Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[Ghost803]

Who the hell cares. The country is going to hell in a hand basket. The vast majority of the population is either too ignorant and uneducated, or apathetic to have a meaningful discourse on anything.

[DingoDave]

- It's important because governments and other vested interest groups find religion useful for manipulating the masses and rallying them behind any particular agends.

Religion can be, and IS used for uniting particular social groups under a single banner.
It's 'groupthink' at its most insidious, and that's dangerous for everyone who cares about freedom and justice for ALL; not just some.

[Tazru]

I agree, If we had managed to dodge the bull__it of Reaganomics, the Dumbing Down of America might not have been so successful.

If we revive our Educational Systems and promote Lifelong Learning, we may be able to undo what the Neocondrathals have done. Learning helps keep the Theocracy away.

[macintoshsauce]

I think you need to go back to school and find out what destroyed the public school system. It is the constant liberal experimentation and so-called progressive crap that you've installed in the school system that has NOT worked.

[dutchman]

A lot of people care. But you're right about the state of America's education system.

You know what you'll never meet in Holland? A high school dropout. And yet Texas (the worst)manages to see only 60% of its students getting a high school diploma.

And in certain fields - like engineering - India has more honor students, than Ameica has students.

Until the US moves away from localized property taxes paying for its schools, it's in for a world of hurt.

[JayDDrew]

Ever wonder why politicians haven't forced all U.S. citizens to at least graduate from high school? It's to keep a lower class. Same reason they talk about illegal immigration, but don't really do much about it: cheap labor.
There is absolutely no reason a high school education (or equivalent) shouldn't be a mandate in this country. This should be necessary to get a job, a driver's license, etc. But if you keep the people ignorant, you can keep pushing bad ideas down their throats, particularly if you back them up with religion.

[lianmolive]

I asked anyone to support the argument in favor of having that God slogan without using the "majority" argument and here is Solja using that exact argument!

It's not about majority... if it were, awful things like slavery would still exist because at the time it was abolished, the majority were still in favor of it.

Also, abortion... it has nothing to do with the majority. Majority isn't what counts, but law and legal standing and a thing called, The Constitution.

[liberalbug]

"What is God, imagination
A symbol of lies and frustration
Your saviour Jesus was lost
When he was nailed to the cross

The Bible is a lie
I defy the lying priest
God doesn't control my life
I choose me own destiny
Religion is for the weak
Your soul will die forever
Get up off your knees
There's no God in heaven"

Thrash metal band Sacred Reich circa 1987. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[lianmolive]

jonmonbuckeye :

Are you getting into quantum physics with your singular reality statement? Because that's a whole different topic from religion and state.

[Tazru]

He does not seem to understand Physics either.

[Tazru]

I think perhaps he watched "What the Bleep Do We Know", and thinks he understands it all now.

[Solja]

I knew that was coming when I first read about it. lol

I see both sides of the argument but I don't see Atheists suing to get that off our money. I guess if people who believe in God were to step into this, we'd outnumber non-believers 10-1, and our voices would make the difference here, but I digress. I don't see them winning unless they get a judge who is a non-believer. I hope the engraving wins out and is put on the Capitol Visitors' Center as planned. Just because non-believers don't believe in God shouldn't mean that believers should be stopped from having their own opinion.

[Disuberence]

Christians don't have a monopoly on 'god.' I promise you, if this was Allah instead of 'god' it would lose support.

[jonmonbuckeye]

Now THAT I agree with.

[Solja]

I doubt it. And no one ever said Christians had a monopoly on anything, so don't try and post comments for me. If we used "Allah" instead of the word, "God", in this country, the same argument would apply. In fact, the last time I looked, they were one and the same.

Allah : The one and only God, creator and sustainer of the universe.

Different religions call "God" by different names, but it's all the same "God". Some twist what He/She is about, but the names mean the same.

And by the way, I am far from being a "religious" person but I do believe in God, but also respect other people's beliefs. Just like some stand by what their beliefs, I stand by mine.

[lianmolive]

It's about separation of church and state... what part of that do you not get?

Would you be okay with words that said, In God We do NOT Trust? or... In Allah (insert any other faith-based being) into that slogan?

[Solja]

No, it's not. It's about Americans generally believing in a God. What God is not the point, because He is in our hearts, and that's why it's on our money and on our government buildings. And until there are no longer any Christians/Jews, etc. in Congress, or when there are a majority of Atheists on the Supreme Court, this will not change.

[Solja]

What part don't you get? There are more Christians in government, the courts, this country, than there are Atheists. THAT's what you guys are fighting, and you really need to recognize that. You can't convert people who believe in God with your rudeness, and you damn sure won't change Congress or the courts as long as they too believe in God.

[Hirnlego]

No.
It shouldn't be for or against any god. Stop wasting tax payers money on beliefs which should be private.

[marco01]

Why do you need the state to endorse your religion? Aren't you satisfied to practice it as you please?

The Founding Fathers did not believe in your god almost to a man. You know this yet you persist in forcing your belief on others in this country by having it emblazoned on our public buildings.

I personally am spiritual, I just don't believe in any dogma or a big man in the sky. I don't want the government endorsing any of my beliefs. It is disrespectful to others and actually limits freedom in this country.

[badtimes]

I don't think anyone wants you to stop having an opinion.
I just don't want my tax dollars used to endorse it.

[Tazru]

I dream that some day we will elect a President who is courageous enough to stand up to The Family and say that he/she does not believe in any imaginary friends.

I have had that dream for over 40 years now, but things have only gotten worse during the age of the Neocondrathals.

When will the Dark ages end?

[marco01]

The Founders would have cringed at this state endorsement of religion. Just like they would have when this motto first appeared on our currency.

Why do believers need to have the state endorse their religion? Aren't they satisfied with having the freedom to practice it as they please? Or are they so insecure about their beliefs that they must have everyone acknowledge them?

You don't see Atheists demanding that we engrave "There is no god" on government buildings, do you?

[Hirnlego]

"You don't see Atheists demanding that we engrave "There is no god" on government buildings, do you?"

this needs to pointed out more often. religion should be private. Don't take it into government buildings or schools.

[lianmolive]

jonmonbuckeye:

Hey, look, there's a Santa Claus flying outside your window right now. It's true.

If you deny this claim, then you are making a claim and therefore, (by your logic), you will have to provide proof that Santa isn't riding his sleigh near the stars. Burden of proof then, again by your logic, is on you.

So, can you provide proof that Santa doesn't exist? And if not, should we all assume then, because you cannot definitively prove otherwise, that he does, by default, exist?

[Disuberence]

I'm fairly sure he's uh, not all there... look a tthis statement.


"An there lays the point that I am making- your reality is not necessarily my reality"

[DingoDave]

- I hate to have to break it to jonmon, but all the best evidence suggests that we all share the same reality. Sad day for him if he seriously disagrees.

Luckily there are places where people who suffer from such an affliction can get help.

[lianmolive]

Believers: Separation of church and state. Yes there are monuments, blah blah blah. But from this point forward, please give one solid reason why we should have the words on a new federal building that states, "In God We Trust?"

Remember, separation of church and state.

Please don't use the majority argument because that won't fly. Can anyone justify this?

[MayoGalway]

A transgendered Nation of Islam convert would have a better chance of being elected POTUS than a
noisey, nosey atheist. That's how loathesomely regarded atheists are by the General Public.

Bands of torch waving, pitchfork carrying good ol'boys and girls would be combing the campuses for secret humanist/freethinker meetings, and burning effigies of Penn Jillette, the Amazing Randi, and Chris Hitchens.

I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God. --George H W Bush

[lianmolive]

So true and so sad.

[Disuberence]

Hey now, I don't see transgendered as being a problem!

The islam thing though, that would certainly disqualify them.

[MayoGalway]

nor is atheism a problem, but the attitudes of the General Public, therein lies the rub

[paganmist]

I am not an atheist, but the fact is that dogma of all kinds (even the dogma of non-religion) can lead to obnoxiousness. There are obnoxious people of all stripes, and they all firmly believe that they are right, and that only they realize the truth.

Be careful that the "loathesome" qualities you perceive in some atheists isn't also present in you, wearing the guise of religious certitude.

[MayoGalway]

I'm from the Denis Diderot school of thought: to paraphrase, Man will not be free until the last tyrant is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

[NoFactsJustTruth]

The FACT some individuals cannot keep their effin fairy tales to themselves, but insist they're somehow compelled to force them on others, has NOTHING to do with 'free speech' - and EVERYTHING to do with 'proselytizing' ...JUST EXACTLY LIKE THE TALIBAN!

[lianmolive]

Funny how "believers" will come in post something stoopid and/or condescending and just vanish!

[jonmonbuckeye]

I believe, and I haven't had one atheist submit to me proof against an omnipotent being existing. I see quite a bit of proof (remember all realities are singular to the observer) from what I have observed, and quite a bit in science as well. Yet, I haven't seen one shred of evidence to point to the contrary because they can't provide any rational without devolving into a debate on religion. Pony up the evidence boys, and then we can discuss.

[Disuberence]

The burden falls on you to provide proof there is an omnipotent being.

[lianmolive]

I have also NEVER had one believer submit any proof that a god exists. Yet here they come in and say something like "You're all going to go to Hell" without backing any of it up, without addressing our questions.

I would also say what you just said.,.. Pony up the evidence and then we can discuss. But stop claiming we're going to hell without providing any evidence.

Besides, I would still like to know why Congress believes we can have words that endorses religion on a federal building. Not a single believer has provided a sound argument as to why.

[paganmist]

I don't mean to be snarky (honestly) but I could claim anything - that I am Angelina Jolie posting from an anonymous account, for example - and you wouldn't be able to disprove my claim.

The person making the original claim has the burden of proof. You say there is a God. Someone else says, "No, there isn't." They don't have to prove there isn't, because they didn't make the original claim. Either you have to prove your case, or the default is that you are not telling the truth.

What proof do you have? It may surprise you, but there are some people who would change their minds if provided with proof. I've never been given proof, personally. I've always simply been told to believe, sight unseen.

[marco01]

Great, believe all you want. That's not the point. The point is the government should not endorse any religion or belief in any way. It must remain neutral.

[Hirnlego]

The burden of proof is on your side.
You've had thousands of years of belief and you still haven't gotten anywhere..

[MayoGalway]

[Go to] heaven for climate, hell for society--Mark Twain

[JOONYPIE]

just goes to show, atheists are as petty as everyone else

[dutchman]

But surely no worse.

[DingoDave]

- How so?

We don't condemn anyone to an eternity of suffering for dis-agreeing with us.

[NCvote4O]

True. True.

[paganmist]

In a time of economic crisis, it is utterly ridiculous to spend $100,000 of taxpayer money to engrave ANYTHING on the wall of a federal building, much less "In God We Trust."

Seriously. Anyone who trusts in God already KNOWS they trust him. Anyone who DOESN'T trust in God isn't going to be swayed because a wall engraving tells them to.

If preventing a pointless waste of money that could be spent saving people's homes from foreclosure is "petty", then this country needs a whole lot of pettiness.

[Disuberence]

Why thank you!

[ab73]

Petty and correct. Infuriating isn't it.

[bigbenny]

I lost my belief in a supernatural being a lot of years ago when I came to realize it is unnecessary plus there is no real proof that someone (or something) in some mythical realm created us and all the rest. We are the result of many millions of years of evolution and, somehow, along the way various men created a myriad of gods in their own image.

When the christian god evolved out of the sea of other gods they contrived a long conflicted series of books to legitimize it. Ever since people have used those books to justify incredible levels of pain on humankind.

[Disciple1]

I don't mean to make fun of non-believers, because I REALLY love all of you and I fear that you may be lost beyond redemption--if it were left to mankind. However, I have to admit that everytime you speak, protest or deny your Creator based on evolutionist dribble, I cringe at your lack of intelligent support for your beliefs. Even when we give you point-by-point answers to your attacks on Christianity, you choose to remain ignorant--which is your right. Many of you claim to be 'atheists', but a scholarly examination of the term would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is no such animal. For example, one would have to have absolute knowledge in order to say that there is no God. You can't even answer a simple query regarding what happens to an atheist at the moment of his/her death. It's time to wake up--it's not the Christian that is delusional. We have faith and facts for every facet of our calling. What do YOU have?

[paganmist]

What facts do you have to "prove" the God exists? I just got in on this conversation, by the way. I never knew there were "facts" to prove that God exists. Last time I checked, faith was believing in something *without* proof.

If you have definitive proof that god exists, what is the purpose of Faith?

[ab73]

And never the twain shall meet.

Anyhows, why do you bother proselytising your faith. You only have about 80 years here. Why worry when you have an eternity of fluffy clouds, sweet nectar and lyre music awaiting you.

[Disuberence]

Evolutionist dribble. Laugh out loud.

[lianmolive]

You have faith, not facts.

I also really love all you ignorant Christians also, and I fear that you are lost beyond all hope, forever plagued by guilt and sin and denying basic rights of others because of your faith.

No one really knows what happens at death, not Christians, not atheists. Not all of us are atheists, btw.

Christians are delusional... I hope one day you'll wake up and SEE you have wasted life. You are free to remain ignorant... as always, it's your choice. Meanwhile, most atheists I know live life in the here and now and take responsibility for their actions... not blaming the another supreme being called Lucifer.

Anyhow, the point is in this discussion is... separation between church and state. We should not have government endorsing religion; hence no words on federal buildings that say, In god we trust.

[lianmolive]

By your logic, Santa Claus could very well exist because No one can really prove otherwise, right? So... do you believe in Santa?

BTW, it's not up to us to prove God doesn't exist, it's up to you who believe in a god(s) to prove to us. You make the claim... you have the burden of proof.

[dutchman]

Question for all you Christians:

Could Jesus make a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it? *

* with eternal gratitude to The Simpsons for this little gem.

[PlaceboStudman]

It appears the believers have been scared off and left us, the heathens and blasphemers to our own devices tonight :-D

[dutchman]

Woo Hoo!!!!

You were on a roll tonight. You have a new fan.

[ab73]

Ahh, the Simpson's. If only McCarthy were alive to enjoy it.

My personal fave is Homer on a church:
"I don't know much about Jeebers, but we sure built a lovely cage to keep him in."

[dutchman]

Yet another fan-worthy post! I feel I'm among kindred spirits here.

[DingoDave]

- Don't ask such questions you blasphemer : (
It makes my head hurt.

[Oldtt]

If he did he'd never admit it.