Mass 'Kiss-In' Protest At Mormon Temple Leads To Confrontation

SALT LAKE CITY — A mass-kissing protest near the Mormon church temple Sunday drew a shouting match between gay activists and a group of faithful Mormons.

For the second consecutive weekend, about 100 people gathered to stage a "kiss-in" to protest the treatment of two gay men cited for trespassing July 9 after they shared a kiss on the plaza owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Both gay and straight couples exchanged kisses during the protest.

Demonstrators were greeted at the south entrance by a group of protesters carrying large signs that denounced homosexuality, prompting a heated verbal exchange.

Police say no one was arrested or cited, despite a large group exchanging kisses by a reflecting pool at the plaza's center.

"We didn't call the police. We didn't do anything," church spokeswoman Kim Farah said.

The church bought one block of Salt Lake City's Main Street to build a plaza in the 1990s alongside the Temple, where Mormon marriages and other religious rituals take place.

Matt Aune has said he and his partner, Derek Jones, exchanged a modest kiss at the plaza 11 days ago, but church officials contend their behavior was lewd.

"There was much more involved that a simple kiss of the cheek," Farah said in a statement Friday. "They engaged in passionate kissing, groping, profane and lewd language, and had obviously been using alcohol."

The men have said they were walking home from a nearby concert and cutting through the plaza on their way home.

A police report said they sat down for a kiss and were approached by a pair of church security guards, who asked them to leave because their behavior was "unwanted."

Both were handcuffed and Aune was pinned to the ground.

Comments

[AguynamedWayne]

I say stage a Kiss-In EVERY Weekend don't stop make it bigger and bigger each time. Let love lead the way!

[mrrobinson2u]

THat would be the ONLY reason I'd go to that weirdo state.

[breakingpoint]

Is the White House and Pentagon next?

[jcwtts1]

Two basic questions: City property or private property? Why the physicality? Cuffs, from a security guard? Throwing people to the ground? I mean think about how badly this could go. The guards grab them, they resist, a fight ensues and.... anything could happen at that point. Once you introduce physical violence into a situation you lose control of that situation. So they got to guys who were probably stunned to be manhandled. But there was no way of knowing that is what they were going to get. If you have a beef, call the cops, wait for the cops, and let them, as they are trained, handle the situation. By escalating it they made a situation that was pretty routine (that can't be the first time people have kissed there, especially if people cut through) into something that could have gone badly for everyone involved. The churches stance is silly. Their security overstepped their authority, and if it had been any other group they would just say so, cut a check and move on.

J

[dwight2]

private property, the couple knew this (even if they didn't seem to be aware of it for the police report). By the gay couple's own account of the story and the police report they were the ones that escalated things, not to the physical per se, but they responded to being asked to leave quite aggressively.

Since the public is welcome (though not to the point of it being public accommodation like a restaurant or lunch counter) the couple wouldn't really be trespassing until they refused to leave the property. You'll notice that there hasn't been any talk of a lawsuit or charges against the guards, they were operating within the law.

[aftershock]

"By the gay couple's own account of the story and the police report they were the ones that escalated things, not to the physical per se, but they responded to being asked to leave quite aggressively."

Makes no difference, they still had no legal authority to detain the two men despite what you think. And I'm sure the rent-a-cops made NO demeaning comments that would have caused the reaction, no... And why the insistence that the gay couple isn't telling the whole truth, yet you accept every word of the security guards statement like gospel. No they'd NEVER lie either, not those Mormons!

[nick1936]

Look all Cults get up set at folks who don't think the way they do

[imsosure]

Like the IRS, Congress, Federal Reserve, Roman Catholic Church, I could fill this whole comment space and still have more.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

[WhatDaBleep]

Sometimes I believe that -Freedom of Religion should be Abolished!

[Mort]

Any other parts of the Constitution you'd like erased as well?

[Sean Tisdall]

Personally I'd abolish the right to bear arms (2nd), presidential term limits (22nd), the section of the 13th amendment that has allowed prisons to become workhouses instead of the original purpose of making restitution, and age and nativist restrictions on serving in congress or as president (articles 1 and 2). Oh, and the part of the 14th amendment that somehow applies to corporations and the professional class but not those that actually need its protections.

Further I'd like to see the ERA and DC Voting rights amendments passed.

So I hope that answers your question/hyperbolic-argument Mort.

[hardcorelib]

No - but the Mormons have sure erased the part about equality for all Americans now haven't they?

[walleymr]

it'd be better if people realized freedom of religion also means freedom from religion

[Klad InVermont]

Not freedom of religion, just their tax-exempt status, that would stop all this meddling in politics and shut them up!

[PWM]

Of course it would.

[Lyr]

No it wouldn't, it would encourage more political activity of churches.

[Godweiser]

I have to admit, I find the whole idea that people can get their all-aflutter about a couple of guys kissing to be more than a little irrelevant, in the objective view of thing, and vaguely disturbing.

I mean, there are things out there that rightfully disturb the heck out of people and leave spots that just don't come out. Being shot at, shooting back, seeing the poverty and squalor that some people live in first hand, things that make you question that nature of humanity.

And then there are the sort of people who obsess over a little bit of tongue who could care less about all of the above so long as men aren't holding hands. That makes you question the sanity of a society, be it the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, The Islamic Republic of Iran or the United States of America.

[dakotawoman]

With Mormons its their cosmology. They honestly believe that men and women must marrry and procreate in order to get into the "best" of their three heavens and ultimately evolving into "gods" themselves. Their children are their worshippers, and then they too will evolve into "gods" etc. etc. Homosexuality has NO place in this cosmology and so ANY evidence of it offends not only their personal homophobia but their idea of the purpose of life. Gays expressing affection is too much for them because it shakes their worldview, not just their private prejudices.

[hardcorelib]

As an ex-Mormon - I have to say dakotawoman nailed it!

[Godweiser]

I was thinking of the other denominations and just regular ole homophobes, too, but yeah...I didn't know quite that much about the Mormon faith.

Very self-congratulatory. It seems to be a feature of American religion that everyone's automatically saved and thus don't have to self-correct, fear or question their own acts. Or at least, that is the end result of such much smug superiority on their part.

[mrrobinson2u]

So they can fully believe that screwball case of a fairy tale and get tax free status...while two living, adult human beings cannot show legitimate affection for each other on earth, in the here and now, in REALITY and the fairy-tale believing Mormons are not the problem here? LOL....unbelievable.

[NoSillyName]

Bingo!

[SonnyBono]

Ah, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - why back in the day, the official church line was to accept and promote plural marriage as in polygamy but then the Saints wanted to join the Union so they got another flash message from their prophet - no more multiple wives (well except for "Big Love" and some other segments of their faith). Same thing with the Church view towards Blacks - when the heat started to affect the revenue stream, the sitting prophet got another one of those text messages from god.

The Mormons will change their views on gays when the publicity starts to effect the collection plate but until then they will cling to their worn out prejudices as stated in their "magic" book.

[barrycourage]

This is just a typical organized orthodox religion imposing its belief system on others.

The LDS might "own" the plaza. However, there has been enough public access to it that it could be legally determined to be a "right of way" or an "easement."

The LDS evidently has more power and influence over the entire state of Utah than its elected governments.

It would be a great step for church-state separation if the courts would rule that the LDS is on LSD when it comes to their "ownership" of propety de facto given to the public.

[ghurley09]

I'm disappointing about this.... Disappointing by the gay activist really... I'm gay myself and a strict non-believer, however I have made it a lifes point to be respectful of all religions (Except Scientolgy) , and most religions have things against homosexuality and as much as I believe there entire lifes belief system is wrong and want vocalize that , I don't because I remember that they think the same of me and you gain respect by giving it.... Of coarse the Morman church didnt like the same-sex kiss but what would have them do? Throw out there deepest convictions and beliefs just to please the people who say there life is wrong? Some people think homosexuality is wrong but does that mean homosexuals have to stop being gay to please?..

I would understand all the fuss if this happened on a city street or in a Store, but no this was a Plaza OWNED by the Mormon Church...

Now I'm pretty sleepy and my arguments may be a little off at the moment so I'll go ahead and end on this: Gays deserve the right to live, love, marry, and raise a family....But the church also deserves the right to think its wrong...

[juanchopancho]

All hail Xenu!

[AlexFTW]

Owned by the church, their private property. Fine, ok. No problem with that. But then make them PAY TAXES like any other property owner. As far as I'm concerned any church or religious organization is simply a business. And they have gotten away with far too much for far too long.

[dakotawoman]

Exactly!

Those churches which attempt to force public policy and exploit the Bill of Rights to protect hate speech should lose their tax exemptions. It's just that simple.

Freedom of religion has never meant freedom to override the federal government, nor to promote hatred, violence and oppression. Yeah, religion has done all of those things over the years, but since society is evolving better, more humane ethics, we can now apply the benefits of our democracy to ALL individuals, instead of only to those who conform to outdated, parochial superstitions.

[hardcorelib]

Respectful of all religions - even as they are persecuting you and making you a second class citizen in your own country? Like I said before - respect is a TWO WAY st. - When the Mormons respect my civil rights as a tax-paying American and stop SHOVING their religion down MY throat - then I may respect them. Never respect hate!

[hardcorelib]

THey can think it is wrong all they want - just keep the hell off of my civil rights or expect a BACKLASH!

[dct1999]

It this the 21st century or the 19th century?

[Montgriz]

It will always be th e19th Century in Utah....

[Godweiser]

I gotta admit, I find the whole idea that people can get their panties knotted about a couple of guys kissing to be very quaint and vaguely disturbing.

I mean, there are things out there that rightfully disturb the heck out of people and leave spots that just don't come out. Being shot at, shooting back, seeing the poverty and filth that some people live in first hands, things that make you question that nature of humanity.

And then there are the sort of people who obsess over a little bit of tongue who could care less about all of the above so long as men aren't holding hands. That makes you question the sanity of society.

[Conservador-Rebelde]

All those I've had discussions with, I'm off to bed.

Adeus.

[Green-Zanto]

Do people defending the Mormon cultists, or people opposed to homosexuality in general, really believe that you have any hope of ultimately prevailing in this cultural issue?

For decades, every generation has been increasingly tolerant and accepting of homosexuality. The majority of young voters, people my age, approve of gay marriage already. This shows the generation gaps involved. As I've said a few times tonight, I honestly don't know a single person my own age who is opposed to gay marriage or who has any problem with gay people. This may be different in the deep south and in theocratic Utah, but overall my generation already supports gay marriage. The numbers are there.

The next generation is going to be more tolerant, the next more tolerant, etc. It's really only a matter of time, as the next generations reach voting age, until your side is the minority. Already, your majority is a slim one at best. As younger people reach voting age, your side is going to be finished. It's inevitable.

Do you really not see the writing on the wall? Do you really think you are somehow going to stall and reverse cultural progress? No civil rights struggle in the entire history of America has ever been lost. Do you honestly believe that gay marriage won't be legalized within your lifetime? Really?

[madtom]

Cultists like this live on their own planet. I only wish it were not the rest of us also inhabit.

Ever hear the story about St. Peter giving the new arrival a tour of Heaven?

"Who's that partying behind the wall over there?"

"Oh, they're the fundamentalists. They think they're the only ones here".

[Disuberence]

All you need to do is ask two simple things.


1) How did Koalas get on Noah's Ark? (or as someone mentioned yesterday, tapeworms)

2) How do you feel about State of New York vs Joseph Smith?

[Mort]

You keep mentioning this court case and his supposed confession, yet you have no links to documentation. There isn't any! He was falsely accused of many things and dragged to court over some of them, yet there is no record of any confession, guilty plea or conviction.

Your whole premise hinges on Joseph's name appearing on two obscure lists, followed by glass looker, and the stories some have spread about him. Unless you have something concrete that documents what you say, you're just spreading cheap gossip.

[Godweiser]

Of course they see the writing on the wall. That's why they're fighting like the Russians are about to take Berlin.

[madtom]

Nice image -- Mormons defending their Berlin against the Russians.

[Khirad]

I grew up in a Mormon area, my High School had an LDS seminary next to it (which the Mormons would attend during their free periods - yes, they organized it) - and I wrote a scathing letter in my school newspaper. Caused quite a stir. in a later article after I'd been invited onto the staff, my cohorts and I identified it as the 'LSD' Church in a "typo".

I agree with most of what you say, yet I, someone who caught myself laughing at a missionary take a spill on their bike, don't agree with the term "cult." It is loaded, and used most often by Protestant denominations and especially Evangelicals towards Mormons (the hypocrisy of them being critical). It actually fits more criteria than most mainstream religious organizations, but not quite to the level of Scientology or other groups.

Also, I knew a few very progressive Mormons (I know, made absolutely no sense to me either), who didn't much care what the Elders said in Salt Lake City. As for me. I've visited Temple Square and taken the tour. One of the creepiest experiences ever. Hear, hear for these demonstrators!

[Khirad]

Forgive my actual typos. Ugh.

[Bafun]

Progressive mormons vote democrat!! +8.7 % from 2004 to 2008!!!! yeah... but still a long long way...

[charlot]

All religions are cults. The only thing that differentiates them in a mainstream sense is the number of people who follow them and the amount of money involved. But in the sense that they are businesses with the purpose of controlling people, they are all cults.

[Bafun]

I am a "little bit " older than your generation and I support gay marriage. As you point out it's inevitable and just a question of time and I hope so.
Unfortunately, to be honest, not only the LDS is against gay rights. ALL the religions are. It is the only reason why the last step is still not done.

[IzzyIdol]

All religious and all clergy do not oppose gay rights. My Friends Meeting has had several gay weddings.

[XCITIZEN]

FLAG AS ABUSIVE:

macintoshsauce stated in this thread:

"Yes, please gag me with a spoon if I see gays kissing on my front lawn. I will have to pull out the ol' rifle if that happens."

PLEASE FLAG COMMENTS BY THIS PERSON AS ABUSIVE

[Godweiser]

That says a lot more for his psychological 'issues' than it does for anything else.

[Khirad]

Wow. Will do.

[Bafun]

Utah is a theocracy.

Govervor Huntsman was the best of Utah .....and President Obama sent him to China!

http://www.365gay.com/news/utahs-gay-community-honors-gov-jon-huntsman/

[Khirad]

Utah? No, Deseret.

[mrrobinson2u]

Not one of their other PLANETS??? I think this administration needs some representation on at least ONE of the Mormon planets...

[mikesw]

"A police report said they sat down for a kiss and were approached by a pair of church security guards, who asked them to leave because their behavior was "unwanted." Both were handcuffed and Aune was pinned to the ground."

Sounds like the problem is some over-eager rent-a-cops. Hope they were fired.