Rachel Maddow Duels With Pat Buchanan On Affirmative Action (VIDEO)

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Rachel Maddow got into a fierce argument with Pat Buchanan about affirmative action and the Supreme Court nomination of Sonia Sotomayor on Thursday night.

The epic battle included accusations, interruptions, and strong feelings with Maddow incredulous that Buchanan could not bring himself to admit that discrimination might play a part in the fact that 108 out of 110 U.S. Supreme Court justices have been white.

Buchanan said he considered Sotomayor unqualified and called her an "affirmative-action appointment" by Obama. When Maddow pressed him on why he was critical of affirmative action, Buchanan launched into a vigorous defense of whites who have been discriminated against.

When asked why the overwhelming majority of justices have been white, Buchanan declined to explicitly cite discrimination, but explained that "White men were 100% of the people that wrote the Constitution, 100% of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence, 100% of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, probably close to 100% of the people who died at Normandy. This has been a country built basically by white folks, who were 90% of the nation in 1960 when I was growing up and the other 10% were African-Americans who had been discriminated against. That's why."

When Maddow asked whether the reason that 108 out of 110 justice were white is because "white people deserved to have those positions," Buchanan answered: "A lot of people get up there for a lot of reasons."

An incredulous Maddow continued: "I would hope that you would see that picking 108 out of 110 white justices of the Supreme Court means that other people are not being appropriately considered... and the reason we have affirmative action is you recognize that the fact that people were discriminated against for hundreds of years means that you sort of gamed the system unless you give other people a leg up..."

When Buchanan began to interrupt her, Maddow said, "Hold on, I let you talk for a long time."

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Later, Buchanan compared the historically white make-up of the Supreme Court to an all-black track team or all-white hockey team, asking Maddow, "Why do you assume discrimination simply because you got one component on the Supreme Court... Where's the genius who is a woman who you think is a genius? Go for her..."

When Buchanan referenced the white firefighters who Sotomayor ruled against in a court ruling, claiming that they "are victims of that evil affirmative action," Maddow replied, "I couldn't disagree with you more."

Later, Buchanan attacked Maddow for being out of touch and seemed to slam judges who support affirmative action when he stated, "You know what they ought to do? They ought to defend the rights of white working-class folks."

Maddow cut him off and snapped, "I don't need a lecture from you about whether or not I know, what I think about working class Americans... For you to privilege race... and say that what we need to tap politically is white people's racial grievance, you're playing with fire and dating yourself."

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Comments

[Westof405]

The"Founders" were often slave owners who thought that a black person was only worth 3/5 of a white person (for census purposes) and that there was nothing wrong with the brutality of slavery. It is hard to believe that someone like Jefferson actually believed it was moral to own another person and force them to do manual labor for him with no rights whatsoever.

We had to fight a brutal war to end slavery in this country. Wasn't it self-evident that slavery was immoral? Not to Southerners, some of whom appear to be in Congress today.

The only reason we have affirmative action is because of 200+ years of discrimination in favor of white people. Does it sometimes discriminate against whites? Unfortunately, that is bound to happen. But Buchanan's justification for 108 out of 110 justices being men is ridiculous. So what he is saying is that in the 200+ year history of our country, there never was a qualified woman tor the court until Sandra Day O' Connor when women make up half the population? If that is true, that in itself is evidence of discrimination against women, not to mention only 2 qualified black men (Marshall and Thomas) in that whole period-same argument.

[jonjon66]

co-sign

[POLINUT]

Co-sign

[RecentRetiredVet]

I have to differ with you on Clearence Thomas. He is the most unqualified Judge to ever sit on the bench. He simply do not understand the constitution, which protect everyone, not just the rich. What an embarrassment.

[MontanaSouth]

You are completely correct. He is an insult to the bench. He is so far from the standard set by Justice Thurgood Marshall that one cannot even compare the two without insulting Justice Marshall's reputation.

[gypsy508]

The Founding Fathers were far from unanimous on slavery. They just lacked the desire to make it an issue because it was too explosive to debate. They didn't want to lose the South. Ben Franklin - not coincidentally the only one to not become a politician - was the lone famous Founder to take a strong stand.

[JonYank]

Rachel got owned, and she's starting to hit low.

[MontanaSouth]

What planet are you from?

[StevoH2O]

Must be from Tr0II-ville, USA.
Where perception is often augmented to justify indifference.

[cobraxus]

Dear JonYank
Please explain how you have cable and an internet connection in that cave where you're living(circa 1953).

[ConservativeLatino31]

I wonder why Rachel changed the subject when Pat brought up Miguel Estrada. She knows that Mr. Estrada is the perfect example of liberal hypocrisy. Democrats opposed him because he was latino. Private memos that were sent to Senators were made public testified to this. Where was the outcry? There was none.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Hypocrisy? Like the vaunted "party of conservative Christian family values:"

http://www.armchairsubversive.org

http://www.republicanoffenders.com

"Party of conservative Christian family values" only if one means the locals in THE HILLS HAVE EYES, but that's about it, citizen.

It's your Nixonian hero Buchannan -a well-and-thoroughly debunked historical revisionist BTW- who kept changing the subject with non-sequiturs and straw man arguments like Estrada.

Hypocrisy is neither a family value nor Christian virtue.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[MontanaSouth]

They opposed him because he was a conservative who served in the Office of Solicitor General and the White House refused to release his writings to congress. The memo indicates that because he is also a Latino, it would make it very difficult to keep him off of the Supreme Court if nominated. But they won their battle without calling him a racist.

[LemonMeringue]

Buchanan ought to be ashamed of his outright lie that only white people died at Gettysberg.

Many, many, many Negros fought in the civil war. Many died, too.

[BlackWidowPilot]

AFAIK -and I am a Military Historian- there were no Black troops present or killed at Gettysburg. That does not negate in any way the contributions and sacrifices of circa 180,000 Black Union soldiers during that conflict, or in every American conflict since the Revolution.

The racists who have been attacking Judge Sotomayor during the confirmation hearings are as transparent as polished glass, obvious in their screed to the likes of Ray Charles (ie., a dead blind man), and do a gross disservice to the thousands of Americans of colour who have served in our Armed Forces in the past, and who are serving now in harm's way in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Pat Bucannan's intellectual dishonesty in defense of his morally bankrupt ideology is as predictable as Bernie Madoff taking yet another investor's money when he was running his ponzi scheme.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[cobraxus]

well put.

[rambot02]

Dinosaur meet mammal. Abacus meet computer. Leeches meet penicillin. Poor Pat; he's such a relic he belongs under glass in a museum. How RM kept her cool during this "spirited exchange of views" is beyond my comprehension.

[fanchon1288]

Doctor Rachel Maddow can handle Pat Buchanan any day.

[LemonMeringue]

She is a study in how to debate someone and chop them into little tiny pieces without ever raising her voice or uttering a cross word.

I do not know how she does it. She is not a Rhodes scholar for nothing!

[Cooper1608]

Pat needs to read this ASAP.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[osusana]

THAT was powerful - thanks for posting!

[POLINUT]

AWESOME! Especially that clip at the end. Bravo!

[RJPasadena]

Thank you. I was just talking about the contributions of japanese americans who volunteered to serve during wwII after they were interned. I am amazed that so many americans do not know this. I know Pat knows this but just like most RETHUGS they would rather lie than tell the truth.

[PoliticalRockChick]

Affirmative Action isn't only for blacks. It's a policy that takes race, ethnicity, or gender into consideration in an attempt to promote equal opportunity. Affirmative Action only opens the doors for minorities, women and the poor. It doesn't keep you inside or bring you to the finish line. It's hard work that keeps you inside. It's hard work that brings you to the finish line. Rich white kids can pay their way in, but at the end of the day all they will deliver is: mediocre work and an incomplete; like Mr. Bush.

[Hank007]

Mr. Bush, btw, was a recipient of affirmative action. He did not have good enough grades to qualify for Harvard or Yale, but there is an affirmative action program in place at both those schools which allows less qualified students admission, if one or more family member went there. That is how he got in, through 'legacy points'.

[RecentRetiredVet]

'legacy points' = Afrimative Action (White Men Style)

[PoliticalRockChick]

I never knew that. Legacy Points? No wonder the former drug addict son of Peter Lawford got into Harvard. Ted, Bobby, Jack went to Harvard.

[CynAnne]

Loved the way Rachel dismantled P.B.'s bull-sh*t before he had a chance to continue insulting our collective intelligence any further (gad, I loathe him, and I'm SO very glad Rachel no longer affords him regular-guest status on her show)..

[Budokan]

I don't like PB. In fact I find him reprehensible. But you gotta give him credit. He says what he thinks, unlike most of the other RepubliKans who couch their beliefs in softer, more acceptable, language in order to make themselves appear more appealing to voters.....

[THE JEDI 69]

"THEIR" country I'm sure the American Indian would have a problem with that statemaent, and I'm sure Mexico would have a problem with that and as far as being built...funny I don't remember one white slave getting his carcass ripped off for not picking that cotton field fast enough.........

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[progressiveblkgrl]

This might be scary. I agree that the test shouldn't have been thrown out. Frank Ricci should have been promoted as he did well on the test and he deserved it - yes, the test should have been examined but not thrown out. That said I always find it ironic when white people begin to talk about reverse discrimination, there is really no such thing as that - discrimination is not just something white people do to other people. As Chris Rock says old Black men, like my Dad, are some of the most racist people in America (think Jeremiah Wright) so Pat's argument slips a bit for me there. But where I do agree with Pat is, that they're are a lot of very angry white people out there who believe "their" country has been stolen right from under their noses, though they still control all of the wealth and power. This is a country where differences should be celebrate, why do we have to be the great melting pot, why can't we be a fantastic stew!

[yoli647]

Thank you, I agree, well said.

[marydianeg]

The riches of this country were made from free slave labor - and white men want to keep it that way. Discrimination comes from power. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination. Minorities cannot discriminate against a power structure. Affirmative action exists because white men systemically kept others out. They use legacy and privledge to do this. SAT scores are a joke - affluent-privleged students take these tests multiple times, hire tutors to coach them how to take the tests and some even switch schools so they can repeat grades to raise their scores. When we all play by the same rules then let's talk - this country is only as great as its least served.

[RJPasadena]

There are a lot of angry black men due to the years of daily discrimination for just being a themselves, for being denied a job, a home, an opportunity based on the the color of their skin. The same for asians, hispanics, etc. Whites who claim discrimination due to race don't understand that their parents, grandparents, great grandparents allowed centurys of discrimination and now their children are paying the price.

[maigesheng]

I really like that this conversation remained civil. PB is insane and RM did a great job of tearing him to shreds while not being insulting. Bill Oreilley could never win an argument without being a bully. I dont care much for Rachel but every now and then she really impresses me. Good job.

I loved how she sometimes allowed him to vent his nonsense in its entirety but then other times made shure to let him know that he could not simply talk all over her. Great debate.

[TheBaffler]

Maddow can run rings around any conservative. Most of them are terrified of coming on her show.

It would've been delicious to see her on Firing Line, making the fraud Bill Buckley slump further into his chair.

[ErnestineBass]

~SNORT!~ Old Bill's eyes woulda been buggin' out like a Warner Brothers cartoon character.

[TheBaffler]

http://paulstadden.com/picts/TexTake.jpg

[Budokan]

It's not hard to out argue a slackjawed conservative who wants our country to fail.

http://kennethmarkhoover.com

[jackything]

Of course, what Pat the White Rat fails to mention is that the same "white men" first decimated the native population from coast to coast and what of that culture they couldn't destroy they put in open air concentration camps and continued to make and break treaties with them at the white men's whim and, in the meantime, captured and imprisoned on ships natives of another continent they had been raping, brought them in chains to this land and sold them like animals in a stockyard for any abuse the owner was willing to employ. No Caucasian culture in the history of this country has suffered in any way the horrors the African and native cultures have by the hands of our benevolent "white men"...so I don't want to hear about the poor Irish, the poor Italians, etc...

[dollbaby]

You Go!!!!!! And I am with you all the way.

[ek1386]

so the obvious solution would be to discriminate against white people today for things that happened hundreds of years ago. I'm sure those native americans lived in perfect peace and harmony with each other. Just like the africans who captured and sold their enslaved there own people long before white men arrived. Cruelty is a universal trait of humanity.

[NoSillyName]

Apparenlty PB is unaware of the slave labor that "built this country".

[dimplesmile7]

He is aware of it. Pat have a problem with acknowledging anything a minority does in this country. It is all wallpaper to him. His racism will not allow him to give credit to anyone that is not white.

[LeeCalif]

Yet Maddow continues giving Buchanan a stage.

She seems to think, like Obama, if she just tries hard enough, everyone will like and agree with her.

[TheBaffler]

Dialogue is a good thing. She has no naïve expectation that she can convince everyone to come to their senses, but just preaching to the choir doesn't accomplish much.

[MrWampler]

She gave him a rope, not a stage.

[Leota2]

True--which is what Obama does. Why do people think that presidents are supposed to act like George Bush and insult politicians and pundits on the other side on a daily basis. Civility and intelligence went out the window with Bush. Obama is being presidential--I think that LeeCalif is reacting to the idiot we had for the last 8 years.

[jimrs6]

Because she can't attract a quality non-liberal onto that show.

[nunzia]

He probably has a contract with msnbc. He spouts a certain number of hours of idiocy and they pay him a certain amount of money.