Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[PlaceboStudman]

The other thing I've never received an answer to from a believer is, if The Bible as compiled is the true Word of God, why are there so many texts and manuscripts, such as the Gnostic Gospels which questioned the very existance of Jesus a mere 50-100 years after his so-called life, consciously and intentionally left out of the Bible?

[Disuberence]

Let's not forget Lilith, Adam's first wife. She left Adam to go bang serpents.

Personally, I don't blame her.

[ab73]

Neither, serpent's only have on average 7 inches to compete with.

[PlaceboStudman]

That does put a new twist on using serpents as a metaphor for male genitalia, eh?

[DingoDave]

Wasn't Lilith supposed to be some kind of overbearing Fem-Dom?
Wow, those guys were kinkier than I thought.

[legaleagle 45]

I thought Lilith was Frasier's first wife....

PS, that was a joke.

[Tazru]

Most of them do not even know anything about the Council of Nicea(Narnia), or that the documents were not a collection until then.

[PlaceboStudman]

That's the insiduous problem with painting belief as "truth", theres no need whatsoever to question their validity or trace their history

[Oldtt]

It was the publisher's decision, probably to keep the cost down.

[Disciple1]

I can see that you, and others like you, pride yourselves on the false notion that because a Christian does not answer you, that we must somehow not be fully grounded enouth in our Faith. Sorry to disappoint you. The reason that many believers have given up on you folks is our to provide answers to your sarcastic questioning. Scripture clearly states that if you ask questions merely to be argumentative rather than out of a sincere search for the Truth and understanding, we have no obligation to reply to you. We are currently quite content to read and listen to the constant blasphemies and denouncements of Jesus Christ and His Church. A few of us such as myself are holding on to lingering hope that wisdom will overtake you before it is too late--but time is running out and it looks like your hearts may be hardened beyond our reach. It is, after all, not believers that will judge you. We're only messengers.

[Disuberence]

Why don't you answer me above? I really wanna talk to you about this... please?

[DingoDave]

- According to the Bible, it is your god himself who is responsible for 'hardening' people's hearts.
On the other hand, my cardiologist reckons it's probably all the chitlins and fried bacon I've been eating. You decide.

[Hirnlego]

Like good little sheep you only believe what you're told to believe.
But just like us, you're atheists to 99.9999% of all Gods and we simply go one further.
Asking for evidence, working hard on these questions. Faith is clearly not enough.

[PlaceboStudman]

As to those who are talking about being "saved", I'll heed the words of the wise Mark Twain

"I'll take heaven for the climate, and hell for the company"

Who on earth would want to live in a world of peace and quiet with absolutely nothing to do?? There is no sex, because sex is a sin, and there is no sin in this so called heaven

So, uh, yeah, I'll pass

[Oldtt]

I'd take Heaven, because the sattelite TV is teriffic.

[farseer]

SCOTUS has upheld the motto, so why does this keep coming up over and over and over? Isn't it "settled law"?

[PlaceboStudman]

It may be settled law, but it is far from settled in society, and moves like this bring the discussion and debate to the forefront so that society can evolve to the point where it no longer requires adherence to ancient mythology

[farseer]

That would invalidate the basis on which the whole country was founded - which is the principle that all men are "created" equal, being endowed by their "Creator" -- "Nature's God" -- with certain inalienable rights ... Those quotes are from the Declaration of Independence.

The Constitution provides that the president take an "Oath or Affirmation" on taking office, ""I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully ..." so that "swear" is the assumed word, while "affirm" is an alternative option for the occasional (eccentric or oddball) atheist.

Atheists may believe THEIR myth that there is no God if you want ... He gave them that freedom to follow the fool's path. After the present life ends, the error will be manifest, but then it will be too late

[Tazru]

Perhaps S(R)OTUS did, but it was put in during the McCarthy era, I think it is long overdue to give the rest of us our rights back.

[Disuberence]

Should have done SCROTUS, funnier.

[legaleagle 45]

The phrase "InGod We Trust" first appeared on coins of the USA during the Civil War.

[Disuberence]

Settled law is challenged all the time.

No mention of God in the constitution. None.

[RuinedSaint]

Exactly; if SCOTUS had the final say on anything, then the anti-choice brigade wouldn't be able to use Roe v Wade as a battle cry to rally their base.

[legaleagle 45]

It does contain the word "Lord".

;-)

[RuinedSaint]

They upheld it as a ceremonial and ritualistic phrase in Aronow v. United States; if more Christians looked that case up and understood how the phrase is recognized by the US Government, they'd reject it as a heresy.

As it is, I'll stick with E Pluribus Unum; Our founding fathers clearly prefered that one when they used it, and for good reason.

[Oldtt]

Else it would have been E Pluribus Unus Deus.

[ab73]

Because America is a Common Law nation which derives its legal framework from England.
The freedoms and rights conferred by the US constitution are mostly codified forms of various common law acts and conventions. Habeas Corpus, The Bill of Rights etc were all enacted and enforced by pesky activist judges and combative parliaments.

This means the constitution is malleable, whch is a good thing because it should evolve with society (e.g. wrt civil rights). Unfortunately it gives hope to regressive forces that they use the maleability to dial us back to the 17th century.

[legaleagle 45]

It is indeed a two edged sword to believe in a "malleable constitution". So long as the courts adopt your vision of what should be done, everything is hunky dorey. But the problem arises when the courts use the doctorine of a "malleable constitution" to impose thigs which you do not approve. For myself, I would feel much better with a less "malleable constitution", one which is based upon and applied in a manner which fulfills the intent of the drafters of the document. The downside is that it is much more difficult to pass a constitutional amendment to address the changing mores of society than it is to allow a court to find that amendment already expressed in the constitution by some magical recitation of legalese. The down side is that the magical recitation of legalese may do away with freedom of speech, freedom of press and other rights we hold dear and we would have no cause to complain, because we gave the power of the eraser and the power of the magic marker to our judges.

[dutchman]

For those that are religious, the religion you adopt is mostly determined by where you were born.

[jamie461]

It's moments like this when I'd like to dump the fundamentalists and the atheists on an island somewhere and let them fight it out and leave the rest of us in peace. I am so tired of both sides constantly trying to poke each other's eyes out in court.

[lianmolive]

which island and who would pay? hope is somewhere tropical.

[DingoDave]

- Don't forget to take a hat and sunscreen if you're going somewhere tropical.

As Mark Twain once famously quipped: " You Go to Heaven for the climate, and Hell for the company".

I'd choose company over climate nearly any day.

[Tazru]

Wow.

You really do not understand much about the issues do you?

[DingoDave]

- Which issues are you referring to?

[jamie461]

I understand the issues perfectly well. I'm just sick of both extreme ends of the belief spectrum and their endless bickering.

[PlaceboStudman]

War and violence and poverty and all the ills of the world would exist, even in an Atheist controlled world. Those aspects of human nature have more to do with evolution of the species and survival of the fittest than they do any ideology. But, at least in an Atheist world, there would be no invisible man in the sky zombie ghost to scapegoat for the ills of the world

[ab73]

Or to use as spurious justification for inflicting those ills.

[Hirnlego]

religion is used as a justification for many for many of the ill's of the world.
By being born billions of people are automatically born into different faiths..an­d as we know they cannot all be right. So they fight about things like this..

[lianmolive]

personally I'm sick of the abortion debate, but I want it to remain legal so I will keep fighting. I'm sure there are people out there who don't want to be caught up in that debate and be left in peace. The best you can do is just not read about these articles or post anything relating to this topic. The atheists, I hope, will continue to fight for government not endorsing religion and forcing taxpayers to fund silly words on a plaque.

[Solja]

It's not silly to MOST Americans, and if you actually read the article, you'd know the engraving was ordered to be put on the building, not a plaque.

And there is "In God We Trust" on all of our money and I don't see Atheists fighting for it to be removed. It's always been there and the MAJORITY of Americans don't have a problem with that.

I actually see both sides of the argument because I have friends who are non-believers, but what gets me is that Atheists, etc. almost always have to offend believers when trying to get their point across, as if that's going to make people not believe in God or something. People generally tune out ignorance, and when people start attacking other folks' beliefs, this is what happens.

[Oldtt]

Some things are worth fighting over.

[MisterHands]

What would a Republican know about fighting?

[PlaceboStudman]

"In The Invisible Man In The Sky Zombie Ghost, who is responsible for the Crusades, The Inquisition and The Holocaust (just to name a few religious wars), who possesses no archeological or anthropological proof of his existance We Trust"

Need I say more?

[jweider]

It's kind of hard to expect peace when all of these people are praying to Yahweh the War God.

[bigbenny]

In the beginning man created god in his own image and he's been shoving it down our throats ever since.

[Oldtt]

Early theologians must have been very, very large.

[bigbenny]

Nope, just very powerful.

[ohiomark]

There is NO official "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no law establishing a state religion.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

Our country was founded on Judaeu-Christian values and our rights of life liberty and the pusuit of happiness were "endowed by our creator".

The beauty of being an American is that you don't have to believe any of that and we will still let you live here in peace.

It's freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion.

[Disuberence]

So you would vote for a theocracy then?

[ohiomark]

No, I'm spiritual, not religious.

[Oldtt]

Did you really mean to say: "The beauty of being an American is that you don't have to believe any of that and WE WILL STILL LET YOU LIVE HERE IN PEACE."

How very Christian of you. Personally, I can't thank you enough for your generosity.

[ohiomark]

As opposed to the folks in Al Qaeda who will kill you if you don't subscribe to their particular brand of Islam.

[Tazru]

Let me know when the christians are going to start letting us live in peace, for that matter there were people living here before there were any christians­...anywher­e.

[ohiomark]

If you are no being allowed to "live in peace", then call the police and turn those people in who are obstructing your peace.

Next.

[ab73]

Did that religious enlightenment include the treatment of Native Americans, Latin Americans or those kidnapped from West Africa?

How benevolent of you who own America to let a few of them live and the others picks your cotton.

[Tazru]

Indeed.

They seem to think they brought us all "civilization". Most people HAD Civilization before they were invaded and converted to christianity.

[minimalist syntax]

I am pretty sure it is Big Capital and multinational corporations, and not Christians, who own America and most of the world.

[RuinedSaint]

"Our country was founded on Judaeu-Christian values and our rights of life liberty and the pusuit of happiness were "endowed by our creator"."

In the long history of Christian Theocracies, the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have always been lacking.

Indeed, in this nation alone, theocrats have done everything in their power to limit liberty and happiness from anyone that isn't just like them; when you include things like lynching and gay bashing, life doesn't seem very high on their list of priorities, either, unless it's to force a woman to serve as a baby factory.

[dutchman]

The creator must be pretty ticked off at GWB for taking away so many American liberties.

[MIKEinNYC]

The god-cult is the proponent of events which go against the laws of nature. The burden of proof is on them.

What's your proof?

[ab73]

They read about it in a Readers Digest condensed book.

[LivingInChina]

The 'In God we Trust' thing was a knee-jerk response to the 'godless commies' in the 50's, when there was less enlightenment in the US of A.

Our country was not founded by Christians, it is not a 'Christian country,' and although we have a large Christian population, Christians are not the majority. (Do the research before you respond.)

Then there is that separation of church and state thing...

[Tazru]

"in the 50's, when there was less enlightenment in the US of A."

We are not doing so well in that area today either.

[Oldtt]

"In God We Trust" was pushed by the Knights of Columbus in the 50s in the immediate aftermath of the McCarthy witchhunt. Same with the addition of "under God" to the secular Pledge of Allegiance originally written for a boy's magazine by socialist minister Francis Bellamy. When the Commie hunters came at him, Ike folded like a cheap suit.

[Disuberence]

POST OF THE DAY!

=============

ConservativeNick I'm a Fan of ConservativeNick I'm a fan of this user permalink
photo

True hate comes from this side of the left....an­d that hate is disguised as some form of wisdom, or intelligence or some sort of self-supremacy. I really hope most of you will wake up and be doomed.
===================

Only the left is capable of hate.

P.S. You are going to he||.

[Tazru]

Just Priceless isn't it?

[ohiomark]

Thanks for proving his point.

[Disuberence]

He's doomed me to he|| three times in the span of fifteen minutes, and I'm the hater? Right, lol.

[Tazru]

Read a book.

[MIKEinNYC]

They have a point.

The existance of god is not a fact. It is a concept based upon religion.

The government has no business endorsing or debunking religious concepts.

I wouldn't run around removing the slogan but, going forward, i would not include it on money, in courtrooms and on other public, government­-supported places and things where it is presently found.

As far as public officials go, if they want to keep invoking god who cares, let them. I just wouldn't make it policy.

[lianmolive]

Yes, and going forward... this is a new federal building. Why incorporate religion on its walls? Engraving "In god we trust" endorses religion; not having it on does not debunk any religion, just separates it.

[JohnFromCensornati]

Why did god make the serpent craftier than the other animals that crawl upon the earth?
It seems to me that there are only two good possibilities.
1. He fvcked up.
or
2. He is a s@distic M-F.
Either way, in god I do not trust.

[ab73]

As vivid proof that women are wanton temptresses

[Disuberence]

God hates gays.
God created gays.

[ab73]

He also created Nick to be his mouthpiece on earth.

[AngryAmishJunior]

Including ConservativeNick's g ay son. Guys like C.N. always have at least one g ay child, sometimes multiple g ay children. I love your g ay son, Nick!!!!!

[Oldtt]

Even a myth has to have a plot.

[jan4insight]

What, more taxpayers dollars being spent on an unnecessary boondoogle?

C'mon, reichwing fiscal cons - show us your famous outrage!

[DingoDave]

- "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful". - Seneca the Younger: Roman Stoic philosopher.

Now get off my lawn.

[Billy Hell]

Truer words have seldom been spoken!

[ab73]

If you keep the logic up you might upset someone.

A dingo stole my milkshake.

[DingoDave]

- You're just lucky it wasn't your baby.

I'm sorry, that was in bad taste. My bad.