House Dems Look At Taxing Rich For Health Care

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DAVID ESPO and ERICA WERNER | 07/ 9/09 11:43 PM | AP

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Vice President Joe Biden speaks about a White House deal with hospitals to help pay for President Barack Obama's overhaul of health care, Wednesday, July 8, 2009, in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in Washington. At left is Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)

WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the leadership was drafting on a fast track.

The emerging bill "lacks a number of elements essential to preserving what works and fixing what is broken," 40 members of the Blue Dog Coalition of moderate to conservative Democrats wrote party leaders. To win their support, they said, any legislation would need to be much more aggressive in reining in health care costs as well as in addressing a disparity in Medicare payments they said adversely affects rural providers.

A group of the moderates met into early evening with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and arranged to sit down with committee chairmen on Friday to go over proposed changes. Officials said the public release of the bill, originally set for Friday, would occur no earlier than Monday.

It was the second setback in three days for President Barack Obama's top domestic priority, although it was unclear whether it would amount to anything more than a brief delay for a bill of enormous complexity and controversy.

There was upheaval earlier in the week in the Senate, where the Democratic leadership is intent on scuttling a proposed tax on health care benefits that has long been key to attempts at a bipartisan compromise. At the same time, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and others went out of their way during the day to emphasize eagerness for Republican support.

As an alternative to the benefits tax, Democrats are considering raising taxes on wealthy investors to help pay for health care legislation, along with numerous other options, according to officials who spoke on condition of anonymity. The proposal to extend the current 1.45 percent Medicare payroll tax to capital gains earned by high-income taxpayers would bring in an estimated $100 billion over 10 years.

In the House, Hoyer sought to minimize the day's developments, which occurred as Democrats on one committee were making final decisions on provisions to pay for the legislation.

"Let me make it very clear that everybody in that room thinks we ought to pass health care reform," the Maryland Democrat said.

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One conservative Democrat, Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., said he believes no House vote should take place until September. That is well past a midsummer informal deadline set by Pelosi, D-Calif.

"I promised the president that we would have legislation out of the House before we went on an August break," Pelosi said earlier in the day. "That is still my goal."

Despite some success _ the nation's hospitals agreed to a cut of $155 billion in projected Medicare and Medicaid payments _ progress has been scant and internal differences magnified.

In general, any bill that emerges from Congress is expected to follow Obama's blueprint for reining in health care costs overall while extending coverage to 50 million who lack it.

Another objective is to make sure that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage or raise premiums to unaffordable levels to individuals with pre-existing medical conditions.

But literally hundreds of details are involved in drafting legislation, and gaining a consensus even among Democrats is proving to be remarkably _ if predictably _ difficult, despite their large majorities in both houses.

As an example, some Democrats are demanding legislation that permits the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies. Republicans overwhelmingly oppose such a plan, deeming it a stalking horse for universal government-run insurance, and many Democrats have concerns, as well.

Some Democrats prefer a plan for a nonprofit cooperative to take the place of government in competing with private companies. Others favor a government role only in cases in which consumers lack a choice in coverage.

Similarly, Democrats are divided on paying for the bill, some preferring more tax increases than others, some favoring more cuts in Medicare and Medicaid.

"We've just got a lot of question and the top of the list would be how to pay for it," said Rep. Marion Berry, D-Ark., one of the Blue Dogs.

"I don't think we have significant cost-containment mechanisms in the proposal yet," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. He said he favors provisions aimed at preventing overtreatment of patients and overpayments to doctors, hospitals and other providers.

A dispute over tax increases was at the core of upheaval in the Senate earlier in the week.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., and chairman of the Finance Committee, has been working for months with Republicans in hopes of gaining support for a bipartisan bill that can command 60 votes.

Efforts to raise money to pay for subsidizing the cost of insurance had focused on a tax on health care benefits for workers with high-cost coverage provided by their employers.

Baucus and Republican supporters argued it would also have tended to reduce the cost of health care overall, as well as offset the cost of the bill. But the Democratic leadership stepped in forcefully, citing poor public polling, opposition of organized labor and concerns about taxing middle-income workers.

WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the ...
WASHINGTON — The drive to remake the nation's health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats demanded changes in legislation the ...
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For most of us who've been moderates -defined & active as defined- the reality of USA Critical Condition is Political Corruption­:Accountin­g Tricks ( like percentages of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security costs to tax payers annually- a joke of sleight-of-pen lies);our collective tax money thrown around at other nations, adding their political corruption to USA political corruption & doing nothing for over a century to change the stations of Third World peoples; that save 15 nations trillions upon trillions by letting USA average citizens stock the WORLD's military expenditures -& resulting in killing & horribly maiming more of our uniformed & non-uniformed national treasures than the treasures from their countries, however bad loss of any country's children is. We -the middle class- are Last on the list of politicians' " World's People-Fir­st-in-Line for :"Preservation of Life- Best of Health- USA & personal Safety- Honestly Earned ,Real Dollars Financial & Property Protection- & Sovereign Border Guaranteed Security." These Moderates had better start with publicly line-item,provider transparent with highly-reduced cost public health coverage that EXPOSES the USA corporate gouging;the lack of Market -Driven, Free-trade bidding & contracting by Drug Manufacturers & Pharmacies;billions charged by docs & hospitals for border-crossing criminals here to live-off us; Insurance Cos. administrative & lobbyist' stealing via Congress our trillions; government­-contracte­d suppliers of medical devices jacked-up to five & ten times their retail prices elsewhere & even in US discount stores.Get it cleaned-up & exposed or get out of our way before you destroy the USA middle class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 PM on 07/10/2009

Many of us have been moderating our views as we grew, lived & learned by ,study,reading pros & cons of issues that affect us all; research analyzed & assessed them logically as they afffected our country, ancestors & us. We have opinions that are NOT based on how we "FEEL" or on Archie Bunker and Move On fervor drummed up by political opportunists and their bagmen and women. We actually can agree with an Archie Bunker or a Move On issue based on the reality of a knowledge base &, especially for the more senior of us, on experiential, empirical bases.
As for Mr.Bayh, his political ambitions bleed thorough the TV screen as he pretends to be a Moderate pol. So many of the congress scrambling for history book fame ( more will make the history infamy list) have seized the label with no integrity driving them. It is an issue by issue philosophy, not a matter of money or size of government solely nor a matter of political party or character's charisma or their vows made then broken with doubletalk cop-outs. Our # one critically­-sick,near terminal societal issue is POLITICALC­ORRUPTION, stupids. MEANING ALL OF THEM.lOOK AT "Health Care" CORPORATIONS;They must be cleaned out, made public. USA Health Care programs are Corrupt beyond criminal. They're devilish & perpetuated by these demagogue Moderates, as well as the rest:Baucu­s,Grassley­, McConnell,Dodd, Ensign, Reid,gangsters all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 07/10/2009

First, the so-called "moderate" Democrats ( and R's and Ind's) have no will to understand or admit to understanding of the evolution of "moderate" socio-political THINKING voters. As for Mr.Bayh, his political ambitions bleed thorough the TV screen as he pretends to be a Moderate pol. So many of the congress scrambling for history book fame ( more will make the history infamy list) have seized the label with no integrity driving them. It is an issue by issue philosophy, not a matter of money or size of government solely nor a matter of political party or character's charisma or their vows made then broken with doubletalk cop-outs. Our # one critically­-sick,near terminal societal issue is POLITICALC­ORRUPTION, stupids. MEANING ALL OF THEM.lOOK AT "Health Care" CORPORATIONS;They must be cleaned out, made public. USA Health Care programs are Corrupt beyond criminal. They're devilish & perpetuated by these demagogue Moderates, as well as the rest:Baucu­s,Grassley­, McConnell,Dodd, Ensign, Reid,gangsters all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 07/10/2009

Suggestions:
Close all the loopholes for the companies that move their corporate address offshore in order to avoid paying their taxes here. They will have to quit the shenanigens and pay their share. Use that money for Healthcare.

Give all those people who have illegal untaxed accounts in a Swiss Bank a specified time to bring it back to the U.S. and pay their taxes on it.

Tax all manufactured goods being imported from countries that pay no benefits an amount equal to the benefit amount. They sure figure this cost on automobiles, so they can do it on other things.

Also, tax the imported goods from countries that do not sign on to the G8 Global Initiative.

Then many corporations will bring their manufacturing back, or other people will be able to start-up manufacturing here that will create jobs, people will pay taxes and will lower the jobless rate and lower the cost of Unemployment benefits or Medicaid. It is all really simple.

There is a lot of fraud in Medicare. Root it out!
Make changes to the Medicare D bill which was passed mainly to benefit the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries.
Fine the Healthcare Industry for using millions of premium payment dollars to lobby lawmakers.
Yiou know very well they will really have to deny benefits to cover this travesty. They made the Unions stop using members dues for political purposes, so companies should not use premium payments to lobby

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 07/10/2009

doc, I appreciate some logic being inserted into the discussion regarding budgetary considerations, however do you really want the government that involved in you day-to-day life. I can see it now...April 15th 2010, along with my 1040 form I also file my personal annual healthcare diary so I can avoid additional "health" taxes. Seriously, that sounds almost as ridiculous as taxing the air we breathe. Oops, hopefully the EPA is not a HuffPo reader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 07/09/2009
- Firbolg I'm a Fan of Firbolg 38 fans permalink
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I’d like to think that this feuding between the Capital Hillbillies – the McDemocrats and the O’Democrats - would lead to them wiping each other out. Unfortunately it more likely to lead to atrocious legislation rushed through to meet some self-imposed meaningless deadline and we are the ones that will be the collateral damage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 07/09/2009
- Firbolg I'm a Fan of Firbolg 38 fans permalink
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The article states “Another objective is to make sure that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage or raise premiums to unaffordable levels to individuals with pre-existing medical conditions.” It’s this kind of senseless drivel that makes this debate so confusing and annoying.
“Insurance” that has to cover a pre-existing condition without raising premiums is not “insurance” by any stretch. Insurance is for risk, not certainty. Insurance must make a profit to continue to be available, That's why it is unsuitable to cover healthcare which everyone has a 100% chance of needing at some stage in their life.
Call it “medical costs reimbursements” or “medical welfare”, or even "multiple payer" if "single payer" makes you retch, anything you like, but it is not insurance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 07/09/2009
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We need more time! For focus groups and polling data. In the meantime the leaves just keep piling up. Making sure every American has access to high quality leaf pick-up is one of the most important challenges of our time. The number of leaf encumbered Americans is growing, lawn decay is skyrocketing, and more people are being denied leaf pick-up every day. A moral imperative by any measure, a better system is also essential to rebuilding our economy -- we want to make leaf pick-up work for people and businesses, not just for lawn care conglomerates and the wealthy.

YES WE CAN!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 07/09/2009
- sufi66 I'm a Fan of sufi66 30 fans permalink
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And if you believe the Dems/Obama have the courage to do something different and critically essential for all the people, then I have a Bridge to Nowhere to sell you.

These are rantings right before the Dems sell out the progressives in the party. like a boxer feigning left when he intends to go right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 PM on 07/09/2009
- MESGAIN26 I'm a Fan of MESGAIN26 11 fans permalink

these conservative dems don't represent real dems they never have so ur barking up the wrong tree

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 07/09/2009
- naschkatze I'm a Fan of naschkatze 85 fans permalink

I go with sufi66: the House Democrats and Senate Democrats just want this cup to pass from them because they are so in the clutches of health care industry. I have not a one of them come out and go after the real culprits. The Democrats as a whole are happy the Blue Dawgs are bollixing up the works.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 07/09/2009
- naschkatze I'm a Fan of naschkatze 85 fans permalink

have HEARD not a one

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 07/09/2009
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I have some real concerns about this method of financing health care reform. As background, I am a physician in favor of single-payer.
While it is clear that the fiscal reality is that additional revenue will be needed to cover the nation's uninsured, any surtax should be balanced with corresponding surtaxes on behaviors that cause a significant strain on the health care system. For example, increased federal taxes on tobacco products, alcohol, and processed food items associated with obesity. I also think that fuel taxes should be included, as higher fuel prices correspond with less driving/more walking.
The point is this: raising taxes to pay for health care without using taxes to shape health-related behaviors is like trying to draw a hot bath with the drain open - not only will you never fill the tub, but eventually you'll run out of hot water.
People who "play by the rules" - those avoid tobacco, excessive alcohol use, and excessive sun; those who exercise and eating healthy foods - may find it unjust to be taxed to pay for the common health problems associated with those things they avoid (e.g., tobacco-related emphysema and lung cancers, obesity, coronary artery disease, end stage liver disease, type 2 diabetes, obesity-related joint disease, trauma related to drunk driving, etc.).
Any increases in taxes on individuals should be paired with increased taxes on behaviors and products that cause substantial costs to the health care system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 07/09/2009
- Firbolg I'm a Fan of Firbolg 38 fans permalink
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Excellent post doctor or, if you will pardon the pun, perfect prescription based on the symptoms.
Well articulated and coherent and complete.
Unfortunately totally indigestible by our elected representatives and likely to cause severe side effects in the upper management reaches of the health industrial complex.
Can you prescribe a placebo instead, please? It’s what everyone else is offering.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 07/09/2009
- abbyrose86 I'm a Fan of abbyrose86 220 fans permalink
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Although, Doc you are correct that lifestyle plays a PART in an individual's overall health, it isn't the only factor that determines your health and what medical issues a person will encounter in their lifetime and YOU of all people KNOW should know better than to perpetrate a half truth.

Genetics plays a pivotal role as well, as does the environment. DO NOT MISLEAD people with half truths. SO children born with health issues are to blame for their chronic health problems? People exposed throughout the industrial age (the turn of the century until now) to carcinogens in the water, air and earth are singularly responsible for their ill health? In addition, some health issues do not show up until years after exposure....well after lifestyle changes may have been made.

As to your comment about 'common" issues...well, Doctor, many people have issues other than those that are "common", which causes them to seek health care. Such as Lupus, Epilepsy, Asthma, various types of cancer, MS, CF to name but a few chronic and serious ailments that we still do not have the scientific knowledge of to determine exactly what causes the illness. So to make such a sweeping, ignorant statement blaming lifestyle for all health issues (which if you read your post, is your implication) is beyond arrogant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 07/09/2009
- thehoopoe I'm a Fan of thehoopoe 8 fans permalink

You've overeacted. The Doctor is not blaming all ill people for their illnesses. He is saying that there must also be incentives to encourage illness prevention. These will have lasting consequences.

The illnesses he lists are often preventable or reducible through lifestyle changes. A doctor friend from Ecuador doing a residency told me once how he could never have imagined seeing young people with type 2 diabetes and hypertension. AS these are conditions which affect genetically inclined people in middle age and beyond.Then he came to this country to work in a county hospital and couldn't believe his eyes.

I know Doctors who won't work with a patient unless the patient does as told, quit smoking / drinking / exercise etc. This is the Doctor's prescription but many people refuse. How are they supposed to work when even the patient doesn't really want to be cured?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 AM on 07/10/2009
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 63 fans permalink
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I am sick of these articles and the BS that is coming from these idiots in Congress. You don't have to slash Medicare and Medicaid. You pass single payer Medicaid for All. And this constant garbage that is spewed about the 50 million uninsured and how to cover them, it's ridiculous. What is wrong with these people? Sit all these Congress critters in a theater and make them watch "Sicko." Then make them go to healthcare.gov and read the stories there. The stories are equally insured and uninsured.

I can go out tomorrow and get Healthy New York tomorrow for about $259 a month for the "better package." That means I'm insured. But because of the co-pays and the deductibles I could not afford to use this plan and I would have to forget about most of the things I do now to try to keep healthy, so I don't have to be among the insured crowd that ends up taking a boatload of pharmaceuticals every day.

Health care reform is not about just 50 million uninsured. It's about everybody, it's about equality in health care for all. What is wrong with you people? Oh, that's right, you're tripping over yourselves trying to figure out how to keep the insurance companies front and center.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 07/09/2009
- sufi66 I'm a Fan of sufi66 30 fans permalink
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Sadly, they won't pass decent health insurance for all because they (Democrats and Republicans) get campaign money from the enemies of reform.

It's as simple as that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 07/09/2009

You got right to the heart of the issue. Very good!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 07/10/2009
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