. Why aren't these people more interested in helping the children these fetuses grow in to? Why do you love the fetus but hate the child?

Abortion is a wedge issue that conservatives have exploited for years to get evangelicals to vote against their own best economic interests and against the very Christian values of "life" evangelicals claim to believe in. How very sad that they can't figure that out.

[RayPacNW]

The phrase "fetus worshipper" is just the kind of irrational rhetoric that keeps this issue from being seriously discussed in this country.

Abortion certainly is a wedge issue, and that's a shame. Conservatives have done their best to turn the whole thing into a vote machine. But that doesn't mean there aren't genuine differences to discuss.

[Bongborg]

No, using terms like "partial birth abortion" is the kind of irrational rhetoric that makes guys like the one who killed Dr. Tiller preempt discussion.

[vinny]

it's a wedge issue on both sides.

[DosGatos2]

Discussing when life begins gets us nowhere. Arguments about a woman's right to choose does not advance the discourse either. The two sides have gone round and round for years.

Doesn't matter what you call them. It's time these people were confronted about how irrational it is to focus such energy and money solely on abortion and absolutely none on taking care of those already born. Given the religious underpinnings of their objection to abortion, it is a singular and spectacular weakness in their argument.

[citizensrus]

It may be coldhearted of me..but with statistics like this:
The United States has a higher ratio of maternal deaths than at least 40 other countries, even though it spends more money per capita for maternity care than any other.
and this:
Three mortality rates are of concern: perinatal mortality (death within 7 days of birth), neonatal mortality (death within 28 days of birth), and infant mortality (death within one year of birth). England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Canada, and Australia all have similar perinatal, neonatal, and infant mortality rates. All three rates are consistently higher in the United States and consistently lower in Sweden.
I think there is a disconnect between the "right to life" rhetoric and their actions.
Begin with Single Payer Health Care. Move on to support for families as they are given in Sweden and other countries where paternal and maternal leave is granted.
If you really are pro-life.. you would not be a Republican. Also, you would not be a predatory capitalist. You would support a progressive tax system.

[thaigoodlikeshirt]

It's hard not too get emotionally involved, and ''fetus-worshipper'' may be insulting, but I think it's an apt description.

I am a pro-choice and non-religious, and I have an evangelical, every-sperm-is-sacred sister-in-law who recently had her first child. Neither she or her husband are college educated, and neither can get a good job with a livable wage. They don't use birth control and have one child they can barely afford. My brother-in-law, her husband, is stocking shelves part-time at the grocery store. This is where pro-choice non-theist me comes in - I have the financially ability to be the ''mysterious way'' in which Jesus answered their prayers by taking over the title and payments on their car. This same sister-in-law, upon finding out a family friend had an unplanned pregnancy that would interfere with her cancer treatment, and if followed through would put both mother and fetus in jeopardy, called her up to guilt her with a every-life-is-sacred speech and alienated her when she found out that the friend choose the abortion anyway.
It is so easy to not be against ''baby-killing''; it's not easy to take up responsibility for those babies.

[FormerReaganite]

Agreed. Conservatives fight for the baby *before* it is born, but turn their back on it once it is born. That is the difference between liberals and conservatives: liberals actually *care* about children's welfare. But I'm not entirely sure the other side is on track. They claim to be concerned (and perhaps some are) but the politicians on the right wing really only want votes.

[RayPacNW]

Lots of sarcasm here - but let's cut to the chase:

People who are pro-choice do not believe human life, as we would know and protect it, begins at conception. If they did, they would obviously not favor freely available abortion (except perhaps in fringe cases such as the mother's health, rape or incest).

People who are pro-life believe that human life does indeed begin at conception.

You don't have to be a radical right-wingnut to be pro-life. I'm a lefty, and I am pro-life, simply because I fall into the second category. Before you jump all over me because I'm a man, let me tell you - my wife, also a progressive, believes exactly the same way, for the same reason.

Jumping to extreme conclusions and spouting vile names and insinuations doesn't result in any progress on this issue. People need to have an honest and respectful dialogue. That's hard when extremists on both sides have hijacked the public discourse, and when the issue itself is used as a political wedge. But a reasoned discussion is what needs to happen.

[sueinmn]

Do you believe abortions and birth control should be banned? Do you believe giving men viagra and then banning birth contol to be hypocritical? Should insurance cover one and not the rest? Why should men have sex with no consequences and women be forced into parenthood? What about incest, rape, children having children. Why not ban all sex? Seriously why should it be allowed for men and not for women if it has consequences for women only? Why should myself or my daughter be forced to carry a child unwanted for various reasonsTrying to have that civil conversTION.

[SonofLiberty1]

Thank you ...very well phrased response.
Over the last few years I've decided to call myself moderate rather than liberal due to the extremists.

[Bongborg]

Congratulations to you both on finding comfortable labels, and on not going over to the dark side on a single issue thing.

Surely you understand that being locked into your view as you are, and proselytizing, is in no way more moderate than what the pro-life extremists do? You will not convert anyone here. It is a topic no one changes opinion on, and entering a discussion on it, especially when you break out other dogma like the Pope's infallibility as you did earlier, isn't "promoting reasonable discussion". It's agitation. When you are agitating people, what you get is your own fault.

Keep your dogma out of my yard.

[PurplePeon]

This is such a simple issue. If you don't have a really good reason to have an abortion, it should be illegal. Ending human life is wrong.

[anthead]

This is such a simple issue. Mind your own buisness.

[RayPacNW]

If it's a human life, it is our business.

This is where people oversimplify. If someone believes a human life is at stake, it's pretty hard to just sit by and "mind your own business", just as surely as if you saw someone being mugged in an alley.

[Bluejay00234]

Touche'

[SonofLiberty1]

It's a very simple issue...

You are an extraterristrial allien and not human.

[MathIsTruth]

But a fetus is not a human life. So I disagree with you there.

And there aren't really many good reason for ending human life. So it seems really weird, given that YOU believe a fetus is a person, that you think it's okay to kill as long as you have a good reason. Doesn't sound "pro life" to me at all.

[SonofLiberty1]

Who are you talking to? Apparently many Republicans do think it's ok to make war without provocation etc. They might call themselves Christian but are really not Christian at all

[citizensrus]

A good reason should be the decision of the woman making the choice. It should be legal. Why should someone else decide. We know that there is no agreement on the right as to what is a good reason. Some believe that incest, rape and the life of the mother are not good reasons for abortion. Some believe therapeutic abortions are good reasons, others don't. I say if life begins at conception..then there are no good reasons. However, I don't believe human life begins at conception. I believe it begins with the first breath. Again..this is a matter of debate. So, the law stepped in and chose "viable" outside the womb. However, what is viable outside the womb?
Some believe that the quality of life isn't important only life itself..and would save a fetus with medicine that would never have a healthy, normal,physical, neurological, or emotional life. Is this viable? It's all of these issues that come into the debate..and then add in the law and penalties and you have complications that don't save lives or stop abortions.
This is really an issue that should be between a woman and her doctor and whomever else she chooses to bring into her decision. Ultimately its her body and her body is her domain.

[RayPacNW]

If you believe that life begins at conception, then you would believe there are two lives and two domains at issue.

[PurplePeon]

"Ultimately its her body and her body is her domain."

Unborn, innocent life > mother's.

[MossyOak]

Define "a really good reason."

[Rockwell]

Who gets to decide what constitutes "a good reason?" You?? Tell you what, I totally agree there needs to be "a good reason" and I think the woman should decide what that is.

[PurplePeon]

Ya, I'm the one who decides. Right.

[Rockwell]

That's right up there with PETA flipping out about Obama swatting a fly. Right or Left, a lunatic is a lunatic.

[PaiaGirl]

So true.

[Moxo]

Just a thought - if women have their eggs extracted and kept frozen... can they claim child benefits from the IRS, without all the drama of actually bringing a child into the world??

A couple of hundred frozen eggs getting benefits could produce quite a nest egg, so to speak.

[CR46]

Works for me, I'm done and have all these extra eggs.

[SonofLiberty1]

You too? Sheesh...The Title of the Story Is WRONG!

It's not about giving an "EGG" personhood.

You folks amaze me.... really..please learn to

READ!

[Bongborg]

If you think you get amazed here, get up in my face in the street about this sometime. Then you'll be really amazed.

[ladyjbell]

I suggest that we round up all the Personhood folks, ensconce them comfortably in a "communal"
setting; like a large outdoor enclosure (Arizona) contained by an eletricified fence. That way they could march around with their little protest signs and we could keep an eye on them. The real world is really no place for those whose religion has spread to their brains. Since reality alludes them anyway, they will feel quite at home away from godless liberals, secular humanists, Democrats, agnostics, atheists, etc., etc,. etc.

[Indedave]

Good idea, but can we make it Oklatexas instead? I'm sure the nuts from my state would be happy to have the chance to travel more than 10 miles from their birthplace.

[SonofLiberty1]

You are talking about most Catholics...I think we are more than you are:)

[CR46]

All the catholics I know use birth control and a few have had abortions :)

[Bongborg]

More what? Gullible? Ignorant? Loud?

[reggieb]

Please.. Their opinions on abortion are even with everyone elses and most Catholics I know don't even think about the issue AND they hardly support places like Birthright.

[BrockSampson]

So if I have intercourse with my pregnant wife, will I be locked up for rape of a minor?

[CR46]

No but if you impregnate her, her egg has not reached the age of consent, so you and your sperm would be guilty of rape of a minor.

[Caliwoman]

Makes me want to sing the Monty Python "Every Sperm is Sacred" song.

[lthuedk 1]

The dumbing down process; the attack on Science and Education, the trend towards obedience and uniformity, left a mark that could take a decade to erase. We now face millions of socially-impaired gospel slingers-some heavily armed-and none of them tolerant or informed.

What do we expect, after a decade of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, their Grand Wizards of the Eye4Eye Ministry of Death and Revenge, and Fox Propaganda Inc-an impression of benevolence, reason, truth, order and tolerance?

http://www.light-to-dark.com/coulter_limbaugh_oreilly.html

[DosGatos2]

Good point! It may take more than one decade however. Many decades.

[neocon666]

Brought to you by the same people that believe the Flintstones actually happened.

[Jayson F BA]

I live in Colorado and voted against there amendment then, but they think if they just change the language it will pass. I also live near a planned parenthood where they protest frequently. I confronted them one day when they were yelling at someone as they entered. I ended up talking with them. THEY ARE SCARY PEOPLE. They believe in no birth control, and since I disagreed with them, some of there uneducated and possible mentally challenged protesters just started yelling in my face. It occurred to me that these Christian Fundamentalists long term goal is to create a Christian theocracy state where there view of the bible is the only view. We all must stand up to these terrorists, yes terrorists. We must protect our constitution because they seek to destroy it.

[cdnnewsjunky]

Your right. The whacked out variety of Christian; and I'm beginning to wonder if there is any other kind; is dangerous to democracy.

[been2there]

There is another kind--but we tend not to belong to megachurches.

[slaxx]

don't talk about god's warriors like that!


(sarcasm)

[Deja Peterson]

abortion will never go away. so sit down and shut the h*ll up.

[zenwhenicanbe2]

honestly that's the best thing I've heard

[Indedave]

The sheer breadth of the rightwing meltdown now taking place is so astonishing as to make me giddy. I guess I never suspected how loosely-cobbled and tentative their coalition has been. Although the deep polarization of the electorate still troubles me deeply, I am beginning to feel a bit like Rip van Winkle in that the long national nightmare they personify is coming to a close.

[Cunningham]

U.S. Constitution

Amendment 14

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

---

Got it crazies? Good.

[psnyder]

What? You have to be born? Ah jeez....

[Cunningham]

;-)