House Panel Passes Tax Increase For Health Plan

WASHINGTON — The House Ways and Means Committee has passed legislation to revamp health care, approving tax increases on the wealthy to help pay for the plan.

The committee voted 23 to 18 to approve the bill. Three Democrats joined all committee Republicans in voting against the bill.

Over the next decade, the bill would impose $544 billion in new taxes on families making more than $350,000.

The vote came early Friday, more than 16 hours after members started debating dozens of Republican amendments that were ultimately rejected. Republicans complained that the bill would hurt small business owners who pay business taxes on their individual returns. Democrats say the tax increases will affect only 4.1 percent of tax filers who report small business income.

Comments

[Tazru]

The new game is "3-D Paper, Rock Scissors".

We are tired of "King of the Hill" and "Checkers" all the time.

[freddiefreeloader]

I wonder how much the average American worker, or his employer spends on private healthcare insurance every month, and how much the average American would have to spend a month to enroll in the public option and cancel his private insurance?

[LeftRight]

The numbers aren't out yet, but I've seen some indications that were we to simply double the current Medicare tax we could cover everyone who's uninsured, and increasing it to a mere 5% would pay for everyone in the country.

[Avanti2]

If you find where this projection is made I certainly would like to see it. The Main Reason that Medicare is in trouble and heading to the red is that the Government has not had the balls to increase the Medicare Tax, either the tax on workers or the tax on retirees, for over 25 years. The last real tax increase was repealed way back in the Carter Administration. Since then, increases have only been at the rate of inflation but not more than 3% in any one year.

[wdw505]

my married EMPs pay 110 every two weeks........i pay just over 900/per month for each family

[Tazru]

Still trying to get us to believe that you are en employer?

lolz

wataputz

[freddiefreeloader]

How much more could you afford to pay your employees if you dropped their healthcare and let them go with a public option.?

[ChknFngr]

Great! Now I have no incentive to make any money. The government will just give it to me!

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

.....times a wasting.....better go make your money now......wasting your time
posting ridiculous comments is wasting time....time is money...
.

[Disdain]

It's called national welfare. Take away the incentive for people to work and they will not. Those who do work hard will shoulder the care through the punitive taxation that are being leveled at every turn.

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

....FALSE.....!
...
.

[LeftRight]

On the other hand, when you create, not a welfare system, but a floor below which you will not let people fall, the incentive is still there to be productive, but you don't have to worry about how bad it will hurt if you DO fall!!!

[Gdebs]

Distain,
I agree. Those little rich kids should be told to go out and get a job after we raise the (death tax) to 100 %. Lazy little bastu#ds.

[helonias]

Like the Bush's an trust funds?

[LeftRight]

You Betcha!!! Considering that we aren't talking about that, you don't have to worry about it!! On the other hand, now you won't have to declare bankruptcy if you were to develop some horrible disease like cancer and have to quit your job (or get fired from it....)

[Avanti2]

What we should have is a Government Sponsored National health Care Catastrophic Insurance Bill.

[helonias]

Like A Bush trust fund.

Just ask Neil and his S&L's

[mero909]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

That's pretty much sums up my thoughts on Universal Healthcare.

[Tazru]

You should have changed the avatar so we wouldn't remember you.

[kimleehan]

I live in the U.S. not Canada, how come I have to be put on a waiting list for healthcare? I mean I don't mind waiting my turn but whats with all this line jumping stuff all about.

[warlover]

Thats a new one, Americans complaining about wait time for healthcare, Its because you did'nt spend $300 a month for private healthcare insurance.

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

..try $700 IS YOU ARE OVER 50 YEARS OLD...

[LeftRight]

For PRIVATE health insurance?? Cause I'm spending that for employer sponsored health insurance. If I were to go out and get it from, say, my car insurance guy, it would be closer to $1500 per month!!

[OliverTwist]

We don't ask the CBO to tell us whether we should spend a trillion dollars over ten years to fight wars.

We don't ask the CBO whether we are getting a good deal giving oil drilling rights to companies.

We shouldn't ask the CBO to tell us whether we are getting a good deal on health care for our citizens.

[kmorri107]

Now you are just being silly.

[thehoopoe]

OTwist is right though,

it's not the CBO's business to make political declarations.

[Avanti2]

Here is a Health Care Bill Tax Hike that has potential to hurt the average American workers:

"Sens. Edward Kennedy and Chris Dodd the chief architects of the AHCA, have established the dollar amount employers with 25 or more workers would be penalized for not offering health insurance. They set these penalties at $750 annually per full-time employee, and at $375 annually per part-time worker.

This dollar amount is significant for two reasons. First, small businesses, which employ almost half of working Americans according to the National Small Business Association (NSBA), often don"t provide health insurance to employees because they simply cannot afford to do so. Adding $750 per worker to those cash-strapped businesses" overhead costs will make cuts somewhere else necessary. Whether those savings come in the form of employee pay cuts, freezes on hiring, or layoffs, workers are the ones who will feel the pain from this attempt by Washington to "help" them by penalizing their employers.

Second, larger employers, which currently shell out an average of $4,704 a year for individual workers and $12,680 for those with dependents (from the Kaiser Family Foundation) will see the option of a $750 annual fine as an incredibly desirable alternative to continuing to pay thousands of dollars for every employee"s health insurance. By dropping the coverage they currently offer workers, larger employers will be able to save anywhere between four and twelve thousand dollars on health benefits alone " a no-brainer of a decision."

[Chaimirija]

Would it seem with the public option coming into being in 2013 that they will start dropping coverage in the next 3 years?

[Avanti2]

That would appear to be the case or the logical assumption. This statement by the President "You will be able to keep you current Health Care" is really not true since it is fully expected that many Corporations will drop there coverage and go to the Public Option.

[Jalepeno]

As long as Congress and the President are required to be on the plan pass it. If it is not good enough for our employees why would we, the employers want to use this plan.

[Avanti2]

There is a specific EXEMPTION in the Bill for Federal Employees including Congress and the President. In other words, they will be able to keep what they have. They will not be required to take the Public Option.

I'll post the reference to this in the Bill once I find it again.

[thehoopoe]

who's paying you to post this over and over again?

There are hardship exemptions for the affected small businesses. The large ones are mandated to offer benefits. They can't just drop them.

[Avanti2]

Not completely true. Yes, there are hardship provisions and the corresponding paperwork and review boards to approve or deny the applications. While the review is pending however, the fees will still have to be paid.

There is no provision in the Bill that I can find that would prohibit a 25 person or more corporation from dropping there coverage and either paying the employee fine or subscribing to the Public Option as an employee benefit.

No body is paying me to post. I'm just an old retired guy with lots of time on my hands and am just very interested in reading everything I can about how this Bill would impact my daughters and grand kids. This Bill won't effect me one bit. If they change Medicare I'll just buy a different Supplement that will cover for the changes.

[Avanti2]

If you think this through, you will see that this employee health care tax will only hurt small business. Your local family owned cleaners for example, or the guy that has a successful plumbing supply or you local electrician or heating and air conditioning firm or wholesale pool supply warehouse. In my area, all these folks would have to pay the employee fine.

Now big firms like Exon, GE or Goldman Sachs or even a small bank or car dealership, would probably convert to the Public Option either out of greed or competitive factors in order to save all that health care expenditure,

End result: The little guy subsidizes the big Corporations ---- again!

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

....FALSE....
...YOU DON'T KNOW THE PLAN..!

[LeftRight]

Actually, most of those business types that you list will not be required to do ANYTHING, because generally speaking they don't employ enough people to qualify.

[Disdain]

It's a no brainer. You tax the smaller businesses enough and you effectively freeze their future hiring abilities and force them to layoff existing workers. That money has to come from somewhere. As a small business owner, between the property tax increase, the threat of income tax increases in the next couple of years in addition to the punitive success tax to cover healthcare for everyone, one has no choice but to get rid of employees. For those larger corporation who can afford to do so, they will simply move to more business friendly environment. Like it or not without a profit, there is no need to go into business.

[wdw505]

well said

[OliverTwist]

President Obama and the Democratic leadership are doing a terrible job explaining that increased government expenditures to ensure competitive public health care coverage for Americans will leverage dramatic reductions in the cost assumed by American citizens and now paid to uncompetitive insurance companies and drug companies and some other groups.

All the CBO has done is say that it will cost the government more money. The media like CNN is willfully misstating that in such a way as to predictably cause ordinary Americans to believe it will cost them more money - which is exactly what it won't do for most Americans.

Why is the message being mismanaged?

[Tazru]

$$$$$

[Avanti2]

Please read my nest post on the Employer Fines and possible end result.

[thehoopoe]

who's paying you to post misleading out of context statements about the plan over and over again?

[Chaimirija]

It will cost the government and it's citizens more money because all the bill really does is require everyone to purchase health insurance from the very companies that wrote the bill. Just do a search on

The board of the America's Health Insurance Plans

[LeftRight]

And THAT'S where I have a major problem with it!!!

[pipetoe]

How about passing a bill that allows time for the American taxpayer to read the bill.
That would include writing it so that a person with a college degree at least and understand it...
How many of you have read the bill and can answer questions about how your health care will be affected?

[thehoopoe]

I can.

What college did you go to?

[republicanforlife]

Did you read the bill? Funny that the people voting on it dont have the time. When all who sign onto the healthcare bill give up their elite healthcare and use what we(thats you and I,us, Democrat, Republican, Independent and Other) then we can talk, until they are brought back to earth and voted off their lofty thrones nothing good for this country will happen!!!

[pipetoe]

Anyone should be able to read it...Maybe you are a lawyer type....
and Have you read it?

[pipetoe]

and also what difference does it make what college I went to...
University of TEXAS....What about you....HARVARD

[Disdain]

You've read the whole bill, examined the pros and con of every aspect of it and decided that it's what's best for 300 millions Americans? What school for the gifted did you go to? You must currently be working for some big name corporation or university in their research department with your amazing abilities? Which one is it?

[Chaimirija]

I read it

[sc300nc]

C'mon, it doesn't matter to the huffpo types. It's a gimmee afterall. They will take anything Obama gives out. Since most of them don't pay taxes anyway, it's all good.

[Tazru]

If that is the case, why post in here? It seems like a good thing for everyone if you went back to whatever Right Wing Site agrees with you.

[Chaimirija]

It is not a gimme for most. It is a give your money to the insurance companies.

[LeftRight]

uh huh.... That's why I'm happy to pay almost 25% of my income into federal income taxes? And another 15% or so in various other taxes. See most of us DON'T mind paying our taxes, because we understand that it's just like when we pay to buy a house, or buy food, or buy a car, or anything else. The only difference is that we want our taxes to go to something that benefits ALL of us, not just Xe!!!

[sc300nc]

Because the more the public learns about their program, the less they like it. That's why they want ti rammed through, just like cap and tax.

[pipetoe]

We can not allow that...we must read it and understand and let our congressmen/women know how we feel about it.

[Chaimirija]

True. Read it. It is not progressive by a long shot

[Neonmoon]

How many of the people voting on it have read it?

[Waltfl]

How unfair, singles making over 350k a year have to pay higher taxes, how wrong, how bad!

That's the Republican dilemma. They all scream about taxes, but when something like 9/11 happens, all the Republican sheeple come running to big brother, like 3rd graders who got their rears kicked in the school yard.

"Bin Laden is going to destroy my little farm in Idaho, only the great leader G.W. Bush with his Homeland Security mega government can save me now!"

Where is all the money for your big government coming from, Republicans? Charity?

[wdw505]

i never wanted a big government..........i would have liked to vote for a conservative but since both parties did not put up a conservative........bush was the lesser of the evils available

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

...Hey business man......don't you have a bisiness to run..?
...You don't run a business... and you know it...!
.

[Chaimirija]

Unfortunately, they just might extend the tax increase to the middle class.

[hearsyoursign]

Geez!

They will HAVE to extend the tax increase to the middle class, because once the WEALTHY pull up stakes and move overseas - there will be no WEALTHY left to tax.

The good news - now those of you making $30,000/year will be considered the WEALTHY ones. But that won't last long because it would require you to have a job making that much and once all the small businesses close shop, there will be no more $30,000/year salaries.

Glad to help.

Hold on to your hats, boys - it's gonna be a bumpy ride, all the way to Hades! And to think, hundreds of thousands of citizens thru the years willingly gave their lives for this country to come to this!

[pipetoe]

The only thing government should be about first and foremost is physically protect this country...That is their most important job.

[Waltfl]

That's what Obama is trying with health care reform. He is trying to physically protect me from the greed of insurance companies, and help the 18.000 Americans who die every year, due to a lack of affordable health care.

[4real]

Poor rich people. All that money they s tole with their ponzi schemes and wall street games is going to have to be paid back. Sniff.

[ChknFngr]

Not every person who makes over 350k operates a ponzi scheme or wall street game...stop generalizing and stereotyping

[4real]

Obviously I'm not talking about those people. And people who make over 350k they'll be alright too.

[Tazru]

Sounds like the excuse my parents gave me for catholic school.

[PaxEterna]

There's only one system worth discussing or fighting for:

SINGLE PAYER

Why did Obama take it off the table?

Because he and most of our leaders are on the MIC take: medical industrial complex.

What's being proposed is worse than a catastrophe in the making ...it is criminal.

It is like the big dig in MA: everyone involved is on the take, the graft inherent in the design will keep the profiteers in the driver's seat for years, and the people will be shuttled down the path of paying more for less until there are only two classes of people in America: those who are rich and can pay for anything, and the rest of us who work the capitalist system for essentially the benefit of the few at the top while we get nothing: no schools worth going to, no colleges we can afford, no housing that we can pay for, etc. etc.

Welcome to the biggest betrayal of the American people since GWB sold us weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the forever wars we can never win.

Wake up, America! The party you thought you were invited to has closed its doors, and democracy has been barred from entering.

We the people are no longer welcome. But we still pay the tab ....

[wdw505]

through out time the poor are needed to do the basic labor........but they cannot cost more to keep than they produce

[Tazru]

Are you quoting Ayn Rand to us in here again today?

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

....We don't live in feudalist England fo the 1500"s....
Your Idea is outdated and you should be ashamed of even thinking
that way......
....You are not civilized.....!

[wdw505]

i more interested in the unemployment numbers for democrat vs republican.......i know of many businesses doing targeted layoffs 90-95% democrat or non-voters. get someone not of your state to get the voter lists and someone else gets their voter lists meet in the middle and trade lists. now there is no paper or electronic trail.......terminate until the layoff number is near then toss the rest to republicans........of course these practices are unethical and i would never practice them in my company....or just walk the parking lot and look at bumper stickers.......since a greater percentage of businesses or owned by conservatives........the unemployment numbers should be interesting to see the stats on republican vs democrat

[VotingPresent]

Free Healthcare. Yes!!

[sc300nc]

Remember, you get what you pay for.

[ProudNeoCon]

In this case you get what other pay for

[Blufftonian]

Vote out the den of thieves.