Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[NYC-CatLover]

As an Atheist, I oppose this simply because it is a waste of $100,000. With the gargantuan deficit we have now, the last thing taxyaper money (or rather, borrowed money) should be spent on is engraving empty gestures onto government buildings. If a few of our lawmakers would like to purchase their own chalk and write vaucus religious phrases all over the sidewalk, I have no problem with that at all.

[mrfreeze]

Please engrave the following passages from the bible in all Governmental buildings. I think these are much more interesting (and Republicans already have them engraved in their souls):

Exodus 21:23-25

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life
for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for
foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for
bruise.

or better yet:

Isaiah 13:15-16

Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are
caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to
pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and
their wives ravished.

There's nothing better than the rantings of people who believe in an angry desert god.

[RSU]

You loose the lesson contained in the message by taking such things out of context.

[Disuberence]

What's the message behind Deuteronomy 22:28-29?

[J35U5-G33K]

It's the same thing Fox News does. . . How Ironic.

[Tazru]

Christians do that with that book all the time. What is worse, they know nothing of the origins of the writings. The Council of Narnia or something, and a Roman Emperor.

heh

[imfedup]

I think you mean lose the lesson, but in what context would this be acceptable?

[lianmolive]

Which is a basic problem in all religious texts... interpretation. There is no one true answer.

[helonias]

Is. 10:1-3. "Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights... Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?"

[helonias]

James 5:1-6. Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. ...Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

[LeftRight]

Speaking as an agnostic.... This is a SERIOUS waste of the court's time!!

[Disuberence]

"will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust ""

Waste of taxpayer money. If the Christians want monuments to their invisible friend they should pay for them.

[J35U5-G33K]

Love is invisible. . .should we stop believing in that as well?

[lianmolive]

Well it's not about a waste of tax payer money, which it is... but that's not the underlying issue. That 100k could easily be donated by churches. And if that money was somehow raised without using our taxes, I would still have a problem with this because we're using something governmental and endorsing a religion.

[LeftRight]

That's not a Christian statement. It's a combination of two things:

1)It's a non-specific statement that certain people believe in something larger than themselves.

2)It's ON OUR MONEY SUPPLY, therefore, by this point in time it's HARMLESS!

[RSU]

I love Saturday and Sunday.

Both days are considered a Sabbath.

I hope you don't plan to take them away too.

[Disuberence]

Both days are considered a Sabbath to some religions. They are also not days when you are not allowed to work.

Personally, the only Sabbath I like is Black.

[RSU]

What makes you think I don't like Black Sabbath?

As for taking days off, it depends on where you work. Worship is a protected practice in most places . . . even at work.

[Michele Himmel]

No not days you are not allowed to work ( orthodox Jews yes) In Christianity it is putting God`s interests first for one day and resting, but you can work if you need to.

[Tazru]

Pick a day or 2 and take them off. Why do we need to call it a "Sabbath"...I thought that was an old heavy metal group.

I actually prefer to work weekends because the parks and such are less crowded on the weekdays. I don't like big crowds.

[RSU]

You should bone up on your history then.

Both Saturday and Sunday began as religious days of observance and are still revered as such around the world. In America, they are most often observed as non working days for the practice of rest and worship.

Since they have such deep religious connotations, I'm sure Atheists have some problem with them but I don't. For me, I think I'd like to keep things the way they are.

[Hirnlego]

People actually work on those days. Should we put them to death? At least in the OT that's the punishable with death..

[DingoDave]

Wrong. Saturday is the Sabbath.
Sunday was a pagan holiday celebrating 'Sol Invictus', the Unconquered Sun.

[Hirnlego]

"thou shalt not steal" heh heh

[RSU]

I think you need to learn what Sabbath means.

[HFR]

Sunday you worship the Sun. Saturday you worship Saturn. All these religions has been plagiarized from ancient astrological myths is that not obvious? 12 months in the year 12 zodiac signs etc, get it!

[Oldtt]

These days, Sunday is a pagan holiday celebrating beer, barbeque, and the NFL.

[RationalityPlease]

You can call them whatever you like. It's called religious freedom. The rest of us get to call them whatever we like, too.

[Whitley2009]

Written for this HP thread - A Prayer from the Cherokee

Oh, Great Spirit, in the beginning, they came to us from the sea. They told us we were savages, and they gave us bibles and little wood crosses in exchange for our lands. They killed, raped, murdered and enslaved over 30 million of us in the Caribbean. They built breeding camps where they mixed us with other tribes from across the sea. They killed millions of our peoples across the lands of America and Canada. They marched us across the Mississippi into Oklahoma killing tens of thousands of us. Always, they told us we were savages. They kept telling us of their god, then their godly trinity, and then their 10 rules which none of them obeyed.

Oh, Great Spirit, these men espouse artificial religions. They do not accept your natural presence, only that of artificial lies and delusions. We need no more of their books, crosses, or public declarations of their faiths.

Oh, Great Spirit, temper us with strength to withstand the bitterness and hatred inside these artificial faiths. Kindle in our hearts the flames of a true and living reality of our universe, but let it not be with the men who kill in the name of their gods.

[Tazru]

Great post.

Let us not forget the chosen and the nobles of Europe practised on the peasants nearby before they went looking for more. Archaeology is proving that we were not so different before we were converted.

Perhaps some day we can all have freedom.

[ManiDeli]

It's a Native American Nation

[themodernleader]

The more we turn all our worldly problems to the Almight:, the more we place faith in God, the less we place faith and trust in ourselves and each other.

[wehrke]

I don't think that is true for the people I know.

[OlongapoEd]

Let us not forget that the people who are most anxious to have references to their god on government buildings are people who worship a god who not only has his agents commit gen.o.cide, but who himself commits gen.o.cide.

[JulieSA]

Mao and Stalin were the worst genociders in history. Hitler and Pol Pot were almost as bad. They were all atheists.

[ManiDeli]

Hitler was a Catholic

[Disuberence]

""History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813"

""On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, bur ning and tor turing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." --- Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816 "

ENOUGH SAID.

[JulieSA]

""Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion . . . ."

"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them."

"Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever "

""We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men."

---Thomas Jefferson.

He was against the misuse of religion, and against any one church being part of the government. He was not against religious faith.

He, Franklin, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Washington, all believed that a belief in one God, the Creator, was important to the foundation of society. But they didn't like it when people got all wound up on the details of dogma between the denominations.

[Disuberence]

"He, Franklin, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Washington, all believed that a belief in one God, the Creator, was important to the foundation of society. But they didn't like it when people got all wound up on the details of dogma between the denominations."

Of course they did. Religion was the fastest way to ensnare the masses back then. They had to sell a war that American's didn't want to fight. They had to sell the idea of forming a singular country.

Religion is detrimental to society because it requires a near constant state of cognitive dissonance and a crusade on anything scientific. America doesn't need anymore excuses to be anti-intellectual.

[Hirnlego]

Please don't make me post quotes..

[Michele Himmel]

Boy people are gonna hate heaven then...total theocracy there. lol

[Tazru]

watapantload

Keep your beliefs to yourself.

[macintoshsauce]

LOL

[Hirnlego]

Eternal praise for the dear leader.. that's no heaven.

[LeeCalif]

What a bunch of lambs there are in the House. Dan Lundgren is nothing but trouble and regression.

Thank goodness for atheists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dutchman]

Well all, it's been fun. I'm off to worship at the Church of the Late Night Hedonist.

Peace,

Dutchman

[Disuberence]

Adios!

[Hirnlego]

yeah bye.. time to do something else here too..

[Whitley2009]

Query:

1. Which God?

2. Why do I want the Egyptian Pharaoh "negative covenants" from the Egyptian Book of the Dead on the walls of my American government building?

[rpahk]

Any religious reference is inappropriate in a secular government building.

[Ohioan730]

ESPECIALLY in America.

[dutchman]

Well, I don't want any in The Netherlands, either.

[Oldtt]

You're talking about a country where the majority of voters believe that the earth is 10,000 years old and every existing form of life - down to the lowliest virus - rode to safety aboard a large wooden boat.

[LittleOldLadyWho]

If it had been there for many years, leave it. Since it's not, don't add it.

[zerotimes10]

Good. I am an Agnostic who was raised as a Christian. I still adhere to most of what Jesus had to say but I have my doubts about whether God exists or not. I do not credit IT nor do I criticize IT. Therefore, I don't want the Country I live in to push God on the money or in the Pledge or any other public place. Worship as you will. I will DEFEND that right but please keep it in private as Jesus instructed you to do.

[DuaneBidoux]

I am a progressive who is an agnostic that leans toward atheism (at least when it comes to believing in a old white man with a beard in a robe).

But I feel that this is exactly the kind of thing that does more harm than good. What people actually believe is not going to change one bit based on this phrase in this building. This is not like a school with impressionable kids where I would definitely support the fight.

In the mean time for most independents it comes across as petty and spiteful.

[GrantedBKNY]

It is yet another erosion of the First Amendment. That is why it is important to fight it.

[oakley9]

Just curious. Why do some people here assume the following?
If you believe in God, Spirit, life force whatever, it means you are a born again right wing Christian.
If you are a Christian or anything else, that you dislike those who practice Judaism.
I am not necessarily Christian or Jewish, but embrace and like to learn from many faiths.

[Tazru]

Why do YOU assume so much?

[oakley9]

My question/comment is based on reactions to my former comments.

[andyg]

They just don't like Christian's.

[Disuberence]

Born again Christians are perhaps the most dangerous and brainwashed group. Especially the Pentecostals and Mormons. Each has an even more ridiculous set of beliefs on top of the already ridiculous beliefs found in the Bible. They're also the ones you see at all of those anti-abortion rallies. Waving signs, calling people baby k*llers.

Honorable mention the Phelps clan.