Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[MikeHermit]

I have been pondering the results for a bit now. The vote bugged me. The more I think about it the more it does so.

Only 8 No's concerning the seperation of Church and State? 8? Seriously, these guys (ok, not the House, the Senate, but still, the Legislative Branch) have this week had hearings on the nomination of Sonia Sotomayor and whether or not she will follow the words or spirit of the Constitution, Bill of Rights and other ammendments.

Then they completely ignore those documents and pass a frivolous bill that is unconstitutional. Why? Some sure believe we need God on every government building. After all, they cannot be effective without God's help.

But what about the others? Don't want to offend the Christian voters? So you ignore the Constitution to pander to Christian voters? Is that how this nation is to be run? Pandering to lobbyists and evangelicals?

WHAT ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS?

Oh, that's right. they don't vote or donate campaign funds.

So the Courts have to decide. And deciding that this would be a violation of the Seperation of Church and State. But to say it is a violation would make them "Activist" judges.

[FRobert]

It's not surprising to me that they would want to put their gang-related graffiti on public buildings. I see various forms all over the cities. What is surprising to me is that the ones who seem most to "trust in God" are the ones who want to spend the most on the Department of Defense. It's like they don't trust in God.

[MikeHermit]

It does make sense, actually. They believe God gives them the tools, be it the sword or the Predator. Thus they must use these tools. Especially if it is an attack on a muslim nation.

You will see them violate our military duty often. From commiting our troops to wars that will both attack Muslim nations and make their defense contract companies rich to sprinting and distributing Farsi, Pashtun, and other language Bibles. And evangelical Chaplins will promote to the soldiers to distribute these Bibles, and not serve time in Leavenworth (the Chaplins).

Our military is a tool God gave us to spread Christianity and to fight the Muslim mennace.

[JayDDrew]

Throughout history, the vast majority of acts of war, terrorism, torture, etc. were done in the name of a deity, with the presumed blessing of a deity, or because of oppression under the presumed auspice of a deity.

[LeftRight]

That doesn't violate the separation of church and state. If they were to inscribe "In Jesus Christ we trust", then THAT could be a violation. That's why the SCOTUS has allowed religious prayers at the opening of legislative sessions, provided that they do not mention anything other than "god"

[RuinedSaint]

The problem is that many in the Christian Cultists point at these things as proof that America is a Christian Cult Nation. If these same cultists were more familiar with the Aronow v. United States decision, they'd realize that what they point out as supposed proof should actually be viewed as a heresy in their eyes.

[paganmist]

Not everyone believes in God. Native Americans believe in totems and spirits, and that is their religion. Why doesn't it say, "In Gods, Spirits, and/or Divine Energies Some of Us Trust"? That would actually be the truth.

The government represents all of the people, and all of the people believe different things. That is why Church and State must be separate - because unless the State is endorsing EVERY spiritual belief and lack thereof, it will always be biased against someone.

[MikeHermit]

God is a religious incantation. While other religions may have borrowed God, it is still a Christian word describing their diety.

If you wanted to make it secular yet all inclusive you would need to make it read:

"In God, In No God, In Yahweh, In Allah, In Satan, In Nature We Trust"

I am sure I am missing some.

Tell me, which one of those do Christians support? Satan? Nature? Allah? No God?

No. Christians accept God as their diety. Otherwise if if just described deities it would be god, not God.

God is religious, religiously tinged, a violation of the Seperation of Church and State. The SCOTUS is wrong on this. They don't always uphold the constitution.

A Supreme Court judge who does not abide by the Constitution is the activist. We have had activist judges for far too long.

I found it funny when, on the first day of the hearings Sessions wanted to caution on Activist Judges who sought to remove prayer in schools and God from the pledge, then at the end wanted to make sure there was respect for all religions.

You cannot have it both ways.

State sponsored God is not respect for my religious beliefs. And it very much is a violation of the Seperation of Church and State. To say otherwise is denial, ignorance, or a flat out lie.

[newworldman777]

"But what about the others? Don't want to offend the Christian voters? So you ignore the Constitution to pander to Christian voters? Is that how this nation is to be run? Pandering to lobbyists and evangelicals?"

Ummm...yea­h. Sadly, that is how America operates. When a democratic system like ours chooses its leaders by allowing our electorate (comprised of 80% Christians) to vote for them, then the political candidates have to pander to the Christians in order to get elected and subsequently remain in office. Am I really disseminating breaking news here?

[JayDDrew]

No, not breaking news, but "truthiness".

[dutchman]

Okay all - it's freaking beautiful day here in Boston - time to go out and enjoy it!!

To my fellow non-believers - keep fighting the fight. We must be eternally guarded against ignorance and theocratic notions.

And to all of you christians, please learn to practice what you preach. The postings I see from you bear no resemblance to what jesus (supposedly) said. Learning to tolerate those that don' share your beliefs would be a great place to start.

Peace to you all,

Dutchman

[macintoshsauce]

When you say we Christians are to practice what we preach, are we supposed to put up with comments like we are ignorant, stupid, have fairy tales, etc., etc., etc.?

Screw you @ssmunch.

[RuinedSaint]

According to your "turn the other cheek" doctrine, yes, you are supposed to put up with such comments.

But don't let something like your savior's teachings get in the way of what you would rather do.

[FRobert]

The only part of the posting to which you responded that was addressed to Christians called for tolerance and to "practice what you preach." Do you really have a problem with that? The name-calling seemed over-reactive.

[paganmist]

"When you say we Christians are to practice what we preach, are we supposed to put up with comments like we are ignorant, stupid, have fairy tales, etc., etc., etc.?"

Uhm... YES.

I was raised a Christian. The Bible demand that instead of seeking vengeance, we trust in Him to do so. It is for us to behave with Christ-like behavior, which basically involves doing what even some non-Christians tell their children to do:

Walk away.

No one's forcing you to stay here. And if you choose to stay, no one's forcing you to read negative posts towards you. But if you choose to read them, no one's forcing you to respond to them with expletives.

See that? At three different forks in the road, you could make a choice that leads you to being more like Christ, but you've turned away from the right path each time.

You may not be perfect, but a Christian when faced with their imperfection seeks to be better.

Also, as a representative of God (which is what you are when you speak of him), you are supposed to exhibit behaviors which reflect well on Him. How do you think He feels when someone claims to speak for Him, but uses the word @ssmunch?

[Hirnlego]

Just what Jesus would say..

[macintoshsauce]

"Learning to tolerate those that don't share your beliefs would be a great place to start?"

If that isn't calling the kettle black...

[RuinedSaint]

BS; until you idol worshipping cultists stop trying to use your primitive ideas regarding morality onto others, then you'll find your primitive ideas being judged.

[Hirnlego]

Keep thy religion to thy self!

Don't spread it through government.

[Gabrielle]

I can' t believe this is still such a supersticious country...­.time to change to laicity.

[goldcoastsailor]

We trust God to do what exactly? Kill our enemies, take away the debt, back up the dollar, be on our side, get us a hot mistress, lower our golf score, what exactly?

[JayDDrew]

No, just to make ignorant voters forgive them after they do those things, in the name of their forgiving god. "Forgive me for doing what I'm not suppose to do, but I'll keep voting how you want, so keep me in office!"

[jweider]

I trusted him once to pay my bills for me and all of my utilities got shut off.

[PlaceboStudman]

Neurology has proven that God is man made, anyway. The new research that many of you may have seen that talks about a ":God spot" in the brain that lights up on PET scans when someone is contemplating a moral issue. I find it amusing that there IS some scientific evidence for a lot of "miracles" and things that religion claims, and yet those same people believe those miracles completely ignore science

[CigarGod]

I told my previous assistant about David Blaine a few years ago. It freaked her out. Then I found a video and it freaked her out more. She started crying hysterically and saying he was the devil. I never brought it up again.

I think it will be centuries if not longer before people will understand that there is no supernatural.

[dutchman]

In part, it's because we're hard wired to fill in the gaps of our knowledge base with explanations that may seem rational based on the evidence available at the time, but then manage to persist even after scientific explanations are discovered.

For example, when the early Greeks saw lightening, their lack of understanding of things like weather, static electricity and positive and negative charges led them to conclude that it was Zeus throwing lightening bolts from the heavens.

And it feeds into two other behavioral traits for humans: 1) Confirmation bias, which is where people tend to seek out information they already agree with, and discount what doesn't support their current worldview, and 2) attribution error, which is the tendency to ascribe to those you don't agree with only bad traits and motivations, while thinking highly of themselves and those already in their clan, as it were.

Religion exists because humans have the ability to ask the question "why" without being able to get an answer from science. And then it's "God in the gaps".

[Malkin71]

Dude,

Zeus is my god. Please show a little respect...­.

My god gets laid.

Can I demand "In Zeus We Trust" on the wall?

What about Allah? Or Buddha?

It's all BS, you realize?

[macintoshsauce]

Really now? What about visitations that people have received from God or Jesus?

[Malkin71]

They are either insane or want attention?­??????????­?

[dutchman]

It's called "delusion".

[smarternu]

Buddah visited me last year. Does that mean that he's the real God. My neighbor was visited by an Aztec God does that make him the real God. Why should anyone believe what anyone ways about visitations. They are just made up fantasies - or are you that pathetically gullible?

[MikeHermit]

Visitations? Please don't make me have to tear into your poorly written history book called the Bible.

This is not about old men writing down their superstitions 3000 years ago. This is about impeeding on the rights of others by the Christian movement.

[Quaoar]

People have also claimed to have received "visitations" from aliens.

[newworldman777]

Sounds like your previous assistant is in dire need of psychiatric therapy. Your brief, yet disturbing, description of her freaks me out.

[BeerRun]

Here are a few of my favorite Quotes from our founding fathers.

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."­John Adams 1735-1826, 2d President of the United States

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." [ in a letter to Thomas Jefferson] John Adams 1735-1826, 2d President of the United States

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise­." [April 1, 1774] James Madison, (1751-1836) Popularly known as the "Father of the Constituti­on."

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own" [Letter to H. Spafford, 1814]. Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
[Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758] Benjamin Franklin,

[JayDDrew]

This goes in the top one-thousandth of one per cent of posts. Thank you, BeerRun.
By the way, I'm a Christian. I just have equal respect for every other human being's religion or lack thereof.

[dutchman]

The world could stand to have a few more people like you.

Tolerance: why is it so hard for Americans to practice it?

[PlaceboStudman]

Organized Religion is nothing more than an excuse for one person or group to say they are better than another person or group, without expecting accountability as to why they believe that they are better than anyone else, "because my particular invisible man in the sky zombie ghost says so"

[MikeHermit]

I friend, whom I dissagree with often, recently argued that what is happpening to this country is a lack of morals. And envisioned and asked what would happen if we got back to morals.

I told him we wold simply become Iran. As your morals are not my morals. State sponsored and enforced set of morals are just what Iran has.

Laws in this country are designed to prevent majorities from impeeding on the rights of minorities. All rights are to be preserved.

In the realm of religion, those of religious backgrounds have preserved rights. Nobody is taking away your churches, your bibles, your freedom to preach, even on public streets. Nobody is censoring the airwaves, you have your own local, cable, and satelite channels.

So why do you constantly want to infringe on my rights? Why do you want to force your God on me? I served in the Army to preserve all of our rights. Not just yours. Nobody is attacking Christianity. Christianity is often attacking any religion that is not Christian, while at the same time decrying that you are under attack. You are not the only Americans. Government buildings belong to all of us, not just Christians.

You want respect but you don't give it. That is hypocrisy.

[dutchman]

Excellent post.

[JayDDrew]

I second that.
What we neeed is every other organized religion to sue to get their deities put ON walls, bills, memorials, etc. When the costs of doing that, or the lawsuits become expense enough, this is will stop.
Too bad only eight congress people had the guts to say this was wrong or this was a waste of taxpayer money.

[CigarGod]

Have a cigar.

Personally, I do mock all religions. I have a hard time not mocking religions fervent followers.
I do respect the good done in religions name, but without making a list....it seems an equal amount of what religion has done is bad. I do respect the people who sincerely believe and do good....bu­t I can't help but wonder how they can possibly believe all that @#$%.

However, as long as religious people don't try to impose their stuff on me, I can cope to a certain degree...w­ith people knocking on my door, all the public figures trying to out pray and out cry each other, giving God the credit for someones close call...and oddly, credit for taking someone else in a painful horrible disaster..­.because he needed them home.

But, I reserve the right to counter any religious thought, word or action directed at me.
If you don't want to hear it, then don't direct it at me.
I don't write books of sheepherders and burning bushes that talk or send people to knock on your door, do don't try to say my defensive action against your sales attempts are trying to shove my non-religion down your throats.

[macintoshsauce]

How nice. You mock other human beings. What a wonderful contribution to the human race you have provided. :-/

[GoodwithWood]

Good post. Go UTES.

[GrantedBKNY]

The assumption that everyone who stands up for their First Amendment protections is an atheist is wrong.

Barry Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ.

http://www.au.org/

[islandchris]

The Christians proposing this defacement are either completely ignorant of history, or else complete liars. From the US Treasury, here's an account of the origin of "In God We Trust":

http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

The invention and appearance of the motto on coins was a religious-political response to the Civil War (almost 80 years after independence), and its later appearance on paper currency was in 1957, at the height ot the Cold War. In both cases Congress was pressured into this absurdity at a time of crisis (which is the way religions often work), and in no way can it be construed that this motto was part of the original identity of the United States. Far from putting it on a Government building, it should come OFF our currency.

[JayDDrew]

Agreed. You will find when you argue with people they are ignorant, and frequently choose to be that way - they simply believe lies that have been propagated without researching it themselves.
I had a similar argument with a coworker who insisted the founding fathers based the Constitution on religion and God appeared in the wording. I could not convince him otherwise, even though all he had to do was read it.

[Disuberence]

How did Koalas get on Noah's Ark?

[ab73]

Who volunteerd to carry the tapeworm?

[dutchman]

Or stink bugs?

[MikeHermit]

I hear Koalas are tasty to predators. Man, a predator smorgasborg all contained on a little boat. But remember, all critters did not make the trip. Either God did not have Noah build a big enough boat for the dinos or Noah decided to leave them . . . 400m years in the past, er, I meant on shore.

[newworldman777]

Don't inject common sense into the fray. God simply performed one of his countless "miracles" to retrieve the koalas, as well as the bison, the tapirs, the peccaries and other North/South American creatures.

BTW...they say that the remains of the ark are sitting on Mount Ararat at about the 15,000 foot level (as has been reported by witnesses). Let's see...that­'s three extra miles of water that covered the earth. Where did all of that water go? To even get that much water in the first place, it would have had to have continually rained over 15 feet per hour for 40 straight days (15,000 [feet]/40 [days and nights]/24 [hours per day]). (slaps self for forgetting about miracles and such as that)

[SonofLiberty1]

I am so sick and tired of non believers who believe that they have the almighty right to decide everything in America.

Their mantra is one word...

DESTROY.

And they are having a great time doing just that.

[Disuberence]

I am so sick of believers who believe that they have the almighty right to decide everything in America.


Their mantra is one word...

DESTROY.

And they are having a great time doing just that.

[Hirnlego]

You make mockery out the world liberty.

[Hirnlego]

world = WORD

[GunOfSod]

I fail to see why you think Atheists are trying to force their beliefs on anyone here. This is a public building, why does it have to have anything to do with god?

I think the Atheist taxpayers are quite within their rights to protest this. If you need a god fix, go to your church.

[MikeHermit]

I am so sick of Christians using our OUR governement to peddle their cults to us. I served in the Army not for your freedoms but for all of OUR freedoms. You want religion, take it to your home, take it to your church, even take it to the public streets. But leave it out of and off of our government buildings. I to not trust in any God, so stop trying to force feed him to me.

Have you no shame? Wait, you are a Christian, I guess you don't.

[dutchman]

We do? What government buildings exist that have slogans proclaiming that there's not a god?

[WilliamP]

SCOTUS requires the government to have a secular purpose for its actions. How could the government's declaration of its trust in god possbily have a secular purpsose? How could it not offend atheists or even those with religious beliefs that don't include a single god, or any god?

[DingoDave]

Why do Christians insist on using the weasel word 'God' in these deliberations?
After all, the word 'god' is nothing more than a title and a job description.

We all know that they are really referring to the Biblical 'Yahweh' when they use the word 'God', so why aren't they brave enough to just come out and say it (or engrave it)?

Of course, we all know the answer to that question don't we. It's because it might not go down so well with every American citizen who is not a Christian.

[Disuberence]

We should replace God with money. It's basically the same thing...

"In Money We Trust"

[sviolette]

That would also make it more expensive to carve into a building. More letters in Yahweh' and that pesky apostrophy. It's also harder to spell.