New York Times:
For environmental activists like Jessica Miller, 31, the passage of a major climate bill by the House last month should have been cause for euphoria. Instead she felt cheated.
A look at Barack Obama's environmental platform and record | How ...
Obama's Environmental Test - WSJ.com
Environmentalists baffled by Obama's strategy - Los Angeles Times
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And just where are they going to turn to? The republicans? LOL!!!! Where, seriously, are they going to go? Not vote? LOL!?!?!?
What's so funny, 'Chuckles'?
Do you think you're breathing different air than everyone else? You got different food and water sources than the rest of us?
I voted Green Party, as all liberals should.
The Republican Party is completely owned by the big corporations. The Democratic Party is 99% owned by the big corporations.
It's time for voters to break free.
I think it's, utterly, ridiculous to say that you will turn your back on Obama when there is no where to turn... you vote green and you may as well vote for the republicans, because splitting the left will leave you with another republican government, not voting at all will do the same... and do you think, for one second, the republicans will do anything for the environment? We're in this mess because of the republicans and bought off democrats. You will either find a compromise and keep pushing Obama for tougher legislation and vote him in a second term so he can fulfill it, or you will have nothing...
Not all of us who have dedicated our lives to preserving the environment think that cap and trade is a good idea.
I always suspected that this push for limiting CO2 would lead people to make short-sighted decisions in a very complicated inter-connected system that would just end up putting more money in the pockets of the big corporations.
The problem needs to be addressed in a more systemic way. Many, many different strategies all working together:
More wind and solar where practical
Smart building design to reduce heating and cooling costs
Rail and public transportation
Switch to slower, smaller electric cars where feasible..
Move away from consumerism (like cheap instantly broken Chinese junk)
etc.
you forgot soot paiagirl..
http://www
Dear fumes, it is a pleasure to remind you: "I always understand your point about soot, keep remind it for everyone."
PaieGirl, the ideas in your third paragraph are ones I agree with, however, cap and trade is a START, not a be-all-and-end-all. In addition, outside of a dictatorship politics is about compromise. Getting cap and trade was a compromise, and one that barely passed. To get greener solutions we need greener senators and representatives.
I can see why liberals would be happy with this bill, and environmentalists would not. There's nothing environmental about this act, it's all about increasing the size of government, the control of another sector of the economy, and increased taxation. Who cares what it's for: whatever we can get the suckers to buy off on. Healthcare is next!!! Now that they've compromised away all the health care issues in it, but kept the increased government and taxes, now they can pass it.
Yes, bigger government is terrifying because the private sector has absolutely PROVEN they are far better able to handle everything so that all comes out best for the welfare of the people.
I understand their anger but they are being unreasonable. Even with all those compromises it BARELY PASSED. That is just how difficult it will be.
Silly person, concessions were given to get the votes of people who did _not_ vote for it. Why "compromise" with them when they won't take the compromise?
.
"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything." - Alexander Hamilton
Wonder how Alexander would deal with THIS Congress?
Well Said. Exactly the situation here.
Typical of all the PRogressive critiques they turn on him for being what he said he was going to be. Some of you all still dont get it. The reason why Bush was a disaster was because he did NOT compromise he did everything his way to one extreme and basically you want Obama to do the same thing to the other extreme and he is not like that he was never like that.
thank you carol..
why you had to point out the obvious is beyond me!
I'm sure it is.
say freelyb..
you seem bright enough to answer this hypothetical:
if there were no CO2 whatsoever
would evaporation of H2O still occur?
In an interview last month, Obama defended the House bill as “a good start.” Referring to European leaders & others who said the bill was not strong enough, Obama said, “We don’t want to make the best the enemy of the good. What we're doing is changing the political conversation and the incentive structures for businesses in this country.”
For some environmental groups & individuals, the bill’s perceived shortcomings — like generous pollution allowances to coal utilities & the usurping of the federal EPA’s regulatory authority over carbon emissions — were more than mere setbacks.
“This bill was worse than what we were expecting, even knowing we wouldn’t get the best bill,” said Nick Berning, a spokesman for Friends of the Earth. The overriding of the E.P.A.’s regulatory authority over carbon emissions was particularly startling, Mr. Berning said. The president clearly shares the blame, he said, adding, “He is not engaged enough.”
On the campaign trail, Mr. Obama used forceful and direct language on climate change, calling carbon emissions from human activity an “immediate threat” to the climate. His environmental critics say they miss that urgent tone.
“He was far too quiet during the House debate,” said Jessy Tolkan, the executive director of the Energy Action Coalition, a youth group in Washington that campaigns for clean energy. “He needs to live up to the promises he made to us when we poured our heart and soul into electing him.”
==========
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
Obama's taken his family on a European & African summer vacation while America sizzles to death.
So far I can't think of any bill that Obama hasn't done this on. The bankruptcy bill, which died, thanks to his silence, the credit card bill -- giveaway to the banksters and not much for consumers.
For those who think that Obama's compromises are better than no compromise from Bush, make the attempt to educate yourself on what is going on. These compromises are happening because the corporate lobbies are more powerful than any group working on behalf of the citizens.
Fumes, you obviously do not see what the end result of these bills truly mean for average Americans, but it's very possible you are one of the upper elite. Everything that Obama is compromising on is in the favor of big business and Wall Street, period. When Obama is not doing his best to maintain the status quo he is continuing Bush policies like mountaintop mining.
Typical of all lukewarm comments from moderates, your perspective does not take into account the importance of differentiating between better ideas and lesser ones. If Bush's policy ideas exhibited any thought for scientific and economic realities or for the common good at all, Republicans would still be in office. Bullheadedness is a good thing in the service of good causes. By contrast, Obama recognized and promised to support good causes. He is well aware of the reality and extent of environmental degradation, of the corruption inherent in our politics, and of the unsustainability and unfairness of our healthcare system. But his weak-will in the face of Blue Dogs and Red Dinosaurs is simply without excuse. Don't tell me I don't get it when you obviously don't know enough to get worked up about anything that's actually taking place. Tend to your knitting.
We will lose enough jobs to china thanks to cap and trade
if we had followed this we may as well go back to the 16th century
In case you haven't noticed, we've ALREADY lost all our jobs to ch.ina! It's time to build our OWN industry, right here using renewable energy sources. Let the dinosaurs di.e, already!
Yeah, take a stroll through Wal-Mart or Macy's and look at the labels.
The best used to be made here and could be again.
No, murphy, we still have a few left. The oil and gas industry employs thousands and thousands of people, at least it will until Waxman passes. That'll pretty much wipe out the domestic O&G production. The dems won't stop until there is nothing left but government, the ultimate protector, employer, provider of entitlements.
It's too late; it's already happened.
Drastic times call for drastic action.
I recommend single person carts on roads without intersections. Study physics.
Say no to carbon regulation
Why?
Dear MurphySinlaw, properties of water are more important than all GHG including carbon dioxide and actually cool the air.
It's a waste of time. Humans are going to burn hydrocarbons. One third of the planet, China and India, are pretty in our face about it.
Better to spend time and money on learning how to cost effectively get it out of the air rather than on dead loss windmills and solar panels.
Coz it's a waste of time, humans are going to keep burning hydrocarbons. Don't look now, but human life expectancy is up 70 percent since 1900 when most of the hydrocarbon burning started in a big way.
We must reevaluate science of Global Warming.
Al Gore write good book earth in the balance, 1992. He is good writer and provide good points about GHG role in nature. He and scientists who adviced to him have their right to make their mistakes.
Al Gore politisize science of GW. He make his vision absolute and was first who write: "DEBATE IS OVER!"
As I see the most dangerous his achievement that mass media almost agreed with his point:
“…when 98 percent of the scientists in a given field share one view and 2 percent disagree, both viewpoints are sometimes presented in a format in which each appears equally credible.” Here politician’s point of view is “winning, if percentage prevail.”
In science most often genius of one man confront millions, who think different. Al Gore wrote about Galileo: “Even he had had to bend to the convention of his day.” Ironically with his percentages as making decisions, who are right, he came close to judges of Galileo.
“Indeed, sometimes the remaining uncertainties are cynically used by partisans of the status quo for the express purpose of preventing the coalescence of public support for action.”
As politician he win, as scientist he is completelly wrong.
OUR GOVERNMENT SUPPORTS HIS VISSION AND THIS IS DANGEROUS.
We must take our earth back out of the hands of demonic corporate greed, destruction benefiting the few and harming the many .
Why do countries with the biggest corporations have the highest life expectancies?
Without Big Energy and Big Pharma we'd be miserable and have an average life span of 40 years.
Dear AngieMom57, we need energy to live as people, not animal, what you have to offer to heat houses, to make electricity, etc.
Before fighting for revolution, you must offer something for energy, like Google in information tecnology. Otherwise your fighting will bring more harm, than good things.
YES!
Re: "In science most often genius of one man confront millions, who think different.
The genius who can - with a theorem or hypothesis whose provability is beyond dispute - disprove the concerns over global warming has not as yet appeared on the scene.
Meanwhile, I for one advocate assuming that the empirical evidence is sufficient cause for concern; I am not one to believe that the many who say it is daytime should be overruled by the few who live in a basement.
omg!!!
you're really scared of that devil-gas CO2..
here.. you need one of these lol..
http://www
Dear ibsteve2u, you google mostly what is more convinient to you.
What you know about properties of water from high school?
I will remind to you:
Water vapor is greenhouse gas. Al Gore wrtote that GHG will heat the air, it heat will increase amount of watervapor in the air, which as GHG will increase temperature of the air.
It need 539 kcal to evaporate 1 kg of water. Water vapor is invisible gas. What we see are water DROPLETS in form of fog, clouds and particles which all around atmosphere mostly responsible for visibility.
Water vapor is lighter than most gases in the air and has tendency to go up to cloud level, it transport heat of evaporation to 2-7 miles close to space. When they condensed in clouds they released the same amount of energy, but this energy more easely escape to space.
Clouds reflect back to space more than 70-90% of direct sun radiation, snow is doing the same.
If you will think about these properties of water, maybe you will start to think: "GHG are important, but properties of water actually cool the air. It is cheaper to make more water vapor in the world, than cut emissions of GHG."
Water vapor is not a FORCING. water vapor does not create warmer temp's. CO2 and sunlight warm the earth and create water vapor.
that's the difference.
387 ppms and rising faster now coupled with this year El nino will make this next year planetary temp the warmest in history. and there are great consequences of this trend that we do not even know about yet.
Cause and effect - if you think the little thin 6 miles of atmosphere can continue as everyone's OPEN SEWER with cause and effect you are retarded.
I agree with Obamas words: let not the best become the enemy of the good.
219 - 212 is pretty tight- and I am very happy that at least SOMETHING starts to move in the right direction.
I am equally happy if Greenpeace, the youth and so on go on pushing and force him and the House to go further - all of this is required. Equally important are also the grassroots movements throughout the country.
We are all in this and we are all responsible for it, not only President Obama.
"We are all in this and we are all responsible for it, not only President Obama."
Yes, agreed.
REMEMBER we are dealing with a lazy @$$ prescription drug culture.
Not to worry - the way things are going, the ability to pay somebody to write those prescriptions will soon disappear.
On the plus side, that will decrease the estrogen loading of America's waterways.
Everything is bound together..
thanks thanksmatt
I hear people saying "I voted for the president, I canvassed for him, but we just haven’t seen leadership from him". I agree. Obama has focused to much on "Bipartisanship" and compromise. Thats not leadership!!!!. Someone has to make the decision. Someone has to set the tone, and basically be the "decider". Decisions cannot be made by a group, and it just so happens that our Congressional deciders contains hundreds of people, all with differing views and agendas. Yes, we should pressure Obama, but more so, we should get the Democrats to stop being scared and do the peoples will. The seemed to have no problem supporting the Bush failures during the last 8 years (out of fear), so lets put more fear into them. I voted for them too, but now and as always, Democrats are shrinking violets on the tough issues. They want concensus and bipartisanship so that it gives them political cover and deniability in the next election. That is NOT leadership, but we keep reelecting the same idiots for years, against our interests. At least Republicans make their screwed up decisions in unison..
ahem..
define: ''leadership''
is it a) omnipotence
or b) compromise
God, that one is tough...
It's knowing when NOT to compromise.
Cough, cough...
It's neither. Leadership is a commitment into which you
a) put all your efforts and vision in to finding the best solutions for the problems at hand from the best evidence you can find, then
b) standing behind your decisions until they either become reality, or until you can't stand up anymore.
Thank - you Andy for saying this! Lots of people are feeling let down. This is only increasing cynicism.
I have been saying similar things and many people try to ignore the emerging trends. We wanted a REFORMER - what did we actually get?
Bills are not passed by the "leader". It takes the Congress & Senate. The leader needs to lead them.
all those believing in omnipotence say aye..
Do you know other words?
The headline and article is prejudicial.
Scientists are concerned that Obama is being too weak in making the case that agressive action is needed now to stop people from unnecessary suffering and dying.
There is nothing starry eyed about that.
POTUS Obama has said in countless speeches that it is not about him, if we want change we must stand up and organize!
Organize we will!
http://www
You and Kucinich and the seven others that voted for him.
Kuchinich and AngieMom57 have evolved so far beyond you that you can't even begin to grasp it, can you?
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First Posted: 07-10-09 10:19 PM | Updated: 08-10-09 05:12 AM