Blue Dog Dems Rebel On Health Care Bill

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DAVID ESPO and ERICA WERNER | July 9, 2009 11:43 PM EST | AP

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Vice President Joe Biden speaks about a White House deal with hospitals to help pay for President Barack Obama's overhaul of health care, Wednesday, July 8, 2009, in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in Washington. At left is Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)

WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the leadership was drafting on a fast track.

The emerging bill "lacks a number of elements essential to preserving what works and fixing what is broken," 40 members of the Blue Dog Coalition of moderate to conservative Democrats wrote party leaders. To win their support, they said, any legislation would need to be much more aggressive in reining in health care costs as well as in addressing a disparity in Medicare payments they said adversely affects rural providers.

A group of the moderates met into early evening with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and arranged to sit down with committee chairmen on Friday to go over proposed changes. Officials said the public release of the bill, originally set for Friday, would occur no earlier than Monday.

It was the second setback in three days for President Barack Obama's top domestic priority, although it was unclear whether it would amount to anything more than a brief delay for a bill of enormous complexity and controversy.

There was upheaval earlier in the week in the Senate, where the Democratic leadership is intent on scuttling a proposed tax on health care benefits that has long been key to attempts at a bipartisan compromise. At the same time, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and others went out of their way during the day to emphasize eagerness for Republican support.

As an alternative to the benefits tax, Democrats are considering raising taxes on wealthy investors to help pay for health care legislation, along with numerous other options, according to officials who spoke on condition of anonymity. The proposal to extend the current 1.45 percent Medicare payroll tax to capital gains earned by high-income taxpayers would bring in an estimated $100 billion over 10 years.

In the House, Hoyer sought to minimize the day's developments, which occurred as Democrats on one committee were making final decisions on provisions to pay for the legislation.

"Let me make it very clear that everybody in that room thinks we ought to pass health care reform," the Maryland Democrat said.

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One conservative Democrat, Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., said he believes no House vote should take place until September. That is well past a midsummer informal deadline set by Pelosi, D-Calif.

"I promised the president that we would have legislation out of the House before we went on an August break," Pelosi said earlier in the day. "That is still my goal."

Despite some success _ the nation's hospitals agreed to a cut of $155 billion in projected Medicare and Medicaid payments _ progress has been scant and internal differences magnified.

In general, any bill that emerges from Congress is expected to follow Obama's blueprint for reining in health care costs overall while extending coverage to 50 million who lack it.

Another objective is to make sure that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage or raise premiums to unaffordable levels to individuals with pre-existing medical conditions.

But literally hundreds of details are involved in drafting legislation, and gaining a consensus even among Democrats is proving to be remarkably _ if predictably _ difficult, despite their large majorities in both houses.

As an example, some Democrats are demanding legislation that permits the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies. Republicans overwhelmingly oppose such a plan, deeming it a stalking horse for universal government-run insurance, and many Democrats have concerns, as well.

Some Democrats prefer a plan for a nonprofit cooperative to take the place of government in competing with private companies. Others favor a government role only in cases in which consumers lack a choice in coverage.

Similarly, Democrats are divided on paying for the bill, some preferring more tax increases than others, some favoring more cuts in Medicare and Medicaid.

"We've just got a lot of question and the top of the list would be how to pay for it," said Rep. Marion Berry, D-Ark., one of the Blue Dogs.

"I don't think we have significant cost-containment mechanisms in the proposal yet," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. He said he favors provisions aimed at preventing overtreatment of patients and overpayments to doctors, hospitals and other providers.

A dispute over tax increases was at the core of upheaval in the Senate earlier in the week.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., and chairman of the Finance Committee, has been working for months with Republicans in hopes of gaining support for a bipartisan bill that can command 60 votes.

Efforts to raise money to pay for subsidizing the cost of insurance had focused on a tax on health care benefits for workers with high-cost coverage provided by their employers.

Baucus and Republican supporters argued it would also have tended to reduce the cost of health care overall, as well as offset the cost of the bill. But the Democratic leadership stepped in forcefully, citing poor public polling, opposition of organized labor and concerns about taxing middle-income workers.

WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the ...
WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the ...
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- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Nite everyone (even you flossophy).

I need to get some rest to help keep my health care costs down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

Night! Sleep well! Remember to dissent is American!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 AM on 07/10/2009
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Have fun in math class

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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nite nite, twas fun

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

DelawareVol

Sorry missed your reponse to my post earlier. I live in Murfreesboro,TN. Its just south of Nashville. I think that the Vols are gonna be ok due to our great recruiting staff. I think that Kiffen is going to do better than Obama has so far. GO VOLS!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 07/10/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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I figured you lived in Murfreesboro, TN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 AM on 07/10/2009
- FogBelter I'm a Fan of FogBelter 270 fans permalink
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So the Vichy Dems are revolting?

Wasn't that clear before now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 07/10/2009
- KDog76A I'm a Fan of KDog76A 18 fans permalink
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Here is what they are revolting against:

"These are not public works grants; they are community transformation grants,’’ said Anthony Coley, a spokesman for Kennedy, chairman of the Senate health committee whose healthcare bill includes the projects.

“If improving the lighting in a playground or clearing a walking path or a bike path or restoring a park are determined as needed by a community to create more opportunities for physical activity, we should not prohibit this from happening,’’ Coley said in a statement.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/07/09/in_health_bill_billions_for_parks_paths/

we shouldn't keep the healthcare money focused on bringing down healthcare costs, we should "Create more opportunities for physical activity" ---- as if the outside wasn't already free

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 07/10/2009
- ncmom54 I'm a Fan of ncmom54 57 fans permalink
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With so many in Congress serving the interests of corporate lobbyists over their constituents
it's time to retire the "all politics are local"
by reaching across state lines and supporting candidates who will work for the people.
because obviously their positions do affect us all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 AM on 07/10/2009
- fefo70 I'm a Fan of fefo70 12 fans permalink
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Single payer NOW! We're just as good as Turkey and Cyprus. Why do they have cheaper and better healthcare than we do? Where

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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Wow... when the Pr0gressives are touting Turkey and Cyprus, you know things are falling apart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 07/10/2009
- jlab I'm a Fan of jlab 92 fans permalink
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Oh, hi there, flossface! Gosh, I never got around to enjoying your silence. Now it's too late. Shame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 07/10/2009
- FogBelter I'm a Fan of FogBelter 270 fans permalink
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If the US Government wasn't as corrupt as a Banana Republic we would already have a Comprehensive Universal Single Payer Health Care system covering all Americans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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And we'd be just like Canada or the UK... where they import their doctors from developing nations, they ration services, and do medical tourism when they don't want to wait on long waiting lists...

I guess we should thank our lucky stars for some of that corruption.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 AM on 07/10/2009
- Melissa I'm a Fan of Melissa 24 fans permalink

We don't have the money to pay for this, China and India already own us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 AM on 07/10/2009
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India too?! Was Slumdog a propaganda film?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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And they don't like how we're being irresponsible with our budgets... perhaps we should listen to them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 AM on 07/10/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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KrugnacThe­Magnificen­t wrote:


"So we're looking at a whopping 4% reduction in overhead by implementing a Public option."


==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­==

No.

Health insurance Administrative costs:

Medicare: 5-6%

Plans covering companies with 1000 employees: 7%

Plans covering companies with 25 employees (majority of companies): 25%

Individual market: 30%

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/administrative_costs_in_health.html


Medicare covers 50 million and has admin costs at 5-6%. What do you think a public plan that covers 120 million would see their admin costs at? 2-3%? Probably.


So either you have a comprehension problem, are mathematically challenged, or you have desire to be intellectually honest.

Maybe a little of all 3.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 07/10/2009
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Okay, let's back up. You posted the other number. 12%. That's the average for ALL policies.

So, let's say we can implement single payer, and go from 12% insurance overhead down to 2%. That's a savings of 10%. Great.

Then next year, medical inflation goes up by 10%, as it's projected to increase over the next decade, and we're right back where we started.

Whoop-de-do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 AM on 07/10/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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12% to 2% for administrative costs is a reduction of 600% in administrative costs -- not 10%.

But that's just administrative costs. That doesn't include enormous sums of money hospitals and doctors spend arguing and working with many, many different insurance companies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 AM on 07/10/2009
- moUSAnMe I'm a Fan of moUSAnMe 16 fans permalink
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big pharma is calling the shots

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 AM on 07/10/2009
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Ok, I'll take the debate.

Medicare Budget 2009: $425.5 BILLION (increase of 6% from 2008)
Medicare covers 45.5 Million Americans
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2008pres/02/20080204a.html

120 million covered under Public Plan (per your post)
Current Medicare coverage 45.5 million people
120/45.5 = 2.64
2.64 x $425.5 Billion = $1.12 Trillion per year at current Medicare Admin costs

Even if I buy your estimate of decreasing Admin costs by 3%
$1.12 Trillion x 97% = $1.09 Trillion

That's over $1 Trillion a year! That's more that TARP

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 AM on 07/10/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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There's a very STU.PID analysis considering it covers people 65 AND OLDER!!!!!!!!


People who are 65 and oIder tend to be a lot sicker, don't you think, genius? Thus the reason it's so expensive.

Under a public plan, you would be insuring a much healthier (and cheaper) group of people.


Feel free to go back offering useless 3rd grade analysis.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

I suppose that its not a good thing to listen to the Founding Fathers should we.

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical­." Thomas Jefferson

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 AM on 07/10/2009
- moUSAnMe I'm a Fan of moUSAnMe 16 fans permalink
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i don't think they fore saw what was to come

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

Perhaps you should Reread the quotes.
I take the quote as against lobbists not against socialism. But Im sure that we can figure how they would have thought about socialism from thier writings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 AM on 07/10/2009
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To quote George Washington, "Lobbyists will be the bane of this country." Now there's a man who knew what was to come. Smart man, our first President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 AM on 07/10/2009
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williamg, only the 7% number is useful, because we only have government programs that cover large numbers of people.

Without a government plan that caters to individuals or small groups, it's impossible to calculate how much profiteering is going on there.

It's clear to me that private insurers are going a very good job at keeping their own overhead competitively low already for large groups, without the need for a public option to "keep them honest".

It's a ruse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 AM on 07/10/2009
- Ruh17 I'm a Fan of Ruh17 4 fans permalink

Can someone please tell me where the incentive to cure diseases is for drug companies? That would be killing a guaranteed revenue of trillions annually. Guaranteed. Forever. If they cure the disease, then it's vaccinations for everyone and then the revenue is gone. What motivations do they have to cure diseases?
And can someone tell me why this is the third time i have posted this without one getting through the moderator?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 07/10/2009
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Cheaper, public health-care will 'save' money. What part don't you right-wingers get? Less expensive is better for everyone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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keep reading this thread...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 07/10/2009
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I am on public health care an it is a nightmare. Do not spread lies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 07/10/2009
- Ruh17 I'm a Fan of Ruh17 4 fans permalink

I'm on public health care and i have zero complaints. Who's lying now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 AM on 07/10/2009
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I have had 9 surgeries on private insurance in 2 years without one complaint. Since going to government insurance I have been told I cannot take medication that I have taken for 2 years as it is not on the approved list. It is the number one medication for my condition. I cannot see any of my doctors and I am forced to go to the local health department. When I need to go to the specialist I must drive 2.5 hours. Part of my condition is I cannot drive long periods of time without pain. I cannot get an MRI that was scheduled prior to me going on disablitiy because the rules state I need to have more loss of motion first. Would you like to know more? How about my visits when I was bleeding from infection in my colon and they told me it was an upset stomach?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

Think socialism is such a great idea.
THINK AGAIN!!!

"The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficien­cy." Pope John Paul I

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 AM on 07/10/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Pope John Paul had his health care paid for by parishioners.


Talk about socialism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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And if the parishioners didn't like it, they could leave... and join another religion.

Can't say the same about s0cialism.­.. actually, people did flee, and they came to the US. Go figure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 07/10/2009
- rosal I'm a Fan of rosal 317 fans permalink
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The Pope is supported by his Catholics, he doesn't work. What a socialist!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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It's stunning how many Pr0gressives do not understand s0cialism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 07/10/2009
- Ruh17 I'm a Fan of Ruh17 4 fans permalink

"An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded. "
-Pope John Paul II

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 07/10/2009
- fairtaxnow I'm a Fan of fairtaxnow 9 fans permalink

By the end of this decade (2000 AD) we will live under the first One World Government that has ever existed in the society of nations ... a government with absolute authority to decide the basic issues of human survival. One world government is inevitable­." Pope John Paul II quoted by Malachi Martin in the book "The Keys of This Blood"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 07/10/2009
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Great, from a man who is opposed to birth control.

Yep I do think that socialism is a great idea. Germany has had universal health care since 1883 and is currently the worlds largest exporter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 07/10/2009
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 328 fans permalink
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Unfortunately their birthrate is severely depressed.­.. what good is the perfect society if no Germans will be around to enjoy it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 AM on 07/10/2009
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Simple. Do what the Republicans used to do. Pull their funding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 AM on 07/10/2009
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The Dems have done that. That is what helped start the Contra thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 AM on 07/10/2009
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Obama simply has to not sign a Bill that does not meet the criteria of a serious Public Option. There is no reason in the world why he has to take the blame for this. Just punt it until after the mid term elections when We The People have gotten rid of every stinkin' Conservative and Liberals at last run this country. We can do it. We elected Obama didn't we? His campaign was brilliant and we executed it smartly. This Country belongs to us. We have every right and indeed the obligation to get people elected that will do what we want them to do. But we have to work for it. If we don't do it somebody else will and that would be Lobbyists. IF we don't we have only ourselves to blame. Our Founding Fathers were right to set up a Republic that requires a participatory citizenry. That last part is our job.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 07/10/2009

Yes, please do wait until after the 2010 elections:

"Despite the results of the 2008 presidential election, Americans, by a 2-to-1 margin, say their political views in recent years have become more conservative rather than more liberal, 39% to 18%, with 42% saying they have not changed. While independents and Democrats most often say their views haven't changed, more members of all three major partisan groups indicate that their views have shifted to the right rather than to the left."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/121403/Special-Report-Ideologically-Moving.aspx?CSTS=alert

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 07/10/2009

Liberals will never run this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 07/10/2009
- Ruh17 I'm a Fan of Ruh17 4 fans permalink

Please Can someone tell me where the incentive to cure diseases is for drug companies? That would be killing a guaranteed revenue of trillions annually. Guaranteed. Forever. If they cure the disease, then it's vaccinations for everyone and then the revenue is gone. What motivations do they have to cure diseases?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 07/10/2009
- ddw13 I'm a Fan of ddw13 3 fans permalink

There's no way in hell this administration or anyone there after will ever be able to design a health care bill !!! What's the rush and or need to? Why, because it's nothing more than a power grab by this administration to control every aspect of your life and further reduce your freedom as an American Citizen. If this bill or anything remotely close to this bill is every passed consider your freedoms gone as everything you do will be strictly related and or considered a threat to your health and therefore the Gov't would be able to tell you no you can't drink beer any more, or you can't tan in the sun anymore, or eat more than on twinke/month, I could go on but you get the idea, I hope !
If you have been paying attention to what the POTUS does instead of what he says or visa versa he said several weeks ago that he will sign anything into law and all Congress has to do is get it to his desk. Obama doesn't care what the bill does, or says he just wants the power grab period end of story. I challenge anyone that opposes what I say to prove me and the rest who take my position wrong with real proof, published papers, or anything in the current 1300 pages + where is directly states in the proposed it's going to cut our cost immediately and improve the care we recieve immediately ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 07/10/2009
- Ruh17 I'm a Fan of Ruh17 4 fans permalink

Can someone tell me where the incentive to cure diseases is for drug companies? That would be killing a guaranteed revenue of trillions annually. Guaranteed. Forever. If they cure the disease, then it's vaccinations for everyone and then the revenue is gone. What motivations do they have to cure diseases?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 AM on 07/10/2009
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