Gay Couple Detained After Kissing On Plaza Owned By Mormon Church

SALT LAKE CITY — A gay couple say they were detained by security guards on a plaza owned by the Mormon church and later cited by police, claiming it stemmed from a kiss on the cheek.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that the men became argumentative and refused to leave after being asked to stop their "inappropriate behavior." The men say they were targeted because they are gay.

Matt Aune said he and his partner, Derek Jones, were walking home from a concert nearby on Thursday night, cutting through the plaza near the Salt Lake City Mormon temple.

Aune, 28, said he gave Jones, 25, a hug and kiss and that the two were then approached by a security guard, who asked them to leave, telling them they were being inappropriate and that public displays of affection aren't allowed on the property. He said other guards arrived and the men were handcuffed.

"We asked what we were doing wrong," Aune told The Associated Press.

Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said in a statement Friday that the men were "politely asked to stop engaging in inappropriate behavior _ just as any other couple would have been."

"They became argumentative and used profanity and refused to leave the property," she said. The church did not immediately respond to a request for more comment.

Police later arrived and both men were cited with misdemeanor trespassing, Salt Lake City Police Sgt. Robin Snyder said.

"It doesn't matter what they were asked to leave for," Snyder said. "If they are asked to leave and don't they are ... trespassing."

The church has been the target of protests over its support of a ban on gay marriage in California.

Comments

[VoiceOfConcern]

Perhaps this incident will show that LDS is not a proper Steward for at stretch of Market Street & SLC should exercise Eminent Domain & reacquire that land,,,,

[LintLass]

At least if they feel the need to put a Rent-a-Cop Taliban on a public way, it does lead to those questions, yeah.

[VoiceOfConcern]

Q: Do Public Displays of Affection qualify as Speech aka Freedom of Expression?
Q: What are the limits on the manner in which a property owner can limit Free Expression?

[sagcat]

absent state action, there is no first amendment issue.

[Smokin32]

Public displays "could" be forms of expression yes, but with established limitations like decency laws or obscenity laws.

There are virtually no limits on which a property owner can limit free speech. For example here in Huffington Post all posts and replys are monitored and anything they dont like will not get put up. The first amendment applies to what the government can do to prevent free speech which is basically almost nothing. So if this occurred on a public street and a police officer decided to stop it, it "could" be a free speech issue, since its on private property its really not. Its a case of false imprisonment and bigotry.

[VoiceOfConcern]

1) Hugging & kiss on cheek is typically considered G-rated and would fall well within "established limitations like decency laws or obscenity laws"

2) This particular property used to be a public street. It was transferred to a private property status, under much controversy... which leads me to...

Perhaps this incident will show that LDS is not a proper Steward for at stretch of Market Street & SLC should exercise Eminent Domain & reacquire that land...

[endecott]

What kind of church and religion is this that does not allow public displays of affection? We are not talking about sex we are talking about a kiss here, supposedly a kiss on the cheek to boot. Is a hug not okay either? Holding hands?I thought religion was supposed to be about Love and bringing out and promoting the better nature and aspirations of humans. It seems there are some misplaced priorities in the Mormon church that need to bee examined and changed.

[Smokin32]

I'm really surprised not more people are talking about the false imprisonment but rather the homophobia of Mormons (surprise surprise).

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS PEOPLE! False imprisonment is a serious crime!

"Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving."

False imprisonment is a tort, and possibly a crime, wherein a person is intentionally confined without legal authority.

Seriously people, know you rights and know that nobody has the right to detain you against your will. Make sure to say, "you are detaining me against my will" and make sure this is clear if you are ever prevent from going ANYWHERE.

[GreyWolfe]

What you need to understand is in the state of Utah, Mormon officials, like their own private police department at the temple, are above the law. The Constitution protects them from the courts, at least they see it that way and unless you have the money to fight it, it will stay that way.

[Smokin32]

Its worth fighting. It only takes one large punative judgment to make a nice incentive to respect basic human rights, .... human rights even more fundamentally obvious than gay rights.

[jmidnightwarrior]

Grey, call it what it is. Here in Utah, they are referred to as the 'Mormon Mafia', and have been for decades. This is whether they are those doing security work on church property, or doing body guard work for the General Authorities.

[loutreverte]

You make a good point. After reading about this incident, I wondered about the legality of hired security handcuffing people too.

[Z-Liberator]

Religious Prosecution?

[mirepoix75]

When I first read this I thought these guys were just out to cause trouble and making a scene on legitimate church property and I can understand that. If the mormons buy Main street I don't care what you call it after that, it's still Main street. As far as I am concerned anyone should be allowed to hold hands and kiss the one they love on any Main street in this country. FTM

[MikeHermit]

And it is still Main Street to many of us. In fact it is called the Main Street Plaza even by the LDS church.

[loutreverte]

Main Street, U.S.A. owned by a religious group. Scary. I wonder how the people defending this as legitimate would feel if a Muslim group owned once-public streets near a mosque?

[directfitz]

To find out the truth check the security cameras. That whole plaza was covered in security cameras in the 1970's when I lived in SLC. I saw security photos of crew members working on Mr. Kruger's Christmas movie. Can The Church as they refer to themselves in Utah be forced to release the security tapes?

[GreyWolfe]

The plaza in question did not exist in the 1970's, it was called Main Street then. It is a good idea to ask for the security video as I'm sure it exists. What people need to realize is this area is a pedestrian lane that used to be a busy city street. The Mormon church bought it from the city and changed it to a plaza where people walk from one busy city street to another.

Let them release video of the incident. Lets see what happened. I'll bet it isn't as innocent as the two men say but not as clear cut as church security says either.

[jnutlfam2]

A whole lotta "I know! I know!" from a bunch of people who think they know...sad/

[tantrictim]

i can hardly wait for mittens to run for the gop in 2012...its gonna be a mormon massacre in america (pejoratively speaking)

[BPCentrisAmerican]

The Christians already tried that in Missouri in the 1860s, they hung Mormons.

It's curious to me how our religious lives have more freedom than our personal lives. I also find it curious that churches protected by 'freedom of religion' are more than willing to deny individual's civil rights when they don't of approve of what there doing.

[Siara]

And now the Mormons have decided to pass that great historical tradition on by hassling another minority lifestyle group. Touching. Enlightened.

[Ray46]

Maybe the Gays and Lesbians should organize massive kiss-ins (similar to a sit-in) at all the churches governments, restaurants, etc. that appose their rights.

[GayGrandpa]

Maybe so indeed.

[Z-Liberator]

Yes! I will most definitely kiss Lesbian to defy the church!

[jjfaux]

There is no separation of church and state in the USA. There is a non-establishment clause that says we cannot establish a specific church as the official church or official religion of the United States. It doesn't mean that religious groups or even hardcore atheist groups cannot get involved in US politics.
Religious groups will always be a source of support for social movements. They were the main supporters of the anti-slavery movement, the civil rights movement was lead by church pastors, some churches supported prohibition, others did not. In Eastern Europe, they were involved in organizing the people to bring down communism. In Africa, the churches are the main providers of social aid, building schools, hospitals and introducing successful programs to fight the spread of HIV that match the local culture and not programs meant for liberal urban gay secular populations. The result: Uganda which uses a Church backed approach has reduced HIV from a 20 to a 5% infection rate while South Africa which uses the Condoms approach has actually seen a rise in HIV and now has a 35% infection rate. The same is true in Asia. Thailand vs the Phillipines is the best example. Basically Churches need to get involved because if they don't fight for their principles than secular liberal principles will be imposed all over the world. As it regards HIV, when liberal policies are pushed on third world traditional societies they don't work.

[rphillips4165]

Can I ask where you got your statistics? Because every one I have ever read says that church based abstinance only programs have raised the numbers of unwanted pregnancies and STD's.

[jjfaux]

Re Successful Church HIV reduction programs

My statistics are from the World Health Organization and CIA. You can look them on WHO or CIA world factbook websites. Harvard's HIV prevention researches also confirmed that Church programs are more effective.

2003 statistics from the World Factbook of the US Central Intelligence Agency, shows Burundi at 62% Catholic with 6% AIDS infection rate. Angola’s population is 38% Roman Catholic and has 3.9% AIDS rate. Ghana is 63% Christian, with in some regions as much as 33% Catholic and has 3.1% AIDS rate. Nigeria, divided almost evenly between the strongly Muslim north and Christian and “animist” south, has 5.4% AIDS rate.

Strongly Christian Uganda continues to frustrate condom-pushing NGO’s by maintaining its abstinence and fidelity AIDS prevention programs and one of the lowest rates of AIDS in Africa, at 4.1%. Uganda’s population is listed by the CIA Factbook as 33% Roman Catholic and 33% Protestant.

Of African countries with low Catholic populations, Botswana is typical with 37.3% AIDS, one of the highest in Africa, and 5% of the total population Catholic. In 2003, Swaziland was shown to have a 38.8% AIDS infection rate and only 20% Catholic population

[menmykoko]

Wrong on almost every point.

[tombollocks]

Don't you dare bring the Philippines into this! The RC Church does much good there, but they are all over the political scene there, damaging the country. The PH also has separation of church and state, but the RC does what it wants, where it wants. There was even legislation introduced to ban condoms and other forms of birth control. So please, shut it about how such good work is done through the church.

[HCB7562002]

If I have a coffee shop in Salt Lake City, can I ban all Mormons from entering? Can I call the cops if a mormon comes in and refuses to leave even though I have a sign that says, "we reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason?" I don't think the knee jerk answer of "yes" is correct. At least not if it's got a business or occupation license from the city, county or state.

[GreyWolfe]

You cannot ban them for being Mormon. You could ask them to leave if once they are in the shop they stand up and start preaching a good old 19th century sermon. The men were not asked to leave for being Gay, they were asked to leave for actions, granted the actions identified them as Gay, and the actions are tolerated in heterosexual couples makes a lawsuit a possibility there is no guarantee of an outcome. The point that will need to be decided is if the Mormon church can ban this activity from their public, though privately owned, plaza between same gender couples. In your coffee shop, another public, though privately owned location, there are limits to what you can ban but those limits are not as tight as some people will claim. You can ban actions of a certain type, the law even requires you to not permit some actions, you just cannot ban people based on race, religion, etc. Not permitting certain actions is the question here. Can they ban kissing between same gender couples while permitting it between mixed gender couples.?

[jjfaux]

This article didnt fully explain where exactly this gay couple was. Were they actually on a mormon temple's property? Why would a gay couple go to mormon property to kiss and hug?

As for religion killing more people than all other wars. That is not accurate and most people on here know that. The Officially Atheist Soviet Union killed millions of people and sought to eliminate people based on class, ideology and mental/physical ability, but not race which is how the nazis thought. Millions of people, including religious people, businessmen/women, small farmers etc.. were slaughtered by this ATHEISTIC regime. There were deportations of four ENTIRE nations to Siberia on cattle cars, and the populations of many ENTIRE towns in Lativia, Estonia and Estonia to make way for Atheist Communist Russian settlers. The same mass killing was repeated in Atheist China, in North Korea, in Vietnam and on a lesser scale in Cuba.

[LintLass]

Read more carefully. It was a public right of way, and guards harassed them over a peck on the cheek.

[jnutlfam2]

They were asked to stop the inappropriate behavior... they became argumentative. What would make the guards think it was just an innocent kiss? People have been found in strange positions in what you call a public right of way.

[zenlikejen]

Go back to history class - you can't convince me that religion over the course of human history hasn't killed more people than all wars combined. Read why some of those wars started....your refusal to see it isn't my problem.

[Robken]

jjfaux, you obviously do not know the difference between faith based religion and despots. Christianity/Religion is the biggest single cause of misery and war - please provide any literature that states Russia was at any time An Atheist State. As usual Christians try and excuse their hypocrisy by loading all other non-christian wars as Atheist. For you education Starlin was a communist and Hitler was a religious freak because he wanted a pure Aryan race, it had nothing to do with Atheism - In the Mein Kampf Hitler stated: "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work." Hitler was raised a Catholic and even went to monnastry school. Please read your history books. Lastly, I can understand when bad people do bad things but I find it the height of hypocrisy when good people do bad things because of a religious belief - please bring on more lies.

[StillIRise]

Excellent post. Fanned.

[jjfaux]

State atheism in the Soviet Union was known as "gosateizm,[3] and was based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. As the founder of the Soviet state V. I. Lenin put it:

Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.[21]

Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and, ultimately, the elimination of religious beliefs. Within about a year of the revolution the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed (a much greater number was subjected to persecution). [22

[hardcorelib]

Good post Robken. The fact of the matter is Russia and China were totalitarian police states where the state was the religion. They did not allow religion of any sort because they did not want anything to compete with totalitarian Communism. Did we ever call China or Russia the "Athiest state of Russian and China?" Of course not - Atheism is just a belief in reality as it is. You cannot have a belief in reality - it just IS. People do not go to an Atheist church to worship because that would be an oxymoron. The state and party was the GOD of Russia and China. They did not kill people based upon Atheism - they killed people who got in their way - whether you were religious or not.

[LintLass]

Abiogenesis said it best, below:

"I think the Mormon church should issue an apology to the world for sending out tens of thousands of missionaries to trespass on private property. They should acknowledge that they spend billions on training and maintaining this force of trespassers with the sole intent of harassing and violating personal time, property, and beliefs. All missionaries should be called home immediately and all missionary efforts permanently halted."

[zoe27]

Hear hear!

[GreyWolfe]

In the city of Provo, UT if you put up a sign saying "No soliciting" and a salesman knocks on your door they can be cited for trespassing. It is a city ordinance that exists in only 9 cities in the state of Utah. Ours even says for religious salespeople to stay away. The Mormon missionaries completely ignored it a few weeks ago. Should I have them cited? Maybe I should have handcuffed them at the time. They didn't leave right away either. They started asking questions about my garden and yard instead of leaving. To be honest about it though, they did not become argumentative so it wouldn't have gotten past the Mormon police department.

The LDS Church should apologize to everyone for the actions they promote in their missionaries and simple members.

[LonesomeRabbit]

I have been a Missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and while I never went to a house that had a "No Soliciting" sign, I will admit that I may have spoken about someone's garden or tried to talk to them longer than they may have wanted. But I never got argumentative or used profanity although there may have been a few times the person I was talking to did that, and I left without fighting with them.
I must also say that I am saddened by this situtation. I know that there is prejudice and unkindness to members of the LGBT community not just by members of our church but by many people, and I wish that wasn't the case. However I strongly disagree with the way in which all people of faith are just categorized as "unenlightened" or "totalitarian" I find it sad that just because people disagree wtih the self proclaimed "progressives" that are supposed to be tolerant, these people are not even worth the progressives' time.
I believe that people have a choice but at the same time different choices will lead to different levels of joy, and just like those here feel very strongly about voicing their opinions I feel those of faith have a desire to voice what they feel will be of value to others and they should not be derided for that. And in the words of Rodney King "Can't we all just get along?" :)

[EuroRant1]

"More people have been slaughtered in the name of religion than for any other single reason. That, my friends, that is true perversion." -- Harvey Milk

[zoe27]

And the higher rate of suicides among gay teenagers should be included in the ranks of the slaughtered since many of them would not happen in the absence of intolerance.

[Mort]

Actually Harvey was a little off on that one. Add up all the things like Crusades, Inquisition, etc and compare that with the power mongers like Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. Religion as a reason to ki ll pales in comparison to power.