Atheists Sue To Keep 'In God We Trust' Off Capitol Visitor Center

McClatchy:

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Read the whole story: McClatchy

Comments

[Bitsko]

John McCain thinks he's god. Dan Lungren knows he is.

[TotalRecall9]

I guess these atheists don't have money either.

[RuinedSaint]

We just feel $100,000 could be better spent... Like on 2 good Science teachers for a school that can use them.

[dutchman]

Is there a god? Who knows?

Does the christian god exist? We can actually be more than 99.9% certain that it doesn't. The same goes for any other religion that's scarred the earth since humankind invented religion to help them try (emphasis on "try") and explain the world around them.

EVERY religion (there have been thousands) that's ever existed throughout history views it's belief system as the one true religion. And guess what, they can't all be right!! In fact, only one can be right. And every other one is wrong, it's no leap to assume that EVERY religion is wrong.

Critical reasoning. It's our only hope if we want to see this planet survive us.

[acslaterson]

That's why I am a Deist! ;-)

[dutchman]

I suppose the same it true for me.

There are two maxims I find helpful here:

1) Whoever claims to know the "truth" about a deity is lying.
2) We know almost nothing about the universe.

[imfedup]

Why are you a deist if you believe in reasoning?

[Hirnlego]

Or they are all wrong. To me clearly human inventions­..

[Hirnlego]

Its hard to imagine a supreme being being so incompetent with spreading a one true faith..

[Bitsko]

Still waiting for whatever it is to show up. Until then, you can find me at the Atheist Hotel.

[Realitylost]

Exactly, just show me one burning bush, or flying dude with a flaming sword and halo, and then I'm in.

[jweider]

My test is for the almighty dog to turn PatRobertson into a pillar of salt on live television. When then happens, then I'll believe.

[Disciple1]

Yes, God exists. The proof is in abundance--even outside the unerring truth of the Bible. You scientists out there even know that archaeological proof has been uncovered in the past 100-200 years. Surely you are also aware that many non-Christian religions state that they, too, believe in Jesus. I, for one, truly love atheists (although I personally don't believe that a TRUE atheist actually exists) because your arguments are ALWAYS based on emotion rather than solid fact. You demand that CHRISTIANS be open-minded, but apparently it doesn't apply to your own discourse.

[dutchman]

You're delusional. There's no proof at all.

And an atheist is just an agnostic who's had time to think about things. Trust me, I know several.

[KipRip]

Let me guess...Ar­ea 51 That's where they hid the proof?

[lianmolive]

Whether or not your god exists is not relevant to the topic of adding "In god we trust." Our governmental system is suppose to be separation between church and state. That's the real issue.

[sviolette]

Hog Fn Wash.

[Tazru]

"The proof is in abundance--even outside the unerring truth of the Bible."

If that is the only source you will accept, then why bother with us?

Do you know anything about the history of that unerring book? Council of Narnia....­no that was Nicea...I keep getting the fantasy worlds mixed up.

[J35U5-G33K]

It's amazing how bent atheists get over some words on a wall. I don't think anyone is forcing you to agree with the proposed text. You may want to give religion a try, if your looking for some "utopian" society. I mean seriously. . .Do you believe everything you read? Talk about irony ;-)

[RuinedSaint]

"I don't think anyone is forcing you to agree with the proposed text."

But they do want us to pay for it.

[dutchman]

Exactly. We're already subsidizing their temples of hate, err...chur­ches.

[J35U5-G33K]

I'm sure they could find some guy with a chisel to do it for free. We paid for wall street, so I don't think this is going to make page1.

[Nerdacus]

If it's just some words on a wall, then you won't mind them not going up.

Or, if we're just talking about some words on a wall, how about some nice John Lennon lyrics?

[zerotimes10]

J35U5-G33K: How ironic. You are the one that BELIEVES in Utopia. You are the one that BELIEVES in what some other human being has told you to believe. I am a Liberal and an Agnostic. I BELIEVE that I just took a breath and I BELIEVE that I am still Alive.

I take it as it comes. You are the one that BELIEVES in Fairy Tales told by fools signifying nothing but Sound and Fury and oh by the way doing a lot of harm to those whom YOU SAY are god less. Your Fairy Tales have permitted untold misery on the human race because the Fairy Tale god told you it was A-OK! You need to have your head examined.

[Fentwin]

Fine, then add these words to the wall as well,

"There are no gods".

[Tazru]

Some translations of the "first commandment" have a real tough time NOT saying exactly that. That is why it usually sounds like they left the asterisk off.

[sviolette]

If I don't agree with it then I shouldn't have to pay for it.

[Fentwin]

The point is whether one agrees or not. The point is that our gov't should not spend money respecting any religion or religious sentiment.

[acslaterson]

Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves over how much our current government fights about religion. They were so much more intelligent then many of our current officials and that really depresses me when I hear about officials saying they believe the world is only 4,000 years old. What happened to prizing intellectualism?

[StayinCivil]

Not only that but there are many Americans who need a refresher course on our history and on civics. For instance, "One nation under God" was added to our pledge in the 1950's by a member of Congress who was also a member of the secret religious group The Family...T­he same group that owns the C Street House. Also, "In God We Trust" was added to our money, again by Congressmen affiliated with The Family....

Wake up people! Extremist Christian groups have been working for decades to turn our democracy into a theocracy.­....They are a Christian Taliban...­.And they are organized and well funded....

http://www.talk2action.org/user/Bruce%20Wilson

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106115324

[Disciple1]

Another foolish atheist "cause". We have such dire issues in this country to deal with why must the courts give audience to such groups with glaringly transparent motives, i.e., to destroy our republic from within? Can someone give me at least one credible example of ANY atheist's POSITIVE and worthy contribution to this country's sovereignty?

[Tazru]

wataputz

That is all the response you deserve.

[Disciple1]

Your comment simply reinforces what I stated.

[KipRip]

Ah.. Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. Does that work!

[Disciple1]

Sorry, Red Ryder--Thomas Jefferson was a "DEIST" not an atheist. So was Ben Franklin, in case he was next on your list.

[Hirnlego]

Here you are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbef07aQtB8

[Disciple1]

I apologize, but I actually thought you were being humorous by using a video that was concocted by none other than a group that supports ATHEISM! Then I realize you may be serious although the video presumes and offers NO valid study or research theis on its contentions. However, I realize that there will indeed be many lazy lemmings within our species that will soak it all up and embrace empty posturing as "truth".

[GrantedBKNY]

There is nothing foolish about standing up for one's First Amendment rights. Educate yourself and please leave your bible by your bed and in your church (where it is protected by that very same amendment).

Theology and Government don't mix.

[Disciple1]

I am definitely for First Amendment rights. Just not too impressed with diatribe lacking in substance and thought, e.g., "wataputz". You seem to put a premium on "education" (of course, you know nothing of my background) and I presume you are suitably adorned with collegial armament. However, I must correct your notion that the same amendment only protects my use of the Bible while it physically rests in a sanctuary.

[hark]

According to the latest Pew poll on science, 41% of the nation's scientists do not believe in God or a higher power. I'd say it's a stretch that none of them are contributing positively to the nation's "sovereignty," whatever that is supposed to mean. But they certainly are contributing to the nation's welfare, and the world's, too.

Check out the poll at Pew. Was issued last week. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1276/science-survey

I really don't think there is an atheistic conspiracy to destroy our republic from within. Why on earth would they want to do that? Where are you getting your information?

[imfedup]

I looked at your link, and I don't see that 41% figure. Where did you find it? It seems extraordinarily low to me.

[RuinedSaint]

Many christians don't believe in the seperation of church and state...

Bet they'd change their minds if the majority of the population converted to Islam.

[Tazru]

Any other Religion would do, the christians hardly get along with each other.

[RuinedSaint]

That's true... If they managed to abolish the 1st Amendment, we'd get to watch them take to the streets fighting over which Christ Cult is the right one.

[Realitylost]

I get a kick out of that, alot of Christian Denominations in America dont beleive the Catholics count as Christians, and alot of Catholics feel the opposite is true.

[SangZe]

God? A joke, right?

[Realitylost]

God and Religion are just a fiction the ruling class created to control the masses with fear, and you got to them credit it has worked pretty well for a few thousand years. Those guys were bright.

[JulieSA]

Stalin and Mao had more control over their citizens than anybody, which they maintained by ki l ling a huge percentage of them. And they didn't need God to do that. They must have been REALLY bright.

[JulieSA]

Employment discrimination on the basis of one's race, religion, sex, national origin and color became illegal in 1964.

Many people on this thread are way behind the times and think bigotry against religion is just fine.

[KipRip]

Oh by the way. Clarence Thomas doesn't believe the exclusionary clause in the constitution pertains to the states only the federal government. He thinks that the states should be free to mandate a religion. Scary he sits on the Supreme Court.

[KipRip]

My bad...sepa­ration clause not exclusionary.

[hark]

Establishment Clause you mean.

[StayinCivil]

Want to learn more about extremist Christian groups and their agenda to make our democracy into a theocracy? Check out this site "talk2action"

http://www.talk2action.org/user/Bruce%20Wilson

And how there are a growing number of officers in the military that put their religious beliefs above the Constituti­on....Harp­er's Magazine May 2009 by Jeff Sharlet called "Jesus Killed Mohammed"

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

This is not about atheist vs Christian.­...This is about preserving our democracy.

[Tazru]

Rachel Maddow has been helping to break this story. It is scary that this has been going on for so many decades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/14/rachel-maddow-draws-fire_n_231538.html

There was something recently about Palin's church in Wassilla having some sword ceremony for inductees into "Joelś Army" or some such. It seems they are hankering for the good old days of pre-royal theocratic Israel. They think they are ordained to take the planet back by any means necessary. Crusades, here we come.

[StayinCivil]

Go to "talk2action" Bruce Wilson's site. He has written columns here about the Palin connection to these "extremist" Christian groups and their very organized, well funded agenda.
http://www.talk2action.org/user/Bruce%20Wilson

[KipRip]

It's about reason vs irrational beliefs.

"W" believe Iraq has WMDs

Cheney believe torture protected America.

Christians believe being gay is immoral.

None of them can admit what they don't know. I cannot or can anyone else look in to a human being and know for a fact what brings them joy on any level. Convenient to hide behind one's irrational beliefs to judge other especially when the Christian God says to his follower those judgments are mine.

[Hirnlego]

""W" believe Iraq has WMDs"

I doubt this. i think WMD's was something which they all could agree on was a good way of selling the war.

[AtheistUS]

On God we do not trust.

Can we engrave this somewhere please?

[RuinedSaint]

I redact "god" from paper bills and write "Reason" in its place.

[AtheistUS]

Thanks, not a bad simple thing to do, to slightly alleviate the image of extremely religious country.

[Hirnlego]

"[no citizen] shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever­...[to] compell a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of [religious] opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical­."
[Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom]

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." [Thomas Jefferson, February 10, 1814]

[laws establishing freedom of religion].­.."were meant to include within them the Muslim, the Hindoo [sic], and the infidel of any sort." Thomas Jefferson

[Tazru]

Thank You.

Unfortunately it will most likely only influence the people of reason, not people of faith.

[Sensiblebg]

You atheists realize that almost every state mentions G od in their preambles?

[RuinedSaint]

You cultists realize that there is no evidence to support your mythological beliefs?

[Sensiblebg]

Well every state and 75% of the nation would disagree with you.. Youre outnumbere­d.. sorry..

[Realitylost]

But lots of evidence to refute those beliefs.

[Tazru]

bfd

I do not want to live in your theocracy. It is time for the Feudal Era to end, time to join the 21st Century.

[Sensiblebg]

Well you're going to have to move out of the country since you are surrounded by Chr istians..

[Hirnlego]

The bible says something about “Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s and to God what is God’s”

[Secularist]

You realize that means that every state violates the seperation of church and state? It's time for a change.

[Sensiblebg]

Good luck changing 50 preambles.­.

[psa613]

the is no such thing the consttution says
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There is a difference between a freedom of religion and a freedom FROM religion..­. even yours

[Janet Barnes]

Funny, but the Constitution and Bill of rights acknowledge our God given rights. They state that our rights come from god, not privileges granted from government.

That is what separated our document from others and made it so special. The atheists want to cook the goose that laid the golden egg.

If you abolish God, then the state replaces it and you end up with tyranny. Just read history.

[Tazru]

Stop listening to your imaginary friend, and read the documents, and about the history of this pluralist country.

[Sensiblebg]

Well you know these inconvenient facts will not help their agendas..

[dutchman]

That's funny. The Netherlands is as agnostic as a country can be, and our state isn't the least bit tyrannical.

The same goes for pretty much all of Scandinavia, too..

[RuinedSaint]

The Constitution (of which the Bill of Rights is a part) make no reference to any extradimension uber beings.

[dutchman]

EUBs - Love it!

[Hirnlego]

Read the first amendment.

[Carl Caroli]

Religion, or lack thereof, is a very personal and private thing and should be kept that way. We don't need publicly funded endorsements of anyone's beliefs and the founding fathers were very, very clear about that. We are not, as a lot of politicians and religious leaders would have us believe, a Christian nation. We are a secular nation of tolerance and that's were it needs to end. What you pray to (or not) in your home or church is nobodies business, but you have no right to impose your belief on anyone, period. That's what was in the constitution and that's the way it should be.

[Janet Barnes]

The Declaration of Independence mentions the word God and Creator.

Should we ban that document as well?

[Hirnlego]

Its not the constitution. And you cannot create a country based on liberty if state pushes any religion..

[RuinedSaint]

No, it mentions "Nature's God" and "God of Nature"; it's a Deistic reference, generic and ceremonial *at most*.

The Christian Cult needs to deal with reality.

[Secularist]

Also, please be aware that there is not a single reference to Christ. By the way, most of the founding fathers also thought blacks were practically a different species. You're gonna treat everything they wrote as gospel?

[hark]

What has that got to do with the Constitution?

Nobody is banning any documents. The First Amendment prohibits the government from advancing religion, that's all. There is no ban on God. There is a prohibition against the government favoring religion over non religion, or one religion over another. The Supreme Court has ruled this. Therefore, the government can't make proclamations about our trust in God. It's very simple.