Russians Still Skeptical About U.S. Moon Landing

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JIM HEINTZ | 07/19/09 02:01 PM | AP

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FILE - In this July 20, 1969 file photo, Astronaut Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin Jr. poses for a photograph beside the U.S. flag deployed on the moon during the Apollo 11 mission. (AP Photo/Neil Armstrong, NASA, file)

MOSCOW — When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the surface of the moon, it was a first for the Soviet Union – the first time the U.S. had beaten the U.S.S.R in the space race. Forty years later, the memory of that loss of primacy still seems to sting the Russian soul. When state TV channel Rossiya reported last week on the restoration of video footage of the Apollo 11 moon landing, the account gave a lot of attention to dubious conspiracy theories that the landing was faked.

"In the United States, more than anywhere else, they are sure of the believability of the steps on the moon," the report said, adding that Armstrong keeps a very low profile. "This also seems strange to many people."

For a dozen years before the July 20, 1969, moon landing, Moscow racked up an extraordinary array of superlatives. It was the first to send a craft into orbit, with the Sputnik satellite in 1957. The first human to go into outer space was Russian Yuri Gagarin in 1961. Moscow sent the woman into space, Valentina Tereshkova in 1963; and Alexei Leonov was the first person to venture outside a spacecraft into the endless cosmos, in 1965.

Russia even got to the moon first when the unmanned Luna 2 crashed in 1959. But the drama of the first human footprint on an extraterrestrial body eclipsed everything the Soviets had worked so hard to achieve.

"Beginning with the first flight with a primitive capsule, and then getting to the moon, it was a great achievement for humanity," Russian astronaut Sergei Krikalev said.

"Of course, we would have liked to see the first man on the moon be Soviet, Russian, but that's life ... Our own achievements were very many," he told Associated Press Television News.

In the 40 years since the Apollo 11 landing, the USSR and Russia, which inherited the Soviet legacy, shot ahead of the United States occasionally only to fall further behind.

The Soviet Union put the first space station into orbit with the Salyut 1 in 1971. However, the first crew couldn't get aboard because of docking problems. Another three-man crew later got aboard, but died when a valve failed on the capsule bringing them back to Earth.

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Then there was the Mir -- the first space station fit for long-term habitation. It achieved early glory. But that quickly faded after 1991, when the Soviet collapse choked off funding for the space program and the Mir suffered a series of accidents, including a collision and fires that tuned it into a symbol of danger and decay.

Earthlings scanned the sky nervously on the day in 2001 when the 140-ton craft plunged to its fiery end. Luckily, it landed in the Pacific Ocean.

In recent years, Russia's space program has earned as a workhorse rather than a racehorse – reliable, cooperative, even stolid.

Its cramped Soyuz manned capsules and unmanned Progress cargo ships had already served as the lifeline to the International Space Station for more than two years when the United States grounded its space shuttles in 2003, after the Columbia disintegrated on re-entry. The Russian space program will once again be the gatekeepers to the orbiting laboratory in 2010, when the shuttle fleet is grounded for good.

That doesn't mean Russia has lost its ambitions for primacy in space.

The U.S. is busy planning to replace the shuttles. But last year, Russia awarded contracts for design of its own next-generation spaceship to replace the Soyuz. The competing efforts could trigger a new space race.

Russian space officials meanwhile still seem to be dreaming about winning the next stage of the space race.

They keep talk in tantalizing terms about mounting a manned mission to Mars, although they say that would take at least another 20 years to get off the ground.

"I think this is fine. It's like sports – at one stage one person wins, at another it's somebody else," said Krikalev.

___

APTN producer Vika Buravchenko in Moscow contributed to this report.

MOSCOW — When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the surface of the moon, it was a first for the Soviet Union – the first time the U.S. had beaten the U.S.S.R in the space race. Forty years later...
MOSCOW — When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the surface of the moon, it was a first for the Soviet Union – the first time the U.S. had beaten the U.S.S.R in the space race. Forty years later...
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Sorry, the previous link to the lunar sample comparison was off by one letter. it should be:

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/BCC9601new.html

And the main website is:

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 07/20/2009
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For those of you who do not believe we landed on the Moon. OK. NASA is less than forthright and does censor when politically necessary. But we did land on the Moon at least one time possibly more. The way we know is by examining published material composition data and comparing it to known lunar meteorite samples. The Proceedings of the Conference on the Lunar Highlands Crust, held in Houston Texas November 14-16, 1979, covered materials purportedly brought back by the Astronauts. The 505 page book has a chapter beginning on page 271-Lunar highland melt rocks: Chemistry, petrology and silicate mineralogy, by D.T. Vaniman and J.J. Papike. Page 276 and 277 covers lunar gabbroic examination major oxide concentration based on Low-An and High-An. It is not by sheer coincidence that the sample on the links below discovered in 1998-2002, is in good agreement with data published on materials retrieved from the Moon. It's a perfect mineralogical match to within a percent or two at the microscopic level. So no they did not fake the landing(s).

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/BCC9601new.htm
http://www.bccmeteorites.com/bcc9601photo.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 07/20/2009

OK, a question for people in the know. Why does the flag seem to ripple in the wind in this photo? The moon doesn't have an atmosphere and there is no wind there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 07/20/2009
- yakaria I'm a Fan of yakaria 16 fans permalink
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Wathch mythbusters. The astronaut was putting the pole in the dirt and the flag moved. Since there was no gravity it need more time to come to a stop. An object in motion stays in motion. QED.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 PM on 07/20/2009

You already know the answer. Flag "seems" to ripple. "Seems"... see? The flag is crinkled, and being held up by a horizontal pole so it doesn't droop. So you're perfectly correct. There is no wind on the moon, yet it "seems" to be rippling, because it's crinkled. Well done, now answer yourself another question.. it'll get easier as you go, just keep practising.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 07/21/2009
- DustinTime I'm a Fan of DustinTime 41 fans permalink

Okay... but the following recently revealed information is, I have to say, just a little too problematic for common sense comfort (and rather curiously, as far as I'm aware, hasn't been noted here or in many other media outlets despite being a bombshell on its face):

"By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer Seth Borenstein, Ap Science Writer – Thu Jul 16, 7:11 pm
WASHINGTON – NASA could put a man on the moon but didn't have the sense to keep the original video of the live TV transmission.

In an embarrassing acknowledgment, the space agency said Thursday that it must have erased the Apollo 11 moon footage years ago so that it could reuse the videotape."

Now hold on. NASA has been budgeted for how many trillions upon trillions over the years? Including millions upon hundreds of millions used merely for documenting and promoting their accomplishments. And yet... they're now telling us with a straight face that they casually destroyed what was, in the worlds of historian Douglas Brinkley, "perhaps the most important historical footage of the 20th century" in order to save a few bucks?!

What?

Smithsonian Institution space curator Roger Launius, a former NASA chief historian, said the loss of the original video "doesn't surprise me that much."

Why not? As a stunned Brinkley concludes, it's "mind-boggling that the tapes just disappeared."

To say the very least, folks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_sc/us_sci_moon_video

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 07/20/2009
- yakaria I'm a Fan of yakaria 16 fans permalink
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Come on Russia. Just accept that America landed on the moon. We made the greatest achievement of mankind and not you. Get over yourselves. USA! USA! USA!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 AM on 07/20/2009
- Tazru I'm a Fan of Tazru 65 fans permalink
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Get over yourself.

What good have we done since? I remember a lot of blowing things up, but not much in the way of positive achievement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 07/20/2009
- prog I'm a Fan of prog 13 fans permalink
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It was a near thing, and we got there with chewing gum and string, but we DID land on the moon. My father was involved in the effort. I agree that it's been downhill from there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/20/2009
- Ira7 I'm a Fan of Ira7 9 fans permalink

We didn't win that Olympics hockey game either:

The Russians just let us win so we wouldn't boycott the upcoming Moscow games.

Get real, people--we landed on the moon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 AM on 07/20/2009
- bluerednot I'm a Fan of bluerednot 5 fans permalink

Have to laugh at all of this - You know it might be possible to pull off a hoax once, but - There were six moon landings (Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17) - and there have been 12 astronauts to walk on the moon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 07/20/2009

Well there you go, a moon hoax conspiracy theory conspiracy. 40 years later and the US press is still using the moon landings as an anti-russian propaganda ploy. 50% of Fox News viewers, 25% in the UK, 40% of Swedish vodka consumers, 90% of ron paul supporters believe it was a hoax

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 AM on 07/20/2009
- whoa20 I'm a Fan of whoa20 12 fans permalink
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can Russia just accept we won the Cold War, and that America rules?! We were right, they were wrong!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 AM on 07/20/2009
- netzwerg I'm a Fan of netzwerg 7 fans permalink
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America is broke, thats not what a "winner" looks like.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 AM on 07/20/2009
- whoa20 I'm a Fan of whoa20 12 fans permalink
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so is Russia, now their oil prices are down. We rule, Russia drools. Get. over .it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 07/20/2009

It has to be pointed that right here in America,many prominent scientists are still skeptical about the man in the moon story. The video evidence has so many discrepancies and NASSA wont let them look in to it closely. For example the flag flying in a wavery fashion as if there was breez in the moon .

I may not be scientific myself,but it strikes me as bizarre that its still classified the Apollo mission. No one is allowed to look in to it more closely. Also knowing how America likes showing off with even small things like a marine who disarmed a land mine,to have kept Neil Amstrong away from the press for from being interviewed about his mission is just damn right strange.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 AM on 07/20/2009
- Sensiblebg I'm a Fan of Sensiblebg 29 fans permalink

The Mythbusters actually did an episode to disproving the landing and they found evidence that they did in fact land there including certain things that were left on the moon that can still be detected by satellites..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 AM on 07/20/2009
- prog I'm a Fan of prog 13 fans permalink
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Yeah, that's something no one ever mentions -- that these ARTIFACTS of our landing on the moon are there.

Would all of the "Moon conspiracy" people please work on finding Nessie or Sasquatch instead?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 07/20/2009
- jamiso I'm a Fan of jamiso 7 fans permalink

"many prominent scientists are still skeptical about the man in the moon story. "

name some.....We'll wait

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 AM on 07/20/2009
- prog I'm a Fan of prog 13 fans permalink
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What prominent scientists (names and affiliations, please?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 07/20/2009

a) It's "NASA"
b) The flag is not waving, it's crinkled and being held up by a horizontal pole. It just looks like it's waving, the same way my undies get a bit stiff and wavy after 3 or 4 days.
c) Where is this story about NASA not letting scientists see their tapes? Proof, please.
d) "No one is allowed to look in to it more closely." - um, many scientists from many other countries have literally pored over masses of information gained from the moon landings. Where is your proof that "no one is allowed to look in to it"?
e) Neil and Buzz do what they want, like all people. If you were an old man and done your share of interviews over the past 40 years, I'm sure you'd like some peace too. You don't see Dawn Wells walking down the street much, but that doesn't mean she wasn't se*y as hell on Gilligans Island.
f) No point trying to convince you, as anyone who really wants to believe something will believe it no matter what. If you choose to believe it didn't happen, that's cool. But it must be hard work trying to fight facts and common sense with nothing but baseless stories of flapping flags and unusual shadows.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 07/21/2009
- Sensiblebg I'm a Fan of Sensiblebg 29 fans permalink

Who cares what the Russians think?? Sour grapes much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 AM on 07/20/2009
- KCFreedom I'm a Fan of KCFreedom 16 fans permalink

Hmmm...

This is coming from the guys who copied our space shuttle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 AM on 07/20/2009
- ram1952 I'm a Fan of ram1952 22 fans permalink
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As an Indian, I believe and deeply appreciate the American feat of landing man on moon. Some people, elsewhere and even in America don't believe that, and their opinions do not change the facts. Officially, the Russians have never expressed their cynicism about the American achievement, which is enough to put to rest any speculation. Having said that, I also appreciate the cynicism and questioning based on scientific reasoning.

The Russians' achievements in space exploration and the technologies they have developed are as good if not better than that of the Americans. Their pioneering in rocketry has laid the basis for space exploration. Other countries, including the Europeans, Chinese and my own country, far behind them four decades ago, are now catching up. What is now urgently needed is genuine international cooperation for space exploration for mankind's good.

Thumping chests about achievements in the past are laughable. What some of the macho rednecks posting here should worry is that there has not been much work done in the U.S. since that amazing day forty years ago. Instead of exploring new worlds, and developing new mankind-friendly technologies (like teflon), the U.S.set about behaving like Genghis Khan and destroying other countries. Science sceptics took over and ruled the U.S. It is time, there is an exciting race for space science development and new space discoveries rather than dreaming about "bomb, bomb, Iran..."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 07/20/2009
- Tazru I'm a Fan of Tazru 65 fans permalink
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Very well said, great post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 AM on 07/20/2009
- Lefty83 I'm a Fan of Lefty83 5 fans permalink
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Of course they are!!! When we landed on the moon, we won the space race. Sour grapes 40 years on!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 AM on 07/20/2009
- Tuckerndfw I'm a Fan of Tuckerndfw 100 fans permalink

Maybe someday, someone will actually land on the moon and locate the flag left there by our astronauts.

Or, maybe not.

I don't know whether thay landed on the moon, but it makes for a good story and was outstanding propaganda at the time (nation going broke, race riots, Vietnam fiasco, etc.).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 07/20/2009
- Tazru I'm a Fan of Tazru 65 fans permalink
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Would you even believe it happened IF we went back to the same spot again, just to prove to a few people that it actually happened?

I was alive then, it would have taken at least as many resources to fake that landing as to actually do it. Why did we go back so many times? Did we fake those too?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 07/20/2009
- prog I'm a Fan of prog 13 fans permalink
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You can actually see artifacts of our landings on the Moon; feeble

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 07/20/2009
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