Biden Israel-Iran Statements Cause Storm Of Regional Responses

The effects of Vice President Joe Biden's recent remarks during an interview with ABC's "This Week"--where he implied that Israel has a sovereign right to defend itself against a nuclear-inclined Iran, irrespective of US demands or guidance--continued to ripple through the region with statements from a leading Iranian official. According to Al Jazeera, Iranian Speaker of Parliament Ali Larijani made clear Monday that the US, more so than Israel, would be the one held in censure for an Israeli attack, and he vowed a "decisive and painful" Iranian response.

"We will consider the Americans responsible in any adventure launched by the Zionist entity," Larijani said in Doha, the capital of Qatar, on Monday during an official visit.

"No politician or person in the world can imagine that the Zionist entity can lead an operation without getting the green light from the United States."

The salient Biden remarks that have caused concern to Iranian officials are, according to Reuters:

"We cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination, that they're existentially threatened."

And,

"If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed."

Interestingly enough, Biden actually expressed a somewhat opposite view in September of 2008 while running for Vice President when he said on US Jewish Army Radio that, "Israel will have to reconcile itself with the nuclearization of Iran."

However, via Greg Sargent, President Obama has since weighed in, speaking to CNN, to remove from the table any implicit US consent for an Israeli attack: "We have said directly to the Israelis that it is important to try and resolve this in an international setting in a way that does not create major conflict in the Middle East."

Obama also told CNN that the US has "absolutely not" given Israel permission to unilaterally attack Iran.

Of the factions now forming in Iran in the aftermath of its disputed June 12 election, Larijani, for his part, has sided explicitly with the state, endorsing Ahmadinejad's disputed victory and supporting the government crackdown of protests, which have been declared illegal by the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei (who is also the absolute authority on matters of foreign policy).

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Larijani's statement Monday was accompanied elsewhere by a statement from the government of Saudi Arabia denying reports of secret dealings with Israel over the use of shared airspace to facilitate an attack on Iran.

However, Biden is not without his supporters. Israel's controversial right-wing foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, agreed with Biden's remarks, weighing them as "logical". According to the AP:

"I think he said things that are very logical," he said. "Israel is a sovereign state and at the end of the day, the government of Israel has sole responsibility for its security and future, not anybody else."

"Sometimes there are disputes between friends, but at the end of the day the decision is ours."

However, according to the AP report, most other Israel officials have abstained from comment, suggesting that they do not regard Biden's statement as a "green light" for any preemptive military action against Iran.

This is perhaps explained by the fact that the Netanyahu government in Israel is purposefully not querying the US, so as to maintain the freedom that comes with not having been explicitly told "no". Reported by the Washington Times:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his top deputies have not formally asked for U.S. aid or permission for possible military strikes on Iran's nuclear program, fearing the White House would not approve, two Israeli officials said.

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Comments

[S1m0n]

I doubt the Iranians will be misled by the choreographed 'controversy'.

[moe shrevinitz]

Can the rumors in Israeli political circles be true? Has Tony Blair, the self appointed "envoy" of the west to the Mideast, along with a score of MI6 operatives, succeeded in coordinated the upcoming attack on Iran's nuclear production facilities. He & MI6 have been busy in recent weeks helping Saudi Prince Turki's Saudi intelligence service, the Al Mukhabarat Al A'amah, to strongarm the other Arab gulf states into cooperating in the attack. And his agents have managed to get the Jordanian intelligence agency, the GID, to facilitate communication between Netanyahu's Israeli Defense Forces and Mubarak's Egyptian Mukhabarat el-Khabeya to allow Israeli submarines to pass through the Suez Canal into the Arabian Sea where they are rumored to have been refueled at Gulf State ports. The Jordanian GID has often played the communicator role in the past. Rumors abound in that the attack by Israeli Defense Forces will be assisted by British Stealth bombers flying from the UK base at Diego Garcia. That remains to be seen. But the Netanyahu attack has moved beyond the planning stages into full deployment of the submarine forces for cruise missile strike capability and the landing of joint special operations forces to attack Iranian naval forces in the Persian Gulf. Tony Blair may be remembered as the man who started WWIII. All just rumors? We will know any day now.

[MarcusT]

"No politician or person in the world can imagine that the Zionist entity can lead an operation without getting the green light from the United States." Typical Islamic terrorist over statement. There are several people who believe that Israel could launch an attack without US approval.

[PrincipiaChamp]

Good grief this thread grew legs, became a monster and personal agenda for a handful of posters. The twisting of what VP Biden said, perhaps to fulfill individual schema via projection has now become slightly odd and almost uncomfortable to read.

Anything written of Israel will be reacted to with emotion…I get it. But it is unfair to place blame for personal fear, anger, and irritation on Mr. Biden, when to do so two opposing sides are insisting his meaning is their own. It is not the healthy discussion of opposing views that is bothersome, (it's why we're here) but rather the creative back and forth and seemingly intentional misinterpretation of the vice president’s words in order to back individual stance that I find frustrating.

Biden is as straight forward in speaking as they come, and I understand if he says an item is blue, that he indeed means that the item is blue. Comments such as "had he [Biden] added..." is absurd. This was a good interview covering myriad topics, cherry-picking wording left in or out is a cheap shot.

Rather than my embarrassing tirade, perhaps read the post by ChampLessFuzzy; it’s beautiful in its honesty. Often things are far simpler than we insist on making them out to be; however, our deepest fears, ardor and passion can suddenly, and inadvertently, tangle up a perfectly straight line.

[SparkyDash]

(thank you)

[AbrahamSadegh]

Without our support a belligerent Israel will not last a day in the Middle East;

Without our support Israel would not have had nuclear weapons;

Without our support Israel would not have attacked Iraqi and Syrian nuclear facilities,

and without our support Israel would not be suppressing the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

Joe Biden’s statements were dangerous and provocative. What was he thinking?

Israel more than any other nation in the world, including Iran and North Korea, might be instrumental in starting the last war humanity will encounter.

[BubbaC33]

No one has reported nuclear testing by Israel. No one has reported seeing nuclear missles inside Israel. The only evidence we have nukes is the word of a convicted liar and traitor. This is hardly sufficient evidence.
Israel attacked the nuke sites in Syria and in Iraq in our own best interest and without help from the US.
Hamas, not Israel, is responsible for the sad lives of ordinary Gazan citizens.
VP Biden spoke the truth.
ANyone foolish enough to claim Israel is more dangerous than Iran or North Korea is ignorant of the situation in either of those nations.
Mr. Sadegh displays an unhealthy and dangerous bias against Israel that is based on falsehoods.

[MarcusT]

Just for the record: You do not believe Israel has "nukes" ?

[sposton]

Americans are being prepared for a war with Iran. We have forgotten about all that propaganda preceding the Iraq war because we have a dangerously low attention span and zero historical perspective. Demonization of Hussein is very similar to the current demonization of the Iranian mullahs. For sure, these are despicable regimes but so are many others around the world. What makes Iraq and Iran "special" is their oil resources and their regimes' unwillingness to go along with American hegemony. Imperial hubris will kill whatever good that is left of the American experiment.

[BubbaC33]

Gosh, I guess it will be the visionaries like you and arle who guide the US into the remainder of this century with your immense optimism.

[kwinyan]

In the transcript, Biden's remarks on the willingness to engage with Iran given close to his remark of Israel's sovereignty to attack Iran suggest a carrot and stick approach to diplomacy, rather than any green lights to Israel. It's certainly not the best approach to use, and Iran has already used it to their advantage by heralding it as a form of approval in the midst of an uprising.

[arle]

The only carrot I'm seeing in Biden's hands are AIPAC lobbying dollars.

[arvay]

So far I favor the Biden ineptus theory, rather than any attempt to send signals to Iran.

Interesting also is this report:

Iraqi lawmakers warn Israel against attacking Iran
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098726.html

. . . and the fact that our Iraqi friends refer to Israel as the "entity." The Iraqis may have hated Saddam (at least the Shiite majority) but they seem to share his views on Israel. And, come to think of it -- Iran's.

So much for neocon hopes that Iraq would turn into another subservient Egypt.

[Roozbeh]

Biden's comments are a huge boost for the regime in Iran and exactly at the time when there are signs of retreat by the hardliners. ----- Enough of cynicism and New Year well wishings for Iranian people.

[arle]

That's the worst tragedy of all. Remember Bush's "axis of evil" speech? Why are we repeating all the same mistakes of the previous administration, again?

[Macready]

totally agree with you arle .. I agrew tih larijani about biden's remarks . . and biden is supposed to be the an expert on foreign policy . . . . some expert . . . expert in putting his foot in his mouth more like .. . I wouldn't follow him anywhere

[GZLives]

Because believe it or not what Obama has discovered given his access to the intel - is that Bush had it all about right. Problem was Bush couldn't articulate it and was so inept no one believed anything he said anyway.

Obama, the pragmatist now sees exactly what's what and his problem will be how does he convince you all that he hasn't sold out to the Jews - which you will claim but describe it as AIPAC.

The Iranian regime is indeed dangerous, Islamists are really a threat to world security, and Israel is fighting for its life amidst an Arab world that has invested generations in propaganda induced Jew hatred and they really do reject living with Jews ... but you keep on believing its building towns and cities and villages that prevents peace from breaking out in the mideast. You keep believing that but be ready to invent another excuse because Israel will freeze all settlement activity and the Arabs will still not respond favorably.

[DenverJJ]

The Jewish state, unlike the US, still sees itself as a religous state and not a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. The US constitution keeps religion out governmnet to prevent tyrants from using the "god agruement" to justify their actions. For China communism is sort of a religion. The great faiths of the world give us principles for living, not clauses that sanctify murder and a lust power.
DenverJJ

[GZLives]

Wrong .. they see themselves as a secular Jewish State and NOT a "religious" state in any way.

[arle]

"Secular" and "Jewish" don't really add up.

[MarcusT]

Maybe not that simple-Zionist.

[mamacat]

During the campaigning, much was made of the idea that Biden had more foreign policy knowledge than Obama. Given what Biden said and how he said it, I am wondering now if that idea has validity.

While Biden's remarks are not quite as bad as McCain's 'Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran' chorus, they still do not rise to the level of constructive diplomacy. The Vice President of the United States should choose his words much more carefully than that.

[Macready]

well said mamacat .. . totally agree with you

[EspressoAtNoon]

Biden has always been a pawn of AIPAC. I suspect he's gone off Obama's reservation to attempt to lessen Obama's firm position.

[Macready]

you might be right Espresso . . . biden did vote for the illegal invasion of Iraq . . .

[CigarGod]

Yep. Biden was chosen when the criticism of Obamas lack of foreign experience was about to achieve critical mass.
Obama knew Biden would appeal to the hawks and the aipac folks.

[who38]

"Choosing his words carefully" has never been a Biden trait.

[MarcusT]

"...but any agreement with the Palestinian people must preserve Israel's identity as a Jewish state with secure, recognized, defensible borders. And Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided."

Barak Obama, June 4, 2008. Addressing the AIPAC conference 12 hours after securing his party's nomination.

[ChampLessFuzzy]

Part 1
I'm going to weigh in as someone who is admittedly naive of high-level in-depth foreign policy, but who maintains a general understanding of the world based on various sources (4 major and 1 local newspaper, network and cable news, online media, and Sunday pundits), and this is what I heard from VP Biden's interview, which covered a lot of topics of which he was expected to, and rightly so, respond to with knowledge, intellect, and provide appropriate backup and argument.
Mr. Biden "said:"
"Israel is a sovereign state and at the end of the day, the government of Israel has sole responsibility for its security and future, not anybody else."

Okay. I personally liked it. Now, this is what I...Mr. Average American..."heard" Biden say:
"Israel is a sovereign state and at the end of the day, the government of Israel has sole responsibility for its security and future, not anybody else."

Right. Good. About time we said this, not earth-shattering, just refreshing.

My apologies for sounding simple, but I guarantee other average Americans question why (1) we have Palin shoved down our throats, and (2) why a simple statement couldn't remain a simple statement. And not simple in context by any means.

[who38]

If he had added ".....and the US won't be."....this would not be an issue. Biden understands that much of a diplomatic message revolves around the unspoken, the innuendo, and the half truth. That is why his statement is a problem.

[ChampLessFuzzy]

Part 2
Today is Tuesday. If Biden's statement had been a big deal, we would have heard it immediately after the interview. Instead, it looks as though opportunists latched on to it, fed it, blew it up, passed it back and forth, and made it into some sort of a weapon to use in the rhetoric war of accusatory hate and fear. Many on this thread have helped that process along. A decent, well articulated statement was allowed to grow legs and its meaning and intent purposely bent, twisted and slanted by various groups according to individual agenda.

I heard no "green light" statement, not in the least. My family and fellow workers today did not hear any green light from the vice president.

But this, again, is comes from one of the millions of Average-Joes who question why we want to spend so much valuable time dissecting and second-guessing statements, when it is refreshing to finally hear them spoken unveiled and without PC.

Think of my statement as coming from a simpleton, but I guarantee that many average Americans who viewed a very good interview covering a tremendous amount of information, are feeling the very same confusion. I apologize to the obvious intellectuals on this thread who "know" a lot of stuff. But you should also hear from persons like me.

Now, I’m back to watching Frontline.

[SparkyDash]

Friend, you are far from a simplton. Our middle/working class are the ones out there working hard, raising families, making the mortgage payments, and experiencing the stresses, happiness, love and fear of everyday life.

I am going to guess that time to read, digest and post on blogs is rarer for you than for most of us. We forget that most work getting done day in and day out, takes place a good distance from computer access.

If there were a group the rest of us should listen to more often, it is you.

[LizM]

You really hit the nail on the head here. It never ceases to amaze me how what passes for the media these days can fail to understand anything about what Vice President Biden says and yet they can come up with all sorts of interpretations about what he did not say or about what they think he meant or put words into his mouth or take his comments completely out of context.

It is unbelievable. Here's a test that I encourage everyone to try. Pick a subject that you know a fair bit about and check a bunch of media sources for their take on it and let us know if you find ONE source that gets it right!

[jasjohn128]

Well said and well written. And (a belated) welcome to Huffpo, ChampLessFuzzy.

[AbstractImp]

Biden:
"We cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination, that they're existentially threatened."
The Biden backtrack is offered by others, explaining what he said in almost the same words.
While true "existentially", this also means Iran has the right to defend itself.

Obama
"We have said directly to the Israelis that it is important to try and resolve this in an international setting in a way that does not create major conflict in the Middle East."
and, that the US has "absolutely not" given Israel permission to unilaterally attack Iran.

Larijani:
"We will consider the Americans responsible in any adventure launched by the Zionist entity."
That was my observation yesterday.

Larijani's statement Monday was accompanied elsewhere by a statement from the government of Saudi Arabia denying reports of secret dealings with Israel over the use of shared airspace to facilitate an attack on Iran.
So every element of deceit here has been unmasked.
Any words from Iraq?

And Israel?
This is perhaps explained by the fact that the Netanyahu government in Israel is purposefully not querying the US, so as to maintain the freedom that comes with not having been explicitly told "no".

Does the petulant child think they can act as they wish?
Does Israel think they will be protected from the consequences of their actions?

[ChampLessFuzzy]

Bebe is smart. He must have understood that, should he wish to stomp across the playground and punch his schoolyard adversary in the nose, he will not do it with his big buddy standing behind him, ready to pounce should the adversary return the favor of a bloody nose.

It is hoped that this in itself will be a deterent for the initial punch, and further incentivise diplomatic interaction.

We are not Mom or Dad. Israel is not our 51st state. Consequences are taught to even the youngest of children. Their choices are made with more thought.

Nothing is simple in the region, but change will happen. I feel for the innocents.

[joeinvt]

One would think that Israel should be wary of people who refer to them as the Zionist entity, but why would Israel assume that the USA would come to their defense if attacked by another country or countries bent on their extermination? In the past when the country was attacked by multiple Arab countries determined to "push them into the sea," we didn't come to its defense. Also we give as much collectively in foreign aid to the Muslim countries of the Mideast as we do to Israel, which doesn't give Israel much of an edge (and would probably be better off if we cut such aid to them and to Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc.). Finally, the Jewish experience would be unlikely to give Israel the confidence that anyone will come to their defense if they are attacked. They have been there before and barely survived.

[Wisdo]

they call it "the zionist entity" because they do not recognise Isreal as a soverign state. You may not agree with them, but they are not the only country with this opinion of Israel and they have sound logical reasons for maintaining this position that have nothing to do with "antisemitisim" and everything to do with illegitimate nation building by the west.

I agree that Israel is a "zionist entity" and not a state proper because 1. they have no defined boarder and Israel constantly claims that international law and the UN have no legitimacy - despite the fact that it was international law and the UN which created Israel in the first place - however with different boarders than it currently occupies.

2. Israel is the only "country" in the world where the original inhabitants have been forced from their land to make way for people with only a tangential and theoretical connection with the area. Recent immigrants from Russia are even proudly parading an extreme form of antisemitisim including painting swastikas- yet these folks have more right to the land than palestinian famers trying to manage their farms on the west bank according to the zionist orthodoxy in Israel.

Israel is illegitimate like South Africa was illegitimate. And like South Africa one hopes Israel will gain its legitimacy through honesty and justice for all the people living there.

[arle]

The Prime Minister sets the term that one of their neighbors must be completely disarmed and at Israel's mercy and also acknowledge that Israel is a "Jewish nation" and you make it sound like refering to Israel as a Zionist entity is somehow inappropriate? To me, it seems to be the only way to separate Israel from sensible Jewish people.

[Sewardmom]

His remarks have been distorted. Watch video of what he actually said.

I'd rather hear that Cynthia McKinney has been released from an Israeli prison; but, of course, our U.S. media suppresses that type of info. Thank God for the internet. Thank God for people like Ms. McKinney, who actually put their lives on the line for those poor folks in Palestine.

[ChampLessFuzzy]

Yes, his remarks are being purposely distorted. Obama-Biden consider Palistine and its people important and with value.

"Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."

from "The Desiderata"
Max Ehrmann c1927

[SparkyDash]

The Desiderata is beautiful. The complete work has much to offer.