Gay Couple Detained After Kissing On Plaza Owned By Mormon Church

SALT LAKE CITY — A gay couple say they were detained by security guards on a plaza owned by the Mormon church and later cited by police, claiming it stemmed from a kiss on the cheek.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that the men became argumentative and refused to leave after being asked to stop their "inappropriate behavior." The men say they were targeted because they are gay.

Matt Aune said he and his partner, Derek Jones, were walking home from a concert nearby on Thursday night, cutting through the plaza near the Salt Lake City Mormon temple.

Aune, 28, said he gave Jones, 25, a hug and kiss and that the two were then approached by a security guard, who asked them to leave, telling them they were being inappropriate and that public displays of affection aren't allowed on the property. He said other guards arrived and the men were handcuffed.

"We asked what we were doing wrong," Aune told The Associated Press.

Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said in a statement Friday that the men were "politely asked to stop engaging in inappropriate behavior _ just as any other couple would have been."

"They became argumentative and used profanity and refused to leave the property," she said. The church did not immediately respond to a request for more comment.

Police later arrived and both men were cited with misdemeanor trespassing, Salt Lake City Police Sgt. Robin Snyder said.

"It doesn't matter what they were asked to leave for," Snyder said. "If they are asked to leave and don't they are ... trespassing."

The church has been the target of protests over its support of a ban on gay marriage in California.

Comments

[LemonMeringue]

This news is very bad for Mitt Romney.

When people get to know more about the Mormon church the normal reaction is horror.

[Amalek]

Horror? or amusement that people can be fooled by such baloney. The story of Joseph Smith, huckster extraordinaire is proof that there is a sucker born every day. More than one in fact.

[reallymolly]

It is pretty horrifying, though!

[LemonMeringue]

A few years ago Brigham Young University showed a traveling exhibit of works by the sculptor Rodin.

The university had The Kiss and they refused to exhibit it. Apparently the sight of one of the greatest sculptures in the world would cause all the Mormon kids to go off fornicating.

Mormons are completely weird about clothing too. I once applied for a job at a Mormon-owned company and I had to read the dress code which specified loose clothing, covered to below the knee, etc.

When people criticize Muslims for veiling their women they should note that at least one American church is just as bad.

P.S. Utah has some of the worst divorce, teen pregnancy, child abuse and child neglect statistics in the country. Also suicides by young males.

It must be terrible to have so little self-control and respect for others.

[Disuberence]

SLC has a huge gang problem. A lot of them are Mormons, sure, but they're all gangbangers. Going around ki//ing each other, sure, but they're Mormons so they're going to have their own planet and bunch of wives and shiz.

[Mort]

I'm calling you on that! Our gang problem isn't as bad as other large cities, and judging from the ones I've seen there are more Catholics than Mormons. One of the reasons Salt Lake even has a gang problem is the quiet arrangement they made with Los Angeles years ago. LA need a place to ship troublemakers to thin the herd. Salt Lake accepted them. One of my neighbors brought their son here to get him out of a gang. As soon as he arrived he started up a local branch of the same gang.

[Moabkid]

Please identify the sources of your misinformation. The LDS church members don't practice nor condone polygamy.

[menmykoko]

Most of the crimes and divorce rates and other undesirable statistics which I can't remember are in republican states as mentioned in Richard Dawkins book from 2006 and a recent study here in the states--so much for morality.

[Disuberence]

Bible belt is the capital of unwed teen pregnancy, STDs, divorce, mur.der... pretty much all the "bad" stuff.

[Amalek]

Mormon girls always explained to me that if its oral its moral. Good enough for me.

[Mort]

It's not.

[MikeHermit]

Utah is also the capitol user and abuser of prescription drugs. Most prominently in "Happy Valley" AkA Utah County/Provo. Where the LSD population is thick and concentrated.

[Silverlaker]

I grew up in a mormon family. I remember vividly each year when my parents went to their 'tithing settlement' meeting with the bishop. This was necessary to do in order to be deemed worthy for a temple recommend.

There is nothing voluntary about tithing in the mormon church. My parents were required to take their tax returns so the bishop could be sure they paid a full 10% on their gross combined incomes. If they had underpaid their tithing they would write a check to make up the difference. This 10% tithing does not include the numerous other financial commitments required by the church, including: missionary funds, building funds, fasting offerings, etc. Never was any accounting of the money given back to the members.

[Silverlaker]

I felt compelled to write the above comment after reading this from Mort down further on this page:

"Mormons, like any other church, ask their members to pay tithing. It's voluntary. The definition of an honest tithe is between you and the Lord, for your circumstances. People who pay run the whole gamut of net, gross, earned, unearned, whatever. The bishop can help guide you for your situation, but it's up to you whether or not you are paying a full tithe."

What he is saying here is an absolute and complete lie.

[Disuberence]

Of course he's lying. They have to lie. Their religion is so... ridiculous. A good judge of the religion is how much money they demand of their members. Scientology / LDS are the worst.

[emily00011]

it IS a requirement to be in good standing. and they hound you if you aren't

[Mort]

I have NEVER been asked to bring tax returns or any other documentation to prove anything. Nor has anyone I know. If someone in your family had to, their bishop was wrong. Other donations which were encouraged years ago have been reduced to a checkbox on a form if you're interested. Tithing isn't mandatory for members, nor is meeting with the bishop to tell him if you paid it. There are blessing for giving tithing, and you can decide for yourself whether or not you want them.

The temple is a little different. Members who choose to attend the temple know that there are a few requirements, basic things like tithing. Things we should believe in and do anyway, but as our faith grows so does our desire to do them earnestly. When you're ready, you meet with the bishop and ask for a recommend. Very simple. And again, your choice.

[Mormondude]

I have never once, not once, been asked to produce tax returns. You are asked a yes or no question, based on your own understanding and your own conscience.

Besides, these sorts of interviews almost always take place at the end of the year, long before most people even start filling out tax forms. That story really doesn't pass the smell test.

It may be true in some circumstances, but if so I would guess it was very limited in scope, and specific to one bishop or stake.

Now, if a bishop has reason to believe that someone is willfully misrepresenting themselves, he's obliged to dig deeper, but again I would guess that's true in a small minority of cases.

[hardcorelib]

Mormondude - please read my previous comment and quit "lying for the lord". We proud ex-Mormons will call you on it every time.

[lkimura]

This is why I voted against gay marriage.
Legalizing gay marriage would just open the door for lawsuits against religious organizations for not allowing them to be married in their institutions.
Gays forget, the Mormons are in the same boat as they are. You can't legally marry more than one woman. The traditional Mormon life of many wives is frowned upon, and illegal - just like gay marriage. Gays should team up with the Mormons. Not harrass them.

[LemonMeringue]

You cannot sue a church for something like that.

Marriage is a legal institution. If you get married in a church without a marriage license it is not legal. The church wedding is just a ceremony.

[Disuberence]

Catholics don't marry Muslims. Where are the lawsuits? Oh right, that doesn't happen.

[BigBagel]

Actually they do on occasion.

[Disuberence]

Btw, Ikimura, I suggest you look at the history of the Mormon church. They've never been free of bigotry. Ever. I'm sure once same-gender marriage bans are finally ruled unconstitutional, they will have a "dream" that says gays were a-okay the whole time.

[Moabkid]

Kind angry sir. Please disclose your sources of misinformation.

[Amalek]

You are correct that the Mormons have been quick to change their theology to meet the times. Polygamy and colored people are two obvious examples. Someday they will decide to be the gay church too.

[Moxo]

Oh... does this mean I can order my security staff to arrest any Mormon discussing their faith while using my private fishing lake?

[GreyWolfe]

I'm not sure what state you're in so I don't know what the state laws would permit your staff to do. You should be free to ask them to leave if you have made it clear that activity is not permitted, and then respond to their lack of abiding by that as was done in SLC.

[Amalek]

You can kick anyone off your private property for any reason you wish.

[Herbert Marcuse]

Hello:

This is called "Milk Before Meat". Outsiders call it "Lying for The Lord".

There is a hierarchy of worth, determined in the pre-existence. In the pre-existence we got tested, and those who were most valuable came to earth to get physical bodies as White American Mormons. The most loathsome spirits were cursed as Non-Whites, with those of African descent being the most worthless forms of humanity.

Since we Mormons are the best and choicest people who have been created by the Mormon God to rule the world, it is not a sin for us to lie to you outsiders in many circumstances, such as when it will benefit our church's Public Relations. When Mort lies and tells you that the LDS church had nothing to do with Prop 8, or when he lies about tithing, he knows he is lying, but he is following a higher law. He knows that none of you will accept the scriptural "meat" of the matter, which is that you are our enemies and were created either to be wiped out, or subhumans to be enslaved. We are taught that eventually we will, through our unique form of family planning, outnumber all the rest of humanity. At that time *every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess Joseph Smith as prophet of God!*. Since you will not properly understand this scriptural "meat", we give you the "milk", which is whatever will pacify you dumb sheep into submission for the moment.

[Mort]

Hellooooo...... McFly?

[DeeDeeDaGumby]

lol... which I actually did..

[GreyWolfe]

I have heard my neighbors explain it this way to each other but never seen it in public before. I am trying to figure out how they can play so loosely with the truth and not see that eventually people will start calling them on it. Some of what I've read here tonight bashing them is just as wrong as they are but someone must tell it like it is. Thank you Herbert.
I think the Constitution would prevent laws forcing religions to perform gay marriages if that is against their teachings. I understand their fear but find it unfounded. And since they give so much milk, I keep wondering if there isn't more to their actions than the let out. What is the meat behind these actions?

[Amalek]

That is one feature I have noted in Mormons. They have absolutely no problem telling bald faced lies if they believe that doing so is in the best interest of the Mormon church. Cults need to aggressively confront the truth or they do not survive.

[Mort]

Have I lied to you?

[hardcorelib]

Wow! as an proud ex-Mormon - I salute you. "lying for the lord" to appear moderate is par for the course. well said.

[timetorevolt]

That explains why my Mormon co-worker i lie more than any person I have ever known. She lies about everything..not just Mormon crap..

[dancucich]

The men say they were targeted because they are gay.


===nonsense! They were "targeted" for what they were doing.
had they behaved respectfully in Church (private property" they would probably have not been asked to leave.

Try kissing in Muslim restaruants in NYC.

You get thrown out-no questions asked.

I dont like either of the aforementioned religions
(I wish I could say why, but huffpo isa bit too pc for that)

The mormons should have a right to uphold their standards of moral behavior
on their own facilities.

Is it ok for people who dont agree with gay marriage
to engage in overtly anti-gay behavior on the property
of the Metropolitan Community Church?
(which I understand is a gay church)

[KrugnacTheMagnificent]

Their story doesn't make any sense.

They say that they were on their way home, and took a short cut through the plaza. If so, then why would they have a problem being asked to continue on their way? Doesn't add up.

The most logical explanation is that they decided to make a scene. Whether that happened before being approached by the security guards or after, they obviously made that choice at some point.

And either way, they were in the wrong.

[Disuberence]

Read the article, it says what happened.

[Disuberence]

Sure, if they are doing anti-gay behavior (whatever that is) in the form of light kissing and hugging.

[carygranite]

mormonism is a mental illness.

[menmykoko]

Some Mormon members spend all their time defending the church.
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_apologists_section1.html


APOLOGISTS - SECTION 1
Total Articles: 25
Apologists for the Mormon Church are those who devote time to defend the Mormon Church, doctrines, leaders and teachings.

FARMS and FAIR are the two main Mopologetic organisations devoted to defending Mormonism. Other Mopologists such as Jeff Lindsay are on the fringes of Mopology.






Friday, Feb 18, 2005, at 08:04 AM
How Apologists Neuter Mormonism
Posted By Trixie
APOLOGISTS - SECTION 1 -Guid- ��




Apologists neuter Mormonism by diluting the strength of the most basic element of Mormonism - continuing revelation. Due to their awareness of problematic past prophetic teachings - some of which occured over the pulpit, some of which occured in conjunction with "revelation" - they have been forced into a position that diminishes revelation. Revelation becomes a somewhat ambigious, flawed process, during which prophets may mistake their own ideas for God's

[Amalek]

I heard you the first time.

I think you should give Mormon apologists some slack. Defending that religion has to be one of the hardest jobs on earth.

[menmykoko]

I know. I posted it in the wrong place the first time and I didn't want it to get lost in a reply to a mopologist. And you're right. :)

[Montgriz]

Good point....I believe it was Voltaire who said that those people who can so easily believe the absurdities offered to them, will also not hesitate to commit atrocities directed by the same people......Mormonism is truly an absurdity.....these two people, however, should learn about good taste and decorum...i loathe mormonism but I detest showboating nearly as much.

[RTIII]

If it's not absolutely clear (via signage) that this was private property, I'd sue.
.

[KeysE2S]

Robert Heinlein is spinning in his grave right now.

[forestnfama]

I agree.........a stranger in a strange land.

[aspertame2]

Dear kiss-in attendees: After you're done in Utah, could you come out to Tennessee to protest THIS?

http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/archives/2006/07/the_statue_of_l.html

It's not anti-gay, specifically, but it's really --well -- HUGE, really obnoxious and definitely ranks in the annals of fundamentalist thuggery.

[Stobyoia]

BARRICADES ARE UP ON TEMPLE SQUARE!!! PLAN ON MEETING AT SOUTH TEMPLE AND MAIN!!! 9AM!!!

[MSNichols]

I wish I could be there for you guys.

[Stobyoia]

Just spread the word... if you know anyone sympathetic, let them know. Much love! :)

[Stobyoia]

Text anyone you may know in SLC or Utah.

[andreastaats]

Google "temple wedding" and you can find thousands of pictures of straight couples engaging in "displays of affection". If they were a straight couple, this would not have happened, period.

[menmykoko]

Saturday, Apr 8, 2006, at 08:06 AM
Mormonism and Tithing
Posted By Infymus
TITHING - SECTION 1 -Guid- ↑



Mormons are required by Commandment of God to pay 10% of all their GROSS income to the LDS church. This includes all income, including, employment, social security, Medicare, food stamps and trust funds and any other form of income,...

The Church Of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints brings in an estimated 6.5 to 7.0 billion dollars a year in annual tithing revenues. The Church refuses to disclose to the public or its members how much money it receives annually and what those funds are used for. Because the LDS Church is a tax-exempt organization, it does not have to publicly disclose financial books.

In 2005 the LDS Church purchased two shopping malls in Downtown Salt Lake City for $500 million dollars. The Church plans to spend $1 to $3.5 billion dollars renovating them. In official statements from LDS Church, the Church claims that not one dollar of member tithing funds went into the deal.

Mormons are required to attend a Tithing Settlement with the Bishop each year. A member is questioned in a one-on-one interview with the Bishop to ensure the member is paying a full 10%. Those members who are not paying a full 10% loose their temple recommends and are prevented from entering the Temple. ....

This is a good website
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_tithing_section1.html

[KriTiKiT]

tithing is a joke

[Mort]

"This is a good website"

Actually not. Mormons, like any other church, ask their members to pay tithing. It's voluntary. The definition of an honest tithe is between you and the Lord, for your circumstances. People who pay run the whole gamut of net, gross, earned, unearned, whatever. The bishop can help guide you for your situation, but it's up to you whether or not you are paying a full tithe.

The church publishes annual reports and is subject to annual audits regarding all the funds. Donations are used for specific purposes, like providing for the needy, building churches, etc. They are not available for investments, property or other uses. The church does have investments that help to cover operating costs and other things not paid by donations. Some of those are properties, some are businesses. Well managed investments are a smart financial tool. And yes, NO tithing dollars are used for them.

[Amalek]

Right, no tithing dollars were used for them. All assets of the Mormon church have their ultimate source in tithing. Where else did they get funds?

The Church is trying to say that no "current" tithing was used for these investments. That is because there were still billions left over from earlier years, and the proceeds of investments made out of those tithings.

When the church lies to you like the Bush administration, you can believe that it is rotten to the core.

[KeysE2S]

"Mormons, like any other church, ask their members to pay tithing."
Even though I'm an agnostic, I grew up in the United Church of Christ. I never once heard a call for my childhood church's members to tithe. In fact, my personal metric for the danger level of any given faith is based on how often and how forcefully said faith petitions its followers for money.

[GreyWolfe]

I would love to see it published in a newspaper or other public forum. They may publish such a report but it is for leaders eyes only. By leaders I mean the people they pay to be full time leaders. The others are all supposed to by "lay" members that have been called to a position like Bishop or Stake President. I'll bet they couldn't even get a copy of that report.

[Conservador-Rebelde]

Tithing is not a requirement. Go to lds.org for real LDS information, as that is their website.

[Amalek]

Can you get your own planet if you don't tithe?

[GreyWolfe]

Tithing is a requirement to attend the services in the temple. A temple recommend requires you pay a full tithing. Not only are you asked if you paid a full tithing at tithing settlement but you must state you have again in interviews with your Bishop and Stake President to get a pass to the temple, called a recommend. If you have not attended a temple ceremony you are taught you cannot get into the highest part of heaven.

[hardcorelib]

Another Mormon tool - lying for the lord. Why would I go to the offical site of the Mormon cult? I was raised Mormon and know the truth. Isn't lying one of the worst offenses a Christian can do? (Crckets chirping)....

[KriTiKiT]

but they will knock on your door and the Stake guy that drives around in that little white truck with surveying equipment... have you ever delt with the 12 year old over tithing

[Forester]

Why doesn't someone ask Mitt what the story is?

[barrycourage]

He would change it 50 times before he finished telling it.

[KriTiKiT]

cause he is chokin' on his garments