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New York Times:
House Democrats will ask the wealthiest Americans to help pay for overhauling the health care system with a $550 billion income tax increase, the chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee said Friday.
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PROGRESSIVE TAXATION!! It's really great! Here's why:
To all the folks who are afraid of progressive taxation listen up: the argument that " really wealthy earned their wealth and why should they give it away" is an argument designed to keep you down. Really wealthy people don't earn their money the way working people do. This is a capitalist society, meaning that as soon as you have amassed enough capital, the capital works for you. You in effect, stop working. You do nothing, but your money grows. Sure hedge fund guys work 16 hour days, but they also retire at 40 with millions. That is not "earned" in the blue collar sense, or even the white collar sense of receiving a high salary. The top 1% of this country own 42% of the financial wealth. And they never have to lift a finger to see it grow exponentially.
They are the lazy bums! Not poor people who can't find enough jobs to get by. Why not tax them for the privilege of doing nothing in a society that makes it possible? The amounts that are being talked about here are negligible to the people to whom this tax applies. It may seem like alot of money to you, but it's not to them. Sure, some scrooge will whine, let him.
This is a continuation of a previous post.
This sort of situation would mean that we would pay far less for care and administrative costs than we do now, results could be rewarded, and we could begin to be able to compete with the world without health care costs weighing us down. People could change jobs, people could start businesses or become self-employed and not have to fear losing their health care.
I would suggest that on the private option, if the insurers want to provide plans, then they should have to take all comers, no cherry-picking. The public plan would cover anyone and so should the private plans or they would shove all the sick onto the public plan and take the money and run.
I agree with this to a degree. However, consider this. All employers (AS IN ALL of them...no one opts out) and all employees should pay 4% each into the health care fund. All self-employed pay both parts. Then, those who are investor class, such as hedge fund guys, have to pay at least one half of the tax on capital gains over say $50,000 per person in the family. The money goes to the government. Then, the government forms a really good public option in which pharms are not paid more than the average of what the other industrialized countries pay, specialists are paid half as much for surgeries, etc., primary care gets paid twice as much and they are expected to SPEND TIME with their patients and see that conditions are identified, treated, and prevented, if possible. Get docs into primary care by offering free tuition and stipends to those who go into primary care but only the top ones are eligible. Base co-pays and additional fees on the public option on income. Require all physicians, providers, hospitals, etc. to take public option patients, or require that a certain amount of their practice be open to them.
If someone would prefer a private plan, then they get 3% of both parts back and they can purchase a private plan, BUT THEY HAVE TO DO IT, NO TAKING MONEY AND GOING BARE. Let them pay the difference themselves and get the private coverage.
Taxing the rich ? Dont know about that , and , Im not rich. Far from it . How about cleaning up government waste ? Get rid of pork laden bills , and , why not have the people in congress pay for their own health care ? Im not saying I have the answer , but , it would seem to me that we could save a ton of money if government didnt waste so much .
The rich are the biggest waste by far. Isn't that obvious?
no
Anyone here ever get a job from a poor person?
This doesn't go far enough. Roll back the tax CUTS for the wealthiest to the levels they were under Bill Clinton. I'm sure most people would kill to have that economy back and part of that was the infusion of money into the government by taxes justly paid by the wealthiest 1%.
Our best economic times were under Eisenhower when the highest marginal rate was over 90%. Guess what? We still had rich people.
And they were still just about as necessary.
What if corporations paid their taxes?
Well for starters that would be a good thing as we would be out of this down turn and corporations would be making money again. As it stands many are in the red. Remember that there are more small companies that big ones. The driving force is the mom and pop shops in America and how we spends our money with them.
what if churches, temples, synagogues, etc all paid taxes?
Kanuk1: You show your ignorance with every word.
First comment I've read by you that I agree with. They all make political speech anyway and don't deserve tax-free status.
In other words, make them pay what they are suppose to pay and CLOSE the loopholes, tax credits and breaks!
The President’s tax cuts have shifted a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to
higher income taxpayers. In 2005, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect
(e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax
share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers
will rise.
think Charley will create a loophole for rental income from foreign property ownership?
Good idea! The wealthy have been getting a free ride since Reagan began the shift of the tax burden onto the back of the middle class. To those who are given the most, the most will be expected.
The middle class does not carry a burden. With proper tax planning middle class does not pay taxes.
Again, a pantload.
I have to go to work to support the "chosen", somebody else defend the working class in my absence.
Are you telling me that a married couple working two jobs and making $50k each and renting an apartment, commuting less than 50 miles to work for an employer pays no tax?
That's middle class, my friend. In the most painful way possible - no deductions for anything except for being married.
This is a good idea AND The Bible Tells Me So.
Acts 20:35
In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive."
Wow. The bible talks about the relative relationship of 'giving' and ''receiving'. Does it rank 'taking'?
Let's thank progressives for always trying to make everyone else "more blessed" without any concern for themselves.
In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than
one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third
(30.6 percent) of income.
Right of the government website.
Individual Income doesn't include things like capital gains - the really big cash cow of the super rich.
Maybe that's true but even after Taxes they still have way more than they need while the majority of us just get by or suffer. You may have eyesight but you are blind. Yes, the Rich just suffer so don't they. Pity the Rich everybody. Pony up and give 'em a can of soup. LOL!
It is simply astonishing how many low income Americans fall for this trickle down, supply side nonsense, which demonstrably hasn't worked since Reagan introduced it with massive tax cuts on the rich. Real wages of the middle class have stagnated, while the top 1% have gotten obscenely richer. And yet, more than half the people here object to a modest tax on the incomes of the very top.
More commenters here are carrying water for the rich than you would believe possible.
Read on.
A reason why people oppose tax increases even for people much higher incomes than themselves is this: Americans have been told over and over that if they work hard and do all the "right" things, they too can be rich and successful. The Horatio Alger "Rags to Riches" myth. When polled, a majority of Americans believed that they would someday be more affluent than they were presently, while that same majority DID NOT believe the same about their neighbors. This study has been done and replicated numerous times.
People are justifying their abhorrence in paying taxes because they believe that someday they may have to pay them...plain and simple.
The fact is that most people are born into an economic class and it is extremely difficult to move either up OR down in it. The latter case is demonstrated all the time; one only needs to look at where some of the stimulus package went - bonuses for failed executives - to see examples of white collar welfare being paid for by the working stiffs who will never enjoy this kind of golden umbrella when they make economic mistakes of this magnitude in their own lives.
If they would start the taxation at a million bucks..fine. But it sounds like they're going to tax everyone from $230,000. That's not RICH (or it is) that's middle class. And it's not fair. Those people aren't any safer from the insurance industry than the very poor. Just one bad illness from financial ruin, the way system is now.
See, every once in a while it helps to think of the situation of someone else other than my own, because I sure don't make any $230,000 a year. That's called being a society to think of the welfare of your neighbor.
What they need to do is what Obama promised: rescind the Bush tax cuts for the truly wealthy who were his "base". Heck, I think Obama could do it with an executive order...not sure tho.
"See, every once in a while it helps to think of the situation of someone else other than my own..."
You mean like the situation of the 45 million Americans who cannot afford healthcare?
Right, but shes soooooooo concerned about the poor folks making $230,000 a year.
are you including the 20 million+ illegals?
If one were to read the article one might see that is says that the tax increase will be for single people who's gross adjusted income is over $280,000 or $350,000 for families. (Adjusted gross income is income after deductions).
That is not middle class.
It is if you live in San Fran, NY, Boston, Chicago
Sorry you think that $230,000 per year is just middle class. Look around you and open your eye to how many prople are living on less that $50,000 per year.
Far less than $50K.
Why not, they got us into this mess.
Yes I know, They made all of us that could not afford to buy a house on some bad mortgage buy that house. They made us apply for 15 credit cards then max them out. They made us buy two new cars. They made us live beyond our means. Though our depression era parents told us different.
LOL too true - of course, it's the fault of the rich, though
barkrudedog69; I shouldn't have to be a Mortgage Banker to get a Mortgage. I shouldn't have to be a Lawyer to get a Lawyer. I shouldn't have to be a Car Mechanic to get a Car mechanic. See where I'm going with this numb nuts? I am supposed to TRUST that you know what you are doing if you hold yourself out to be an expert and if you knowingly abbrogate that responsiblity then you . . . have . . . broken . . . the . . . LAW!
barkrudedog69: The main reason people go bankrupt is due to illness. They have no Health Care. The second reason is divorce. Having said that I have a relative who went bankrupt because he maxed out his Credit Cards on consumer items. He is a Staunch Republican and calls himself a Capitalist. I tried to explain to him that he was in all actuallity, a Socialist because the government bailed out his spending spree. Yeah that EVIL government. But he wouldn't listen because he was too busy getting his radio brain washing from . . . you guessed it now didn't you?
The common person needs to take some responsiblity.
Only the common person?
wata pantload
The "chosen" have been stealing from the commons for centuries.
The common person can exert their will through...the government.
The government is, we the people.
11 Trillion in tax cuts for the rich, I say they can afford it! Thanks Bush!
Didn't those tax cuts go to the "chosen", the ones they think were ordained to save us all?
sarcasm off
Lets see all the gains in Wall St. were wiped out back to 1998.
Lets see all the Real Estate gains were wiped out back to 2001.
Nope...they lost and now they are bleeding to keep their employees on. But hey lets make it harder for them so they spend less money in our economy...the driving force to employment....
wata pantload
Go back to the Feudal Era by yourself, let the rest of us have the 21st Century already.
like I was trying to say - we saw the writing on the wall and moved lock, stock and barrel to Canada - now they get the 160 jobs (is that better, HP censors?)
Tax the rich, tax success, tax inovation........and let the government give you everything......
It has worked great in Cuba.
wata pantload
very articulate - your argument is well presented
The rich have enjoyed huge tax cuts at the expense of everyone else since Reagan. Where have you been?
Why do you low earners carry water for the rich?
I think it has to a Feudal Era mentality where "chosen people" were ordained to manage society for us peasants.
they need the job
Better than ....
rewarding the rich for loss of wages and benefits for the worker
so you prefer Cuba?
Its been 40 plus years of the welfare state and wealth redistribution to the non productive parisites that has us where we are at.
You must be on disablitiy for your blindness or your low IQ.
Yes, Reaganomics of Tinkle Down funnelled all the wealth to what is now only about 3% of the population.
When the economy supported a larger middle class the richer people paid a higher percent of their income in taxes than after the tax cuts since Reagan.
Go listen to Bill Clinton's farewell address there Tazru. Listen to all of his glory and his great things.
Your hate for the country is sad.
Go listen to the failure of Jimmy Carter when he was about to cry on TV.
Apparently you've been asleep since 1980, when all the tax cuts went to the rich.
Apparently you do not have a CPA or EA or do not tax plan.
the parasites have won - there is no more largesse to spread around from us folk who have actually earned it (and paid our taxes) - heck, we could get a job with the govt now since Bammer can't find a dimocrap who has paid JIS taxes
Let's go back to the tax rate when had in the 1950's when America was prosperous.
Do you agree with that?
I meant to write "we had in the 1950's" Excuse the typo
Hey...have you been reading my posts? I agree with you...under Eisenhower the highest tax rate was over 90%....worked great!
This health care is only about getting power...There is no plan at all....
Get the power then the government can decide who lives and who dies.
WHAT WEALTHY???There will be NONE>>>
It is the new party in power.
If you work and earn a pay check, there will be a time very soon you will be considered wealthy. Taxing the rich is like the well, it will dry up sooner than later. So you will be paying for those who don't work and want government to give them everything free and you can read many of their posts here on HP.
Care to back that up? Tax rates on the rich have been at the lowest levels since pre-depression days. Where are you getting your faulty information?
Oh, I see. You just make up the facts to fit what your worldview.
too true - the well is now dry
I say go back to the tax rates we had in the 1950's - when Eisenhower was President and America was prosperous!
You with me?
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First Posted: 07-11-09 10:17 AM | Updated: 07-11-09 10:21 AM