Chuck Todd And Glenn Greenwald Debate Torture And The Media

I've been remiss in not following up on the podcast discussion that Salon's Glenn Greenwald and MSNBC's Chuck Todd gave yesterday, that I previewed on these pages. I got a lot of emails from people who found the discussion to be really lively and valuable. I've only read the transcript myself, but I was really impressed at how engrossing and candid it was. Both men deserve big-time kudos for making this happen, and getting it done so quickly.

If you haven't listened to it by now, you can catch the podcast here, or peep the transcript by clicking here.

Folks know where I stand on the issue of torture and accountability -- including Glenn and Chuck-- so I'm not going to get into a prosecution of either argument. But I'll pull one part out:

GG: Let me ask you about that, then. If a president can find, as a president always will be able to find, some low-level functionary in the Justice Department -- a John Yoo -- to write a memo authorizing whatever it is the president wants to do, and to say that it's legal, then you think the president ought to be immune from prosecution whenever he breaks the law, as long as he has a permission slip from the Justice Department? I mean, that's the argument that's being made. Don't you think that's extremely dangerous?

CT: That could be dangerous, but let me tell you this: Is it healthy for our reputation around the world - and this I think is that we have TO do what other countries do more often than not, so-called democracies that struggle with their democracy, and sit there and always PUT the previous administration on trial - you don't think that we start having retributions on this going forward?

Look, I am no way excusing torture. I'm not excusing torture, and I bristle at the attack when it comes on this specific issue. But I think the political reality in this, and, I understand where you're coming from, you're just saying, just because something's politically tough doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. That's, I don't disagree with you from 30,000 feet. And that is an idealistic view of this thing. Then you have the realistic view of how this town works, and what would happen, and is it good for our reputation around the world if we're essentially putting on trial the previous administration? We would look at another country doing that, and say, geez, boy, this is--

GG: So what do you think happens - I think what has destroyed our reputation is announcing to the world that we tolerate torture, and telling the world we don't --

CT: We have elections, we also had an election where this was an issue. A new president, who came in there, and has said, we're not going to torture, we're going to do this, and we're going to do this--

GG: What do you think should happen when presidents--

CT: Is that not enough? Isn't that enough?

GG: When, generally, if I go out and rob a bank tomorrow, what happens to me is not that I lose an election. What happens is to me is that I go to prison.

All I can say is that if John Yoo wants to do me a solid, it'd be really cool of him to whip up some "Jason Is Allowed To Knock Over One Or Two Jewelry Stores" memos.

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Comments

[thebigmouth]

I'm sorry but Todd is not a journalist, his views of what this country can take are short sighted and law is secondary to politics. His ethics are suspect. Damn the truth and justice, lets spin.

[Exexecution]

I agree. He is no more than the newly minted White House spokes-twit.

[GrumpyinAZ]

Torture is illegal
Waterboarding is Torture
We are obligated to prosecute War Crimes by Treaty
Chuck todd is out to lunch

[SouthernYankeeBelle]

The right says the democrats are wrong because God told us to go out and torture.

[Strywever]

I think Todd's totally out to lunch on this point. It will hurt our reputation worse if we don't put the key players of the previous administration on trial for these crimes.

What exactly is the reputation Todd thinks sweeping it all under the carpet will protect? I hate to break it to him, but our current reputation isn't a plus. People in other countries already know all about the torture program, probably from some different perspectives than we have. They've also heard plenty of nour pious "democracy" and "rule of law" lectures. They are watching to see if we practice what we preach. If we don't, our credibility is even more damaged than it is already.

[kindGSL]

They have been following my first person accounts of it too.

[JePense]

Todd is too young for this conversation. Nixon actually ran paddy wagons through Washington DC picking up groups of college-aged adults and hauling them off to jail -- without cause and without charges. He suspended the constitution out of his great fear that college students were conducting protests against the Vietnam War. Among the activities forbidden during this era -- flying kites on the Washington Mall on May 1. For decades since - there is always a commemorative flying of kites on the Washington DC Mall -- to this day.

The Watergate hearings took place on television (not CSPAN -- the 3 networks) and folks stayed home to watch or took TVs to work. The transcripts of the Watergate tapes -- finally released by court decisions -- were published in the newspapers.

All of this transparency included a commission that recommended changes to our laws to preclude a repeat of the outrages of the Nixon era. The FISA court is a direct descendent of the recommendations.

All over the world, truth and reconciliation commissions have stared down the previous regime's crimes against their democratic principles and made recommendations and peace by doing so. The Bush crimes will not peacefully recede into the sunset. It is important to address and dispose of the Bush-Cheney crimes promptly so that we can all move on. Otherwise, one president liked torture so we were a nation that tortured, the next president didn't like torture, so we'll stop doing it until another president comes along

[robertny49]

Excellent post. It was sickening when Arnold Schwarzenneger mentioned Nixon at the 2004 Republican National Convention here in New York and the crowd gave him a standing ovation.

[troika]

Thats how the demented republican party operates. Clap for the matinee idol who thoroughly destroyed the state. Whitman wants to purchase the governorship for a few million dollars albeit her own money. Ms. Fiorina wants to the buy the senate seat for a few million dollars and all of them want to be politicians without knowing what the two posts mean. Fiorina on the other hand had ruined the much coveted HP. Now she is in a mood to destroy whatever is left over after the Terminator departs. Why should we vote for them? Any candidate bankrolling his/her own election should be routed completely. We don't need them. Californians, please make sure you vote fore a wise candidate who will bring back California to its original and innovative status. Thanks in advance.

[troika]

Arnold seems to be living in the past. No wonder California is where it is today. The Californians are not entirely blameless in this. They recalled a governor who was duly elected and in place put the Terminator, thinking he would terminate all the ills in the state. The man has had ZERO experience in politics. They were so enamored by his film status (whatever that was) that they voted in droves for him. The first order of business was to revoke the car tax. Folks believe me the car tax was a paltry amount in a year, anywhere between $25 to $60 per car. Had he not revoked this, we would NOT be in the pickle we are today. Californians fell for this and HOORAY! we are here. The grass is NOT ALWAYS GREEN ON THE OTHER SIDE.

[muffler]

Last time it took a presidential pardon to stop a president from being put on trial. We had a trial in the Senate and they would have impeached Nixon. Chuck Todd is weak and he sees America and unable to handle the event. If we don't go after these guys by claiming it will only damage America then we provide the roadwork for the next violation of the rights and laws We The People let them manage. No- there should be no easy road for any one. Bush didn't have the nerve to have Congress change law... he had his lawyers just say the law didn't apply. Not the same thing! The law was broken - on purpose.

[JMorgan]

Republican congressman Mac Thornberry tried to float what Chuck Todd is saying last April on Hardball, and Chris Matthews had him for lunch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPhldpCfIKk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LZWJqKW1jw

It's really troubling that Chuck Todd obviously heard this and it resonated as a good idea.

[AZterritory]

Listening to Chuck Todd IS torture.

[troika]

Chuck Todd is an immature journalist if one could call him that . The guy was on MSNBC throughout the campaign and all of a sudden he is the WH correspondent. I can poke a lot of holes in his discussion. This is what MSNBC could come up with? Truly, in my opinion he comes across as a CONDESCENDING FLAKE.

[Bushwillresign]

Bush tried to run the country like the CEO of a big business. He did whatever he wanted to do. That might be the way of the big business in America, but that's not the way America works. Or is it?

[lordmi]

That was not the way America should work.

[Donald]

As Chuck Todd noted, "Then you have the realistic view of how this town works, and what would happen, and is it good for our reputation around the world if we're essentially putting on trial the previous administration?"

That, in a nutshell, is what's wrong here, which is the Beltway's collectively patronizing notion that its privileged denizens, and they alone, know what's best for the country. Such undeserved hubris should not pass unchallenged.

[JMorgan]

Chuck Todd didn't graduate college. He dropped out, was a poli sci major with a minor in music. He's married to a conservative Democratic political operative, including Gary Condit, Jim Webb, Fritz Hollings, Bob Graham, Patty Murray.

We're talking about people who want to desperately be on the inside, accepted by the insiders who run the world from Washington.

[JMorgan]

Correction: He's married to a conservative Democratic political operative, who has worked only for conservative corporate Democrats, including Gary Condit, Jim Webb, Fritz Hollings, Bob Graham, Patty Murray.

[lordmi]

Chuck is very professional and almost all his forecasts were true. Specially in the last elections.
I do wish Bush administration should be punished.
But all this mess is in no good for the country.
Is it any balance it?
For now I do not see it.

[Romeover]

This mess is not good for the country.

That's why it needs to be cleaned up. Like crime. Which it is.

You clean up crime by identifying the perpetrators and the masterminds, putting them on trial, convicting the guilty, and punishing them.

[JillScumber]

Chuck is getting lighter and lighter in gravitas. He is so far out of his league. And his paunch is growing as he attends celebrations of his great success. He was a great political numbers guy. And now he is a goat.

[fishingriver]

Todd- "....and sit there and always PUT the previous administration on trial - you don't think that we start having retributions on this going forward?"

The administration's party was a majority and protected them when they were in office. Without putting them on trial now, there would be no justice, no law served, no accountability what so ever. President's will use the precedent set by Bush to ignore the law. In the end, their supporters will sound exactly like Todd does today. If Bush doesn't face accountability by the Democratic parties insistence, I will never vote for them again. This is THE issue to me. Freedom is non-existent in a state where our representatives are not subject to the laws that citizens must observe. I don't give a f_ck what they call themselves.

[kindGSL]

I agree, that is why I think we need to all seriously think about starting a brand new political party.

[Exexecution]

I also heartily agree, especially with the comment 'This is THE issue to me'.

[dl63]

OMG...CT is a disgrace.

[army193]

Now the rule of law has now changed for Politician­s....If you break the law it's up to there constituents to vote them out with no other penalty to law is how I would interpret his reasoning. None political figures must be tried under the law for there crimes, since there is no election they can be held to. The rule is that no person is above the law except when one yells from out it is political prosecution from the other side.

[Bushwillresign]

So Bush broke the law for 8 long years, then was voted out. I wasn't sure exactly how democrazy works.

[JMorgan]

Republican congressman Mac Thornberry tried to float that last April on Hardball, and Chris Matthews had him for lunch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPhldpCfIKk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LZWJqKW1jw

It's really troubling that Chuck Todd obviously heard this and it resonated as a good idea.

[CyberGal619]

Chuck again demonstrates how out of his element his truly is.

Chuck is a good number cruncher .... definitely not a journalist!