Rachel Maddow Duels With Pat Buchanan On Affirmative Action (VIDEO)

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Rachel Maddow got into a fierce argument with Pat Buchanan about affirmative action and the Supreme Court nomination of Sonia Sotomayor on Thursday night.

The epic battle included accusations, interruptions, and strong feelings with Maddow incredulous that Buchanan could not bring himself to admit that discrimination might play a part in the fact that 108 out of 110 U.S. Supreme Court justices have been white.

Buchanan said he considered Sotomayor unqualified and called her an "affirmative-action appointment" by Obama. When Maddow pressed him on why he was critical of affirmative action, Buchanan launched into a vigorous defense of whites who have been discriminated against.

When asked why the overwhelming majority of justices have been white, Buchanan declined to explicitly cite discrimination, but explained that "White men were 100% of the people that wrote the Constitution, 100% of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence, 100% of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, probably close to 100% of the people who died at Normandy. This has been a country built basically by white folks, who were 90% of the nation in 1960 when I was growing up and the other 10% were African-Americans who had been discriminated against. That's why."

When Maddow asked whether the reason that 108 out of 110 justice were white is because "white people deserved to have those positions," Buchanan answered: "A lot of people get up there for a lot of reasons."

An incredulous Maddow continued: "I would hope that you would see that picking 108 out of 110 white justices of the Supreme Court means that other people are not being appropriately considered... and the reason we have affirmative action is you recognize that the fact that people were discriminated against for hundreds of years means that you sort of gamed the system unless you give other people a leg up..."

When Buchanan began to interrupt her, Maddow said, "Hold on, I let you talk for a long time."

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Later, Buchanan compared the historically white make-up of the Supreme Court to an all-black track team or all-white hockey team, asking Maddow, "Why do you assume discrimination simply because you got one component on the Supreme Court... Where's the genius who is a woman who you think is a genius? Go for her..."

When Buchanan referenced the white firefighters who Sotomayor ruled against in a court ruling, claiming that they "are victims of that evil affirmative action," Maddow replied, "I couldn't disagree with you more."

Later, Buchanan attacked Maddow for being out of touch and seemed to slam judges who support affirmative action when he stated, "You know what they ought to do? They ought to defend the rights of white working-class folks."

Maddow cut him off and snapped, "I don't need a lecture from you about whether or not I know, what I think about working class Americans... For you to privilege race... and say that what we need to tap politically is white people's racial grievance, you're playing with fire and dating yourself."

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Comments

[ObamAtomic]

Uncle Pat World.

Not matter what an Hispanic woman can achieved,it wont be a satisfaction for Uncle Pat,
Uncle Pat was dismissive that the Hispanic girl strive reading Walt's Disney books,Uncle Pat
credit the girl from Wasilla,without academic background to advance in her own to be
almost president,side by side ,the girl from Wasilla can be a Supreme Court Justice
in Uncle Pat World.

[ObamAtomic]

Uncle Pat World.
Once upon a time,Whites,Blacks,Hispanics and Asians lived separated but equals,Uncle Pat
decided to integrate the Army,still separated but equals,White pilots, Black cooks,Uncle Pat
like the results.

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[emcd]

When little Pat was in private school, he used to hold onto all the toys. He came to believe that because he held all the toys, they rightfully belonged to him.

When another child (probably one of the "needy" children enrolled to show the elite school's magnanimity) tried to get one, he held them tighter, screamed "Mine!" and complained to the teacher. Teachers were inclined to prefer the lovely children from the "good" families.

So he found that strategy successful, and has used it successfully ever since. He continues to believe that because he and his fellow white privileged males hold most of the "toys" they are rightfully theirs. Any attempt to steal "their" possessions, must be met by loudly screaming, "Mine! You can't have any!"

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[BN2112]

Hey now let's all cut Pat some slack here. After all he's just a little cranky right now because he doesn't get to light the cross at the rally this weekend.

[Roger Strong]

Says a r@cist.

[maudefrickert]

gee.zer

[maudefrickert]

Pat Buchanan

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[ObamAtomic]

Buchannan is doing just fine,I posted that he made David Duke proud and he will receiving a hero award with the 3's K but out of respect *mod* scrubbed it.

[maudefrickert]

Preposterous censorship on this thread. Maybe the *mod* is Pat's sister Bay.

[ObamAtomic]

Maybe,but will silly ,lol

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[DawnK]

There is no point in talking to someone like Pat Buchanan regarding race. He is stuck in 1950 and loves it there. There are a whole lot of white men his age that feel like they are smarter than people with brown skin just because of the color of their skin. I know that racism spans all age groups but the baby boomers and older are just the worst. A lot of these people couldn't think themselves out of a paper bag but they think they are smarter than someone and more accomplishmed than someone like Judge Sotomayor or President Obama. They are not! They also say affirmative action is not needed and unfair but tell me, do you think someone like Pat Buchanan give someone with brown skin a chance if he interviewed them for a job. Nope, no way, no how. Also, being the descendent of a US President, he should just shut the f up because he has had opportunities that most of us, no matter our skin color, will ever have.

[MaryK2924]

Sadly, the only job opening Buchanan would interview a person of color for is a maid. His type will never ever change, the sooner they are completely out of power, the better off this country will be.

[DemonSmurf]

I can usually see Rachel's point, but in this case I found it interesting that she wouldn't address Pat's direct questions. Maybe if it were rephrased... isn't it better to have the best person qualified for a position, no matter what their background? Isn't if 'more fair'? Everyone should have the same opportunity at education, etc. But not everyone is going to excel. That's just reality. So how is it fair to push aside applicants for something in favor of someone who is LESS qualified. How is that racist???? I'm not denying racism exists and people do experience it, but that's not really my point. If applicant A is more qualified for a position than applicant B, but B is a non-white, how is that fair for A? I thought political correctness and affirmative action and all that stuff was about fairness. Or am I missing something.

[Beegood]

You are missing something. Just because somebody benefited from affirmative action doesn't mean they are less qualified. Didn't GWB graduate from Yale? Affirmative action is a response to balance out an old boys network that still exists. There are alot of advantages from being a white male that have built up over generations.

[termgirl]

Pat wants the US to be 100% white. Period. His talk of affiirmative action is nothing but a smoke screen. The "founding fathers" were white males and that's good enought for him. He can't deal with changing demographics.

[AkashicRecords]

108 of 110 justices have been white men? How unfair.

[AprilPA]

Actually, it's been 106 of 110 SC justices that were white men. 2 were black men and two were white women. Maddow said that 108 of 110 justices have been men, including the 2 black men.

[flyovercountry1]

Agreed there have been racial issues in the past....going forward, please allow a meritocracy. Let us all compete for what we want. Level the playing field and then get out of the way. Those willing to work hard should win!!!

[thefooligan5]

I agree with that in theory but as it stands, white kids already have a leg up by attending better elementary, junior high and high schools. Not to mention that children from richer households tend to read more and eat more healthily among other things. So even after levelling the school system (which would require a great overhaul) there are still many socio-economic inequalities that people are going to have to deal with.

[pumpkin]

Not to mention the fact that the big business world is a very small community. People know each other from prep school, the ivy leagues, business school, the country club, their fathers, etc...

[VSamuels]

The idea that one can usher in a nation built economically on the backs of the downtrodden, while finding objectionable that these same downtrodden seek regress through Affirmative Action, is absolutely and ethically reprehensible. To do such a thing, requires that the downtrodden be asked to ignore the obvious financial inequities that continue to naturally give others a political, social and economic edge in all facets of American life.

Those announcing that this is the place for a starting point, too often are those leading the charge that their Libertarian viewpoint is paramount to dealing with the still unwillingness within the dominate culture, to actually face up to the realities of centuries of racism and economic starvation of these non white communities. It is akin to one who owns a Porche factory now agreeing to now allow the owner of a patched up non-motorize bike to enter and compete in a cross country trek. It simply does not compute, except if those who own the factory are incapable of dealing with the 'priviledges' [they have] except to discount them, because they first DO NOT have the compassion, empathy and or willingness to acknowledge the 'impact' of their riches.

Technically we must all work from the same spot, but the details of doing so much also include a recognition of the systemic inequalities which must be still be eliminated as progress takes place.

Some want progress, but don't want to deal with work it involves.

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[MontanaSouth]

And Affirmative Action insures that those hard working individuals who achieve excellence are not barred from success by racial, religious or gender bias. Until there are no more Pat Buchanan's we will need Affirmative Action. If I were born a decade earlier, I would not be were I am, enjoying the enjoying the profession that I love. I have the life I have because of strong women who grabbed the opportunity during WWII to fight their way into school's of veterinary medicine and prove that women are just as capable as men in this field. And, because of Affirmative Action, admissions committees had to look at my qualifications not my gender. The world is changing. Because of Affirmative Action, larger and larger numbers of minorities have been able to breakdown the OWG stereotypes and, in my opinion, have made OWG's more and more angry that they have lost the position of power they think they deserve.

[ojim]

Dear Pat, the firemen of New Haven were not being discriminated against because they were white. There are many cultural biases in our country - because there are many diverse cultural backgrounds. So, if a test under seemingly normal circumstances is aced by one race and flunked by others, then maybe, just maybe, there was an unrecognized cultural bias within the test and perhaps it should be reexamined to make it a bit more culturally neutral.

[VSamuels]

It is also helpful to note, that the TEST in question replaced an older version which was not being questioning by the plaintiffs in this suit. Those who argue, in terms of making this a white v. black thing, are typically predisposed to omit those facts which are inconvenient to the argument. The issue is more of using a new test that wasn't itself provable to determining it could measure the fitness of career fireman to succeed in management. Those like Buchanan find it useful to produce their own narratives because they come armed with agendas, and the overall argument in this case is secondary to what then he hopes to advance in consolidating the republican base's angst against non whites.

In a perfect world, the fitness of the TEST would have been on trial as it should have been; rather than having the republican chattering class use this suit as a litmus test on Affirmative Action. The attorney representing the City of Hartford made it very plain what the question was being considered, but in the news world, shifting the matter to the hot button issue of race was too irresisible and a ratings magnet.

Hopefully after some cooler heads prevail, the issue of the fitness of the test will re-surface and it can be resolve outside of the Pat Buchanans of the world.

[Bongborg]

Racism is just the affirmative action of the past. They needed all those white judges to make sure no one trampled on the god-given rights of white men to lord it over all creation. Affirmative action, plain & simple. Who knows what would have happened other wise? America might not have been built, and then we'd have a big hole in the Earth between the Atlantic and Pacific.

[Eykis]

No big surpr4ise here about Pat's racism. For those of us old enough to remember Watergate, Pat has not cvhanged since NIXON. Rachel was polite saying he was "dating himself". He is OLD. He is 71 and thinks like someone from the pre-60s generation. He is rich, retire him. I would like to hear from more of the younger people, like Rachel, who is a Rhodes Scholar and holds a Ph.D., and those even younger than Rachel. There are some brilliant young people out there whose voices should be heard -- I think it would be the destructions of the Rethugs - they would then find out how the REAL AMERICANS of our country think -- real Americans being the ones who want to live in the 21st century.

[Eykis]

Excuse the typos - keyboard problem!

[flyovercountry1]

Also, you can't just "appoint" or "assign" women and minorities into positions and claim your place in the business world. It takes hard work and investment. Why not celebrate those who have succeeded i.e. Robert Johnson(BET), Clarence Thomas(S C Justice) Margaret Thatcher(PM) and follow their example instead of hoping that someone will legislate that women and minorities should get a break.....GIVE ME A BREAK

[pumpkin]

Clarence Thomas? What exactly has he done lately?

And, the only woman you could come up with is Margaret Thatcher?

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan

[ObamAtomic]

Clarence Thomas(S C Justice) ,whom he benefited the most with "Affirmative Action"
after he achieved his dream,he still denying to others what he use to advance himself.

I will lol now until ,I don't know! HAHA!

[MontanaSouth]

Excuse me, but all of those examples (except Margaret) achieved after Affirmative Action was in place. Do you honestly think that Clarence Thomas was not an "Affirmative Action baby".

[Cooper1608]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754883/-A-history-lesson-for-Pat-Buchanan