Health Care: Canada, France, Israel and U.S.

The health care debate is heating up as reform bills make their way through both the House and Senate. Supporters of a government option point out that Americans pay more per capita for health care than any other developed nation, the bulk of which have adopted some form of publicly funded system. Politicians opposed to adopting a public option cite, some times erroneously, longer waiting times and reduced quality of care in countries like Canada and Great Britain as unacceptable ramification of moving towards universal health care.

Most recently, Republicans have called Canadian doctors to testify before Congress about long waiting times and Conservatives for Patients' Rights, funded by former hospital CEO Rick Scott, has aired an ad featuring horror stories of medical malpractice in Canada.

The Real News Network asked Canadians to shed light on the ad by talking about their own experiences with the Canadian medical system (watch the story below).

The Huffington Post wants to expand the conversation to include all countries with some form of socialized medicine, anywhere from Canada to France to Israel. We are looking for people with experiences receiving care in both the United States and a country with socialized medicine. How did the two systems compare? Were the waiting times in countries with socialized medicine a problem? Were you able to afford coverage while in the United States? Use the form below to tell your story. Those that shed light on both systems of health care will be featured in the days and weeks to come.

Comments

[meede]

There is a new series of Ads now appearing by PatientsUnitedNow showing a Canadian Shona Holmes as a brain tumor survivor who travelled to US for diagnosis & surgergy as she is stating that wait times are too long in Canada. Please know from the many sites she appears on, wouldn't be surprised to hear her being paid. More indepth searching about her, I'm finding information that she is part of a panel that are challenging Ontario's ban on private healthcare options calling the government program a monoploy. She has an agenda together with two doctors who appeared on a site with her Merrilee Fullerton and William Orovan.

Know, if you have a brain tumor, you're loosing sight, if she was honest, it would have been addressed. Many testimonials on sites like CPR.org -- are totally false. Like any system, there may be a few that fall through cracks but not brain tumors. Love to question her how about her Canadian appointments as I know it's being used in Canada like in the US as lobbying for private options to create a two tier system.

You can bet that these lobbyist type sites have interviewed, cherry-picked, paid, written scripts twisting words. If you want to read a site speaking about national healthcare see pnhp.org from Chicago. This Canadian has read their site. The video by Real News in this story is more truthful

[lucky051779]

http://www.mayoclinic.org/patientstories/story-339.html

She did not have "A Brain Tumor" as she keeps repeating , with all the drama she can muster ..rather
a "Rathke's cleft cyst" ...a benign cyst that was causing temporary/­reversable partial vision loss.

But , whilst a serious medical issue , not life threatening as she implies on every show they put her on.

another product of the Right Wing Dis-Information Machine!!!

[Squeezer55]

Mad as Hell -
I have seen your numbers before and I certainly don't dispute them . However here in Canada , each province charges differently for monthly premiums. Here in Alberta monthly premiums were abolished at the beginning of 2009 - we pay nothing now for health care. It's all paid for by taxes and oil and gas royalties and....get this - we don't have a sales tax in this province. The system works the way it was meant to work .. taxes for life's priorities ... education, health care, police / fire. Move to Alberta ... we're friendly here, you won't regret it.

[meede]

I have tried on numerous occasions to post on CPR's site debunking the information in their ad with reference to Canadian healthcare. They will not allow my posts.

The doctor in the add regarding wait times, owns private clinics in western Canada as each province operates their own system and the province he is in allows for a two tier system including private clinics. Most other provinces do not. He therefore has a financial interest in saying everying he can against the government plan.

We choose our own doctors
Government does not get between Dr and Patient. Your care is between you & dr.
Wait times have been exaggerated. There are some reasonable waits but not as they say.

Huff has other articles many CDNs posted on. Read them. CPR is so untruthful. Lobbyist?? Financial gainers -- big time. They've hired/paid people to lie

[unite4change]

Check out Wendell Potter who worked for CIGNA 15 years and left last year. He was on PSB with Bill Moyers' Journal on July 10, 2009.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

[sueinmn]

Huff your thread break?? TEST.

[Poorsarah]

We need to change our healthcare system...NOW! Our current healthcare system panders only to special interests and for those who have jobs and can AFFORD healthcare. The GOP's phoney arguments that we won't be able to choose our own doctors or that the waiting periods will be longer is horseshyte...In my 20+ years of working in manufacturing (skilled labor) it has ALWAYS BEEN THE INSURANCE COMPANY'S DECISION WHICH PROVIDER I WOULD HAVE TO GO TO...HERE IN THE USA, THE COMMON WORKING MAN HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO CHOOSE THEIR PROVIDERS FOR YEARS!!! THE GOP'S HEADS HAVE BEEN STUCK UP THE BACK SIDE OF CORPORATE HEALTHCARE LOBBYISTS FOR TOO LONG!!! I CANNOT REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT THE USA'S HEALTHCARE SYSTEM RANKING IS TOWRD THE BOTTOM...NOT THE TOP. THE MYTH OF LONGER WAITIING PERIODS HAS BEEN DEBUNKED...HERE IN THE USA, THE WAITING PERIODS ARE MANY TIMES LONGER THAN OTHER COUNTRIES SUCH AS CANADA. THESE PHARMA AND INSURANCE MOGULS KEEP STICKING "POLITICAL CONTRIBUTION MONEY" INTO THE POCKETS OF POLITICIANS SO THE POLITICIANS WILL VOTE AGAINST REASONABLE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL AMERICANS. WE NEED TO CUT THE POLITICAL GAMES AND CHANGE OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM TO BENEFIT ALL HUMAN BEINGS. By the way, I am one of millions of Americans without healthcare because I was locked out of my job due to company bad-faith bargaining. I WANT TO WORK...THERE ARE SIMPLY NO JOBS AT THIS TIME THAT ARE FULL TIME AND PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE COVERAGE!!!

[sueinmn]

It's sad that our republicans can worry about Democracy around the world, so strongly that they go to war to enforce it.
Its sad they Republicans can ignor the good around the world like those having Universal Healthcare.

What is even more sad are the Democrats who also enforce Democracy around the world along side the Republicans by voting for war.
Then the Democrats also ignor the good around like those having Universal Health care.

What totally blows my mind is that both Republicans and Democrats are barely maintaining a sense of Democracy in our own country by allowing Insurance Companies, over the will of the people to influence the very weak threads that our Democracy is hanging by, and ignoring the "good" we could have here in America by also having Universal Healthcare.

Made in America: corruption and greed with a total disregard for life in the name of promised campaign contributions with out a conscience or moral values to allow their own citizens Universal Healthcare. Only in the USA!
Only in America!

[Tommygun264]

Last year I was rushed to the ER suffering from fits of projectile vomiting, a fever of 103 and severe abdominal pain. My spleen was enlarged nearly 8x normal size and was in danger of rupturing. Over the next three days I underwent tests including biopsies of 3 lymph nodes to determine whether my spleen was enlarged due to lymphoma or some other form of cancer. No cancer was found, but they determined that I had three months at most before my spleen would rupture, which would have proven fatal. But since my spleen was only enlarged, not yet ruptured, and the cause could not be connected to a life-threatening condition such as cancer, my case did not fall within established guidelines, so I was essentially warehoused, in constant pain, my spleen in danger of fatally rupturing at any time, for 9 days while my doctors waited for my health care provider's administrative offices to approve the recommended treatment and the removal of my spleen. They actually ran a cost-benefit analysis. 1/4 of my time in hospital was spent waiting for an insurance adjuster to decide my fate. The argument that single payer and/or public option health care will lead to rationing is a myth. Health care is already rationed by the private insurance companies and faceless administrators come between doctors and patients every day. As long as we have a for-profit health care system this will always be the case.

[sueinmn]

Do the Democrats voting on our health care NOT BELIEVE that this goes on? It's not just about the coverage costs, it's about the lack of coverage because they deny treatments. Its about the lack of coverage for all Americans to have health care. Then yes it comes back to cost as we are paying dearly with out receiving what we pay for!

I just fail to understand how these who have to power to provide refuse and why? I wouldnt even mind paying the same rates IF we were getting what we paid for. To pay and not get what you pay for really is fraud and needs addressing also like any other consumer fraud. We are apparently being forced to compete with lower class countries for wages and these insurance costs are killing us all, employers and employees alike.

[unite4change]

They know and are being paid by the insurance industry to prevent a public option.

[nippyfan]

I am freelance, tried to get coverage through Blue Cross/Blue Shield, they turned me down because I had a pre-existing condition....I'm anemic. Many women are anemic due to menstruation. Sad state of affairs.

[sueinmn]

Today they tag everything pre exisiting. Even if you never had prior treatment to know you have it. They apparently have a crystal ball that tells them your illness came on before your coverage began, therefore its pre existing. How sad! Its abuse the same as the banks rap.ing and bleeding us dry to get every cent possible.

[nippyfan]

An uprising's a coming.

[oldhippiecom]

I pay for mine and have good care. If I have to pay for others then I can't afford mine anymoe. Doesn't make a lot of sence to me.

[dutt]

You pay for yours and you have good care. But you're also paying for the inefficiency of doctors having to deal with all the different insurance companies and their various bureaucracies. You're also paying for the massive lobbyist efforts to thwart reform. You're also paying for a system that makes it's money by denying care to people who thought they were paying for good care.

A number of other countries have a different system that gets better results and costs considerably less. How would you like a better system for less money? Does that make sense to you?

[NoblesseOblige]

Thank you for such a succinct and excellent post on the subject of universal healthcare. Bravo!

[unite4change]

Oldhippiecom, typical Christian republican reponse. I got mine so......

[1962Thunderbird]

I dont have health insurance. I wish I could go get a check up before something really bad happens. I have not enough $ for insurance. I buy car insurance instead.. :-(

[sueinmn]

Chances are the way they are denying claims, you could be paying and not get what you pay for.

[paul-o]

I'm also an American living in Canada. Up here, we live longer, more of our babies survive, no one is uninsured or under-insured, and we spend a lot less money per capita to achieve that.
How does it work?
You choose your own doctor and your course of care.
The government does NOT choose your doctors or determine your treatment.
You get treatment for your condition, and no one cares if it's 'pre-existing.'
You are never 'denied payment.'
You don't lose your coverage when you change jobs or lose your job--the healthcare belongs to you, not to your employer.

It's so sane. When my son had open-heart surgery at 10 days of age, I got to think and worry about him, instead of co-payments and deductibles. The doctors and the nurses got to think and worry about him, instead of cost-recovery and insurance administrators.

It's not hard to find people here who complain about the medical system, but it is very hard to find anyone who would throw it out for US-style privately insured health care.

[whitehawk]

Thankyou expat; I am a Canadian, like you enjoy the health care immensely for the above reasons, but there are many more 'preventative health care' programs to rave about also in our communities throughout Canada. I would say the major problem here is everywhere with a lack of doctors doing rural commitments in communities far from larger cities, some in urban areas also.

Tax deductable are programs related to health maintanance and wellness such as $500 tax credit per child per yr for physical activity programs such as 'hockey', dance, aerobics, swimming....any program using exercise as a base criteria.

Communities have free dental care, mental health services, illness specific education programs, free BP Clinics, Foot Clinics, Stop Smoking clinics with aids to help, so many fine clinics in every community at no cost or little cost.

[SangZe]

I paid a former MD $89.00 for telling me the results of a test. These results could have been read to me over the telephone by a secretary. My self-employed wife spends two months of her salary on insurance that covers about 1/2 of any given problem. Now I understand that health care reform is a dead issue. We're being forced out of the country because we can't afford to live here anymore. We can do better in many other lands. And I don't think the president gives a damn.

[davism97]

This is exactly the reason I don't even bother going to the doctor when I get sick. In America it's too financially risky to see a doctor unless you absolutely know you need to.

[dutt]

I am a father to a 5 year old son and a husband to a wonderful woman who has made personal sacrifices to be a stay at home mom. A little over a month ago I was laid off my job. I am paying the consequences for the mistakes of my incompetent, idiotic former boss. If those in power had to risk their own livelihood and wellbeing instead of ours, they wouldn't have made such spectacular blunders and this country would be in a lot better shape financially.

If it weren't for the Democrats and Obama I would be spending over 1000 dollars a month to insure my family. Thank goodness the Republicans aren't in charge. Compassionate conservatism is compassionate in the same way that Palin's quiting is an act of leadership. Because of ARRA, the government will subsidize 65% of the costs of COBRA, therefore I will only be paying 365 dollars a month, still a lot of money when you're not employed but a lot better than a 1000+ dollars. Interesting to see how overwhelmingly ARRA was voted on along party lines. Gotta love those Republican family values. Of course they would probably just argue that my 5 year old being uninsured is just a motivator for me to get a job (in the same way that Republican Cynthia Davis says hunger is a positive motivator for poor students). Trust me people, I wanna work! To bad the Bush destroyed the economy.

[dutt]

We need to fix the health care system. I believe that not only will reform make health care more affordable, it will also be a boost to the economy making it easier for businesses to compete globally and will especially help smaller businesses and entrepreneurs.

[AnnoyedCanuck]

I live in the province of BC. Here, families pay $108 per month for single-payer insurance. All doctor visits, all diagnostic tests, all hospital services, ambulance, EMT, etc, are covered. There are no deductibles, no user fees, no co-pays. There is no such thing as a 'pre-existing condition' that might be used as a pretext to deny care. Everyone is in the same non-profit insurance pool, so there is no reason or incentive to deny care. The overhead cost of our insurance system is less than 2%, as opposed to 30-40% in the US.

The rest of the US thinks Americans are crazy. Single-payer insurance is the only way to go.

[Mattie]

I have excellent insurance, my husband pays $27.00 a week, I have a serious illness, all my drugs are covered by a $10.00 or $20.00 co-pay with the exception of one, I pay $50.00 for that. I have a great doctor, I have no complaints, sorry!

[sonoffestus]

You shouldn't be sorry. If its working for you that is wonderful. No one is asking you to change, however there are 45 plus million people in the US who do not have anything and yet still require care. The economics of the US system are unsustainable. Eventually, it will effect your situation.

[Chaimirija]

Most people, who are insured, do not have that kind of insurance!

[devadasi]

No complaints? Aren't you being a bit smug? There is so much suffering in this country, and that's all you have to say.

[unite4change]

Mattie, not now but what if you husband loses his job? Then what? I think that's what people with good insurance don't realize just because you have employers' based insurance coverage today, doesn't mean you will have it tomorrow.

[getsit]

You are lucky. I had a policy with very few copays and covered most everything. My government employers have decided we need to change and our Union is working for a compromise. But this change is hitting families in a major way. Some families will be paying over $1000 a month for care. That's all well and good for management since their incomes are high, but for the clerical and other low paid workers it isn't affordable so their spouses and children will no longer be covered. Some will even be eligible for Medi-Caid and food stamps. So the government pays in the end and so do your tax dollars. And the emergency care they need will also be paid by your tax dollars

Maybe your employer will have to do the same and cut your policy and up your out of pocket.

Coverage has to be equitable. Coverage has to be comprehensive and affordable for all.